Does God love everyone ?

No only Calvinists say that
I beg to differ. I don't think Calvinists say it at all. After Grace? Sure; we have Free Will to Believe and be Saved. I would say that Arminians do not believe they have Free Will to Obey the Gospel because of their Book-End adherence to Total Depravity. The Will is Depraved; not Free...

Was your Will Depraved?

You argue like TomL; saying you believe 'A' [Total Depravity], then argue against 'A' [Total Depravity] by arguing for Free Will...


What really happened brother? You would have never fallen for this stuff before...
 
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Well, first of all, I dislike the accusation that it is Calvinists who are "changing" things.

Secondly, I don't think we are "erasing" anything. Of course the coming is voluntary (ie. willful), and intentional. But I think YOU are the one assuming a "control" or "option" to it.

In all cases of usage of "draw" both in the Bible and in modern day, the coming on the drawing was 100% successful and efficacious.
One lexicon says that the Greek word has a literal as well as figurative meaning. Literally drawing a sword, is what you are referring to. But it also says the word can be used to mean attract, like a moth to a flame. It does not have to mean the moth flew into the flame, only that it was attracted to the flame. As far as I can see the passage is not using the word literally
 
One lexicon says that the Greek word has a literal as well as figurative meaning. Literally drawing a sword, is what you are referring to. But it also says the word can be used to mean attract, like a moth to a flame. It does not have to mean the moth flew into the flame, only that it was attracted to the flame. As far as I can see the passage is not using the word literally

That doesn't change the fact that it is always 100% efficacious.
 
yes, but efficaceous to do what? You seem to be positing the idea that when the verb is used to mean "attract" that attraction will always draw the person all the way to the object of attraction. Is that what you are saying?

That's what "draw"/"ελκυω" means, yes.
I gave tons of examples.
And nobody has ever been able to give me a counter-example.
 
efficaceous to what?

The coming is efficacious.
The drawn will always completely come.

consider John 12:32

<sigh>
I have, literally hundreds of times.

Jesus says He will draw all men to Himself. if we go by what you are saying, then everyone thruout time will be drawn all the way to Jesus.

John 6:44 and John 12:32 are completely unrelated and independent of each other.
6:44 is about the Father drawing, and 12:32 is about Jesus drawing, so unless you believe Jesus is the Father, they can't be talking about the same thing. And even if you think they were, why didn't Jesus say them together (like most Arminians do), rather than separating them by 6 chapters?

Further, I think it is a misinterpretation to interpret "all men" as "every single individual". They simply weren't that precise back in the day. And the Greek doesn't say, "all men", it only says, "I will draw all to myself."

Is that "all individuals"?
Is that "all nations"?
Is that "all classes of men?"

Generally Scriptures refer to GROUPS of people, not "individuals".
Bond/free
male/female
rich/poor
Israel/Egyptian

Further, our opinion can be informed by WHAT is qualified by "all" or "every", is it the individuals, or is it the people groups?:

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,

It's the "tribe" that was "every".
It's the "language" that was "every".
It's the "people" that was "every".
It's the "nation" that was "every".

Not the "individuals".
Individuals were ransomed OUT OF every people group.
 
The coming is efficacious.
The drawn will always completely come.



<sigh>
I have, literally hundreds of times.



John 6:44 and John 12:32 are completely unrelated and independent of each other.
6:44 is about the Father drawing, and 12:32 is about Jesus drawing, so unless you believe Jesus is the Father, they can't be talking about the same thing. And even if you think they were, why didn't Jesus say them together (like most Arminians do), rather than separating them by 6 chapters?

Further, I think it is a misinterpretation to interpret "all men" as "every single individual". They simply weren't that precise back in the day. And the Greek doesn't say, "all men", it only says, "I will draw all to myself."

Is that "all individuals"?
Is that "all nations"?
Is that "all classes of men?"

Generally Scriptures refer to GROUPS of people, not "individuals".
Bond/free
male/female
rich/poor
Israel/Egyptian

Further, our opinion can be informed by WHAT is qualified by "all" or "every", is it the individuals, or is it the people groups?:

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,

It's the "tribe" that was "every".
It's the "language" that was "every".
It's the "people" that was "every".
It's the "nation" that was "every".

Not the "individuals".
Individuals were ransomed OUT OF every people group.
what does the context of John 12;32 mean to you? Or are you saying it is too vague for you to make a solid conclusion about what Jesus means?
 
what does the context of John 12;32 mean to you? Or are you saying it is too vague

Please don't put derogatory words in my mouth.
It's rude.

for you to make a solid conclusion about what Jesus means?

It means that Jesus is not going to draw just Jews to Himself, but people from OTHER people groups as well. As I already pointed out in Rev:

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,
 
Please don't put derogatory words in my mouth.
It's rude.



