The gospel in Genesis.

Of course God’s word is active and alive Joe, I agree.
your just using the passage out of context imo.

Good I’m glad you agree here, as I thought you would.



That’s what we are told to preach, why wouldn’t we?

Of course. And God talks to His people through the word.

We were born again be the Holy Spirit as Jesus taught. When the new heart hears the word, he believes.

Depends on what passages your using actually. When Jesus said, I lay down my life for the sheep, that wasn’t to the reprobate, although they may here it.

Joe, read it in context, for what it says, try not to let your theology seep in.

No one is hidden from His sight, He’s God. And yes the reprobate are accountable. But again Joe, that’s not the context.

The ones that listened were God’s sheep obviously.

Scripture says so.

Your trying to say prevenient grace is scriptural.



Of course. And it is expressing who God is.



I don’t disagree.

Why do you keep stressing this? I never said it was. 🤔

I’ll pass on this for now.

Well at least your changing your story.
I agree with that.

Joe, I’m not concerned with ending the debate. I don’t really see a debate. I just stated some facts and you can agree or disagree.
If you would like to keep discussing this, I’m fine with that also
Ask him, if God's word is alive and active in everyone. Why do people reject it while others trust and believe it.
 
Ask him, if God's word is alive and active in everyone. Why do people reject it while others trust and believe it.
They chose to

2 Thessalonians 2:10 (ESV)
10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
 
Ask him, if God's word is alive and active in everyone. Why do people reject it while others trust and believe it.
So you are saying God's Word is dead and inactive at times. Interesting. That is not true of course, but you can continue to believe such an error if you like.

So is God's Word alive and active all the time or just sometimes?...I'll answer for you since you will not. God's Word is always alive and active. Always! No matter what, always! No matter if it goes into an unbelieving heart, God's Word still is alive and active, exposing the thoughts and intents of the heart.

And to answer your question, the same one that has been answered before multiple times, people reject while others believe because they refuse the truth...It's in the bible brother.

God bless
 
To be a Calvinist I would have to believe that God is unjust condemning people to hell for His own good pleasure.
What does for His own good pleasure mean to someone like you.
You think it is an earthly pleasure you delight in do you?

If that is how you view God and His scriptures then you are far away from Him.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

Do you suppose God experienced some kind of delight when all the first born of Egypt were killed..

You are shouting injustice.....
Paul says there is no injustice!
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!

So tell us after your rant, those who go to hell, did God choose to have mercy and compassion on them? The answer is of course not.
You can then shout, but it is because they chose not to believe and not because God did not choose to save them. The answer of course is that it does not depend on human free will choices nor exertion but on God who has mercy.

Why do you not believe the Bible and claim you follow only what is taught by Jesus and Paul?
 
Brother, I have not changed my story. You are now beginning to realize what I meant after I responded to your posts. You are not there yet.
Joe, I have no desire to go over the points discussed since we started this discussion again and again. If you want to believe that the passage in Hebrews was written to everyone including the unbelievers and reprobate, I’m fine with that. I still stand on what I said.
And God does not only communicate to believers as you suggested. He talks to ALL people, believers and unbelievers alike.
Since you insist on this point, and I’m not saying, your wrong Joe, then show me a passage where it teaches such. I believe He will talk to all people, judgement is coming and there is divine providence. But scripture, is written to believers. When the words brethren, loved of God, chosen are used its even more obvious.

And I will answer the question asked of you; God's Word is never dead nor inactive.
Are you mixing me up with someone else? Why do you insist on repeating yourself here? When did I say it was? This is a good hump for you to get over before we proceed, if proceeding is your intention.
That ends the debate.
If your argument is God’s word being alive and active then there never was a debate. Maybe your debating with yourself? If you read my posts you would see I don’t disagree with this point.
12-13 is universal in application, in that no matter who you are or your salvation status, God's Word when preached will invoke a response because it is living and active, exposing the thoughts and intent of the heart.
And you continue to stress your point. Every believe would agree God’s word is alive and active. But the passage you picked is to believers. It is not to unbelievers. Again, read Hebrews in context, start at ch 3 concerning the point your trying to prove. I’ll start you out:

