Who came up with the idea that Mormons have to earn eternal life?

It is God's choice to regenerate sinners who otherwise would not believe. It is God's choice to save the elect.

Joshua 24:15
15
Now if you are unwilling to serve the Lord, choose this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served in the region beyond the River or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living, but as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”


Isaiah 58:5
5 Is such the fast that I choose,
a day to humble oneself?
Is it to bow down the head like a bulrush
and to lie in sackcloth and ashes?
Will you call this a fast,
a day acceptable to the Lord?


Matthew 23:37
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!


 

Janice Bower you still haven’t addressed the specific verses that I cited. Here they are again:

James 1:18
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

1. “…give us birth…”
2. “…through the word of truth…”

1 Timothy 1:16
16
But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

1. “…those who would believe in him…”
2. “…receive eternal life.”

Do these verses say that we have to be regenerated first before we receive faith or that we choose to listen to the word of truth and believe in him to receive eternal life?


 
Romans 10:17
17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.
Psalm 116:2
2 Because he inclined his ear to me,
therefore I will call on him as long as I live.

 
Natural Man
Guide to the Scriptures
A person who chooses to be influenced by the passions, desires, appetites, and senses of the flesh rather than by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Such a person can comprehend physical things but not spiritual things. All people are carnal, or mortal, because of the Fall of Adam and Eve. Each person must be born again through the Atonement of Jesus Christ to cease being a natural man.
 
Do u expect us to believe this is totally on a whim?

Does she expect us to believe that God is love?

1 John 4:16
16
So we have known and believe the love that God has for us.God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them.

 
Romans 2:3-8
3 Do you imagine, whoever you are, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not realize that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath, when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 He will repay according to each one’s deeds: 7 to those who by patiently doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life, 8 while for those who are self-seeking and who obey not the truth but injustice, there will be wrath and fury.

2 Peter 3:9,17-18
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, beware that you are not carried away with the error of the lawless and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity.



Revelation 2:2
2 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;




RCM
 
That's your opinion. We disagree. Duet 18 would place most of prophets in the Bible in the fake category. A point that I have already demonstrated.

Joseph Smith proved himself a false prophet with his statement about the Biblical Jesus,

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

False. There is no reason for us to debate things that were never taught nor are today. God was always God. There was never a time when He wasn't. The KFD does not refute that.
Nothing but more mormon lies and deception

Joseph Smith's words in the KFD are plain and straight forward and can't be denied

But Joseph Smith was a liar, so you have to be a liar if you follow him


If that is true then so did Abraham Isaac and Jacob as well as Moses. I don't think you know what the word prostitution means.

Joseph Smith taught, promoted, and practice pagan cult prostitution (37 wives from 1841-1843)

Really hard to defend a false prophet, a false gospel, a false book of mormon, and a false temple

Plagiarism is another word got it appears you don't know it's meaning. Joseph Smith did not claim authorship for those passages and each passage was referenced to the Old testament and the prophet who said them.

How hard you have to work to cover up the mormon mess

How convenient that the ancient gold plates were written in 1611 A.D. King James Translation, what a joke, can you say plagiarism?


And it is. Arguing with your opinion is like leading in a fight with your chin. If we were to take just one book that you believe is true and that archeology cannot sustain, I would have to ask you which of the thousands of versions of that book is the most correct?

Again, how you have to lie and deceive

No historical nor archaeological evidence for the nephites, lamanites, and jaredites, means fiction


Again I purely false statement. There is archaeological evidence that supports the book. There is a whole continent. There is narrow neck of land. There is water running into the ocean. There are numerous plants and animals which did and do exist in the area where these things were supposed to have happened. There was also a civilization that existed on the continent that was totally obliterated before they arrived. There is lots of archaeological evidence that supports the Book of Mormon. You're unwillingness to recognize the evidence that does exist doesn't negate the evidence.

What a laugh

There is about as much archaeological and historical evidence for the Book of Mormon as there is for the men and women living on the moon that Joseph Smith taught about (false prophet!)



RCM
 
This would go along with my last post. You're unwillingness to recognize the evidence that does exist does not mean it doesn't exist.