It means that Jesus is not going to draw just Jews to Himself, but people from OTHER people groups as well. As I already pointed out in Rev:

Rev. 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God
from
every tribe and language and people and nation,
I apologize that you thought it was rude, honestly, I was trying to feed back to you what I saw you saying to verify I was understanding your position. You had given me several possible interpretations, but indicated you had not settled on any particular meaning for that part of the verse.
 
But wait...there is more.

Hebrew Word for Hate​

So the word hate does not mean hate..........

What a load of nonsense.

Looks like you expect us to remove the word hate from our vocabulary and change it to "in pain"

The lengths people go to, to change God's word boggles the mind.

God is "in pain" about Esau....
Ludicrous.

You were following God, and now you aim to please a man.

Use your article on these and see how you are distorting the character of God.
Pro 6:16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
Pro 6:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
Pro 6:19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
 
If salvation was for all, this could be entertained as a valid point.

Reality, which people here tend to ignore show us the hate people have for God. (Or perhaps they just love Him a little bit less than their love for Him, or perhaps they are in pain about God)
These people go to an eternal lake of fire. Jesus tells us what that will be like. - Go look it up.

To think that God ever had that "special, warm, cuddly, love" for them negates His sovereignty.

But that is the aim of most here after all is it not. To make man sovereign.

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Be honest with yourself and before God for once in your life, and reconcile what you wrote, with what God states.
You are 100% in contradiction with the word of God.

Who did He predestine in love? The whole world? Who does He adopt? The whole world? Who will be blameless before Him? The whole world?
No, not the whole world, no matter how much you wish it, or think it or teach it.

Are all sinners in the whole world predestined, loved and adopted by God before the foundation of the world - Scripture says no! You insist yes!
 
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Are all sinners in the whole world predestined, loved and adopted by God before the foundation of the world - Scripture says no! You insist yes!

Only those sinners who respond to the Gospel.

23 "Then the master said to the servant,`Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 `For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.'" (Lk. 14:23-24 NKJ)
 
Foreknowledge
It astonishes me how you contradict scripture and you have all these hangers on who adore you.

You say foreknowledge, yet scripture says foreknowledge has nothing to do with it, and all your followers cow-tow to your 'wisdom"

Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

Election and foreknowledge are not synonyms.

Mat 18:6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
 
Only those sinners who respond to the Gospel.

23 "Then the master said to the servant,`Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 `For I say to you that none of those men who were invited shall taste my supper.'" (Lk. 14:23-24 NKJ)
And you try and prove the sovereignty of man again!

You think man can compel man to be born again, that it is flesh, compelling flesh.

You think this scripture does not apply to religious Jews who believed they had the invitation.....

Are you a teacher of the word of God?
 
Oh, lookie here. Jesus LOVED a man who disobeyed His command to "go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor...take up the cross and follow Me" Clearly from Jesus own words, He went away a reprobate, refusing to give up his idol of money to serve Jesus. And, it is not a stretch to believe he never obeyed Christ in the remainder of his lifetime, nor did he take up his cross or follow Christ. Ergo, he was a reprobate - not chosen by God but "doomed to destruction"!!!

YET JESUS LOVED HIM!!!
Yes, Jesus loved him unconditionally all the way into hell right?

When will you people stop teaching salvation apart from Jesus? What about that rich young ruler makes you think Jesus pardoned him?

Look at scripture below and note Jesus's words about "worthless servants" Yet he loves, loves, loves them all the way to where there will be gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
Mat 25:30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
The Final Judgment
Mat 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.
Mat 25:32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’
Mat 25:37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Mat 25:38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
Mat 25:39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Mat 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’
Mat 25:44 Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’
Mat 25:45 Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
 
God loves all the lost the same ie the sinners. God so loved the world ( includes all). Gods love for the children of God is different since there is a relationship with them.

hope this helps !!!
Where does it say it includes all?

That would be you changing the text.

Reconcile your teaching with other scripture.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

The above scripture is not inclusive of all.
Yet you would teach it is.

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
 
And John 3:16 needs such profound exegesis lol. Children can believe it and be saved. So much for that argument.

hope this helps !!!
Believe what?
That Jesus loves, them unconditionally right?
That all people were chosen before the foundation of the world by God because he loves them so much right?

No, wrong.
You really do not teach the word of God. You stand opposed to the word of God.
 
Now back to the point of the OP which has yet to be refuted .

Yes God indeed loves everyone as we read in Scripture below.

John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

Hebrews 2:9
But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness and the love of mankind ofGod our Savior appeared

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Corinthians 5:14
For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

hope this helps !!!
Oh, the hubris!

You really do love self a lot don't you.

Reconcile these scriptures with Ephesians 1 and let's see how you have proven anything.

Oops, you will not be able to...
 
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