Hebrews 3:1,
Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession,


And that is why we preach it, as I originally said which sparked you to debate. You argued it was for believers only, and it is not.
I believe two things are happening here Joe.
1) your missing my point. Since you are a free willer, I can understand why you would be stressing certain points.
2) I understand why you are so persistent. It’s another avenue where free willers, at least the thinkers like yourself, believe they can set the grounds for prevenient grace.
I hope you understand and agree with the Apostle Peter that you were "born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever."
Thanks Joe, yes I do. But read 1 Peter again Joe. Your missing the whole point of it. The gospel is the power of salvation …… Which is to be proclaimed to the world.
The believers are taught, warned and built up by the word of God throughout scripture, it’s one reason scripture was written.
I have adequately proven that God's Word is alive and active no matter one's status of salvation.
No one denies that Joe.
And that because it is such, it will invoke a response one way or another within the hearer, belief or unbelief. And we are to preach it indiscriminately so all can hear and perhaps believe.
Do you think scripture that points out to who it is written to don’t mean what it says? There are just to many places to quote. But here is one:
1 Peter 1:1,
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Would you show me how this is written to unbelievers as well?

Thank you for the civil discourse. It can get ugly on the board once in while!

God bless
Yes it can get ugly. And thank you as well.
 
What does for His own good pleasure mean to someone like you.
You think it is an earthly pleasure you delight in do you?

If that is how you view God and His scriptures then you are far away from Him.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

Do you suppose God experienced some kind of delight when all the first born of Egypt were killed..

You are shouting injustice.....
Paul says there is no injustice!
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!

So tell us after your rant, those who go to hell, did God choose to have mercy and compassion on them? The answer is of course not.
You can then shout, but it is because they chose not to believe and not because God did not choose to save them. The answer of course is that it does not depend on human free will choices nor exertion but on God who has mercy.

Why do you not believe the Bible and claim you follow only what is taught by Jesus and Paul?
I don’t ignore what Jesus and Paul taught to follow men who claim to follow Christ and ignore what He taught. The point was that God is never unjust in anything He does. Everyone that ends up in hell had the same gift ( salvation) offered to them as those who end up in heaven. Is it God’s fault men reject God ? I believe all of the Bible not just the parts that support false doctrines and beliefs. Scripture says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish so what does that mean to you ? If someone goes to hell that is not God’s fault because He provided a way for them NOT to be condemned to hell.
 
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I don’t ignore what Jesus and Paul taught to follow men who claim to follow Christ and ignore what He taught. The point was that God is never unjust in anything He does. Everyone that ends up in hell had the same gift ( salvation) offered to them as those who end up in heaven. Is it God’s fault men reject God ? I believe all of the Bible not just the parts that support false doctrines and beliefs. Scripture says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish so what does that mean to you ? If someone goes to hell that is not God’s fault because He provided a way for them NOT to be condemned to hell.
Like civic says. Burger King theology. Have it your way. 😎
 
I don’t ignore what Jesus and Paul taught to follow men who claim to follow Christ and ignore what He taught. The point was that God is never unjust in anything He does. Everyone that ends up in hell had the same gift ( salvation) offered to them as those who end up in heaven. Is it God’s fault men reject God ? I believe all of the Bible not just the parts that support false doctrines and beliefs. Scripture says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish so what does that mean to you ? If someone goes to hell that is not God’s fault because He provided a way for them NOT to be condemned to hell.
Amen

Some however seem to be threatened by such truth
 
Amen

Some however seem to be threatened by such truth
Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth. I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
 
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Taking our eyes off the prize (Jesus) and placing them on another creates a false sense of self worth and a whole host of errors taught as truth. I will continue to love, follow, and point others to Jesus because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Amen
 
I don’t ignore what Jesus and Paul taught to follow men who claim to follow Christ and ignore what He taught. The point was that God is never unjust in anything He does.
So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?
Everyone that ends up in hell had the same gift ( salvation) offered to them as those who end up in heaven. Is it God’s fault men reject God ?
You tell me if Paul teaches that this is offered to all men:
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Paul says there is no injustice in this on God's part.
Yet you protest.
Tell me, is it true that God makes vessels for destruction or not? Or perhaps that does not fit with your image of God, the image you have created in your mind.