Again,

There is about as much archaeological and historical evidence for the Book of Mormon as there is for the men and women living on the moon that Joseph Smith taught about (false prophet!)

Still leading with your chin. The statement you made doesn't even I foundation. I don't think anyone knows what Hill Cumorah ur talking about. Hint: the hill in New York is not necessarily the hill being spoken of in the Book of Mormon.

Still responding with lies

Everyone knows that Hill Cumorah in New York is exactly the hill spoken of in the Book of Mormon

Notice the words I bolded, your statement gives you away that you are just attempting to do mormon damage control, more lies

If we're going to be talking about lands, I think there is an North America a Central America and a South America all which seem to be in the Book of Mormon. So there are lands. There are a number of cities and locations and people in the Bible that also have no archaeological evidence to support their existence. It doesn't seem unreasonable that 400 ad to the current date would be sufficient amount of time to lose connections amongst the remaining people who survived to change names. It's my hypothesis that the people who sought to destroy the nephites hated them so much that they wanted to destroy everything that reminded them of the former inhabitants. Evidence that I have uncovered suggests that the mesoamerican people continued their obliteration of nephites moving into North America as far as Canada. So it's not unlikely that we would not be able to find city names that were used by the nephites.

Don't you ever get tired of lying and trying to cover up the fact that there is no historical nor archaeological evidence?


Joseph Smith referenced the Mississippi River Valley and Eastern United States, and Hill Cumorah


What? You mean found by you? Thank goodness that none of you have been able to get a hold of the book of mormon. You've made a mess of the Bible. I can see that it's actually wisdom in God that he keeps it from you all. As with all things archaeological all you have to do is wait and the evidence will come up. To date there has been no evidence to prove that Book of Mormon false.

Nothing, means you have nothing, period!

What a garbage post
That's good. The Book of Mormon was written and neither Egyptian or Hebrew.

I know, it was written in the King James English

I think you're repeating yourself. Say the same thing using different words and then put another number on it and pretend that it's new. And there's a lot of that here. I mean, how many different ways can we say there's no archaeological evidence?

Right, no archaeological nor historical evidence means it didn't happen, can you say, figment of Joseph Smith's imagination, fiction?

On the order of proof this is insignificant. One could debate if it is even evidence. When you can provide evidence or proof of the Resurrection I will consider wheat as being an issue that might stop one salvation.

Archaeology reveals the truth, and truth is something mormonism doesn't have

Nevertheless, when it comes to archeology, as we have seen with barley, all we have to do is wait and somebody will find it.

I am sure it is there on Hill Cumorah

Where do we find in the Book of Mormon evidence that animals were carrying men? All of this is simply nitpicking and are not evidence or proof that a book is false. Let me know when you've found a cherogrillus, unicorn, or a pygarg. All of these animals are mentioned in the Bible but I'm not aware of any archeological evidence to support their existence.

Of course you know what the book of mormon says, you just like to play games, so I will let you name the book and chapters,

And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.

Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.


Whose arrows shall be sharp, and all their bows bent, and their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind, their roaring like a lion.

And they also had horses, and asses, and there were elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and cumoms.


Is that enough evidence for you???

Still repeating yourself as if you've added something new to the list. While we haven't found a foundry for making steel, we have found steel tools and weapons from that period and location. Where they got it from is a mystery, but u probably know that steel doesn't make itself.

Cumorah is not an issue even if you want it to be. As for chariots, we don't know what that is even if you think u do. Again, we are not required to prove your imagination. It is entirely feasible that it is a wagon with wheels pulled by horses and it would all fit into that era. All we have to do is wait. They are still digging and based on Lidar readings there is a lot of that still to do.

Hill Cumorah is an issue, a big issue and you know it!


RCM
 
John 17:17-19

Jesus consecrates the apostles.

17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.

Jesus ordained the apostles and sends them out into the world on a mission.

18 As you have sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.


Jesus sanctifies himself so that the apostles also may be sanctified in truth.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, so that they also may be sanctified in truth.