I believe all of the Bible not just the parts that support false doctrines and beliefs.
You believe the Bible contains false doctrines and beliefs, and presume you somehow have perfect knowledge.
Prove to me that God does not make vessels for destruction and that it ultimately will glorify Him.

God does everything for His good and perfect will. He is sovereign over ALL things.
Scripture says God is long suffering not willing that any should perish so what does that mean to you ?
First of all, you quote half a verse.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Peter is talking with believers regarding the return of Christ and why it is taking long.
Not all that God will save had been saved by the time this was written and it applies today. He will return when all the elect are saved.

If someone goes to hell that is not God’s fault because He provided a way for them NOT to be condemned to hell.
I know you believe contrary to scripture and Paul's teaching that God creates vessels for destruction.
That is on you.

Mal 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob's brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
Mal 1:3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
Mal 1:4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’”
Mal 1:5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the LORD beyond the border of Israel!”

Children of promise vs children of the flesh.
They try and build, but God tears them down. And as per verse 15, God is glorified.

And leatherneck0311 raises his fist and shouts INJUSTICE!
 
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So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?

Maybe because Calvinist 's

5. Certain cavils against the doctrine. 1. Prescience regarded as the cause of predestination. Prescience and predestination explained. Not prescience, but the good pleasure of God the cause of predestination.

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. All are not created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death

John Calvin and Henry Beveridge, Institutes of the Christian Religion (Edinburgh: The Calvin Translation Society, 1845), 534.

Furthermore, they are all united in believing that reprobation (or at least some aspect of it) is not based on foreseen sin but is based solely on God’s good pleasure, for the purpose of magnifying his justice toward the reprobate and His grace toward the elect. The gospel coalition
 
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So why do you claim people assert that God takes some sort of delight in people going to hell, when no one says such?
Did you make that up in your mind or what?

You tell me if Paul teaches that this is offered to all men:
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Paul says there is no injustice in this on God's part.
Yet you protest.
Tell me, is it true that God makes vessels for destruction or not? Or perhaps that does not fit with your image of God, the image you have created in your mind.


You believe the Bible contains false doctrines and beliefs, and presume you somehow have perfect knowledge.
Prove to me that God does not make vessels for destruction and that it ultimately will glorify Him.

God does everything for His good and perfect will. He is sovereign over ALL things.

First of all, you quote half a verse.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Peter is talking with believers regarding the return of Christ and why it is taking long.
Not all that God will save had been saved by the time this was written and it applies today. He will return when all the elect are saved.


I know you believe contrary to scripture and Paul's teaching that God creates vessels for destruction.
That is on you.

Mal 1:2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob's brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
Mal 1:3 but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
Mal 1:4 If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’”
Mal 1:5 Your own eyes shall see this, and you shall say, “Great is the LORD beyond the border of Israel!”

Children of promise vs children of the flesh.
They try and build, but God tears them down. And as per verse 15, God is glorified.

And leatherneck0311 raises his fist and shouts INJUSTICE!
So You believe Jesus lied in John 3;16 when He said,” for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have ever lasting life” ? God is not the author of confusion and there were times God predetermined outcomes so does those predetermined events make null and void what Jesus taught in John 3:16 ? You have made scripture contradict itself and it doesn’t. God predetermined the events and prophecies concerning Jesus’ birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection do you believe that was a one time event or do you suppose because God acted the way He did concerning Jesus will be repeated over and over and over ? I do not place God in the box that many have basically thinking they know exactly what God has to do based on their finite reasoning. God is bigger than any box men repeatedly try to put Him in.
 
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So You believe Jesus lied in John 3;16 when He said,” for God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes shall not perish but have ever lasting life” ? God is not the author of confusion and there were times God predetermined outcomes so does those predetermined events make null and void what Jesus taught in John 3:16 ? You have made scripture contradict itself and it doesn’t. God predetermined the events and prophecies concerning Jesus’ birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection do you believe that was a one time event or do you suppose because God acted the way He did concerning Jesus will be repeated over and over and over ? I do not place God in the box that many have basically thinking they know exactly what God has to do based on their finite reasoning. God is bigger than any box men repeatedly try to put Him in.
🤣😂😂🤣🤣
 
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