Revelation 2:2
2 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;



RCM
 
Again, ur opinion doesn't make fact. There are a lot of similarities and in case you've forgotten, there are no more blood sacrifices since the Christ. All the parts of the temple are there and all the ceremonies are still there virtually unchanged. Washing and anointing, new name, endowment, etc. They are all there.

No similarities at all, period!

That's because he is. It doesn't matter that you disagree. Your word doesn't make it true. God the Father is the Father of all our spirits including Jesus who is the firstborn. That would mean that any that came after him would be his brother or sister. Jesus references this very fact in the Bible when talking to Mary... His God and her God, his father and her father. Clearly, he wasn't referring to the flesh.
Glad you admit it!

And that proves mormonism is not Biblical, it is a cult

The Biblical God is not the Father of satan, in any way, shape, or form,

No, we don't. We teach that Jesus was born of a man and a woman the same as we have all been conceived. How that was done, whether sexual or by some other means has never been discussed, that I know of.

Lies and denial, you can't erase what Brigham Young and McConkie have written

😂 Your opinion or theirs doesn't make it true. Mark didn't expose anything other than himself being a fraud and a criminal. Seriously, u need better character witnesses than this.

Seriously?

Your false mormon prophet and apostles were exposed as nothing but cheap suits with no divine insight!!!


No one knows where the garden of Eden was, certainly not you all. Missouri is not where the garden was, it is where Adam lived after he was cast out of the garden. The natural conclusion is that the garden would be somewhere near there. That's assuming that the garden was even on the earth. But, judging from the archeological evidence, something you like to use, it never was on the earth. The earth is over 2 billion years old and has gone through several extinction level events. There was hardly ever a time or a place where such a garden could be on this planet. The closest Missouri could come to being the location of the garden is that is where the "gate" would have been.

More great mormon fiction

You poor ignorant person, have you never read Genesis???

Genesis 2:10-14
10 Now a river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers.
11 The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.
12 The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there.
13 The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush.
14 The name of the third river is Tigris; it flows east of Assyria. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.


Historically, I don't think, Missouri is even in the picture


Blatantly false. The path to perfection is through Jesus Christ. That will occur over time, an eternity if need be, through repentance by following Christ and living as He lived. It is through repentance that we are reconciled to God through Christ. Being on that path is essential to exaltation. There is no other way.

Not what Ezra Benson and Spencer Kimball say


And even you can be sealed to your spouse (of the opposite sex, of course). Isn't it great that God has a plan for all of his children?

Even satan, right?



RCM
 
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Revelation 2:2
2 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;




RCM
Curious, are you pitting one scripture against another?
 
John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son,that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
1 Timothy 2:4
4
who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2 Peter 3:9
9
The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness,but is patient with you,not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance.
 
2 Chronicles 20:20
Believe in the LORD your God,so shall ye be established;believe His prophets,so shall ye prosper
 
Ezekiel 18:23
23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, and not rather that they should turn from their ways and live?
Matthew 23:37
37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often have I desired to gather your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you were not willing!



 
Natural Man
Guide to the Scriptures
A person who chooses to be influenced by the passions, desires, appetites, and senses of the flesh rather than by the promptings of the Holy Spirit. Such a person can comprehend physical things but not spiritual things. All people are carnal, or mortal, because of the Fall of Adam and Eve. Each person must be born again through the Atonement of Jesus Christ to cease being a natural man.
ONLY God can give the new birth and He gives it to those whom He has chosen, not because we were already deserving.
 

Does she expect us to believe that God is love?

1 John 4:16
16
So we have known and believe the love that God has for us.God is love, and those who abide in love abide in God, and God abides in them.


No context. God hates the workers of iniquity.
 
God hates the workers of iniquity.

Explain to us what a worker of iniquity is. Then tell us how this veiled insult is applicable to Latter-day Saints. Stop walking around with a mouth full of scriptures and a heart full of hate.
 
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1 John 4:16
No context.

If one of the attributes of God is unconditional love then why was that that the intention of God the Father the atonement of Jesus Christ is only efficacious for the elect,thereby leading them without fail to salvation?

1 John 4:16
16
So we have known and believe the love that God has for us.God is love,and those who abide in love abide in God,and God abides in them.


 
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