Rapture yes or no

[GeneZ]

Some here have to be bankrupt of logic.

For if the Rapture took place just before Jesus returned?

He would be only having a planet filled with unbelievers who were left behind to begin His Kingdom on earth.

Its sheer idiocy.

After the Rapture.. many on earth during the Tribulation will believe the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and become saved. Those who endure to the end of the Tribulation will be saved as they enter into the unfolding Millennial reign of Christ.

Those who endure to the end never lose hope in God's Word while all hell was breaking out around them.

 

[Gary Mac]

Woweee! God is going to drown Noah this time around! ..... Oh Joy! Oh Joy!

Don't you just love it?


13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,
so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died
and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of
the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down
from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God,
and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thes 4:13-19

You are of NO COMFORT! Something is terribly wrong with your kind of thinking. Its almost bordering on gleeful sadism.

Many believers in Jesus Christ have died since the church age began. Those who are remaining alive at the right time will be in the Rapture.

The Lord comes down from above just as He did in Jesus in Matt3:16 in us all who will receive Him as Jesus did, as Moses did, Abraham, heck even Adam received and became like Him as well. Gen 2:22, 120 received the Lord in an upper room and so do all today who will receive Him.

The kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is within you just as Jesus did it is in Luke 17:20-21.
Sadly not very many actually believe Jesus that it is, that is why they seek this man made rapture with three god rules.

Want to be taken out of this world? Then there is your answer. We who has received from the Lord as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 have been taken out of this world, we are in it but we are not of it.

 

[Gary Mac]

Some here have to be bankrupt of logic.

For if the Rapture took place just before Jesus returned?

He would be only having a planet filled with unbelievers who were left behind to begin His Kingdom on earth.

Its sheer idiocy.

After the Rapture.. many on earth during the Tribulation will believe the 144,000 Jewish evangelists and become saved. Those who endure to the end of the Tribulation will be saved as they enter into the unfolding Millennial reign of Christ.

Those who endure to the end never lose hope in God's Word while all hell was breaking out around them.

All hell is breaking out around us, plagues, wars, rumors of wars, hatred, scandals, but the one thing that mis for sure is we who has been taken out of this world sit with Him in His throne for the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation but is within you. Luke 17:20-21.

Those looking for another kingdom to come are missing His kingdom this day for He comes to all who will receive Him, the One who is at the door knocking this day and anyone who will let Him in He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

There is His rapture if one wants to call it that but the truth is Jesus referred to this process of being taken out as born again.

 

[Neo]

I

Woweee! God is going to drown Noah this time around! ..... Oh Joy! Oh Joy!

Don't you just love it?


13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,
so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died
and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of
the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down
from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God,
and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up
together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thes 4:13-19

You are of NO COMFORT! Something is terribly wrong with your kind of thinking. Its almost bordering on gleeful sadism.

Many believers in Jesus Christ have died since the church age began. Those who are remaining alive at the right time will be in the Rapture.

I have mearly pointed out that there is not a pre-tribulation rapture. There will be a rapture (being caught up with Jesus), but it is not a pre-trib rapture.

Yes, the church has to overcome the tribulation, and yes there will be comfort after we persevere because we will be with the Lord forever.

However, we cannot forget that we do need to overcome the rebellion and the revealing of the antichrist first.

"
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
2Th 2:1‭-‬4

The rebellion and the revealing of the lawless one will occur before the Lord comes. We need to be prepared to overcome this. If we do, then we will be rewarded.

 

[GeneZ]

I

I have mearly pointed out that there is not a pre-tribulation rapture. There will be a rapture (being caught up with Jesus), but it is not a pre-trib rapture.

Yes, the church has to overcome the tribulation, and yes there will be comfort after we persevere because we will be with the Lord forever.

That's confusion... Why should God suddenly begin calling Jews to evangelize the world if the Church is yet present on earth?????
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/who-are-the-144000-in-revelation/

The 144,000 Jewish young men from every tribe of Israel are not of the church.

 

[Neo]

That's confusion... Why should God suddenly begin calling Jews to evangelize the world if the Church is yet present on earth?????
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/who-are-the-144000-in-revelation/

The 144,000 Jewish young men from every tribe of Israel are not of the church.

There is a great falling away (the rebellion). There will not be many from the Church left by the time the antichrist is revealed. Many within the church will not be prepared for His coming and will rebel.

This is why Jesus calls every church to repentance in the letters in Revelations and also calls them to overcome.

Do you think they need to overcome the pre-tribulation rapture, or the rebellion and revealing of the antichrist?

 

[GeneZ]

There is a great falling away (the rebellion). There will not be many from the Church left by the time the antichrist is revealed. Many within the church will not be prepared for His coming and will rebel.

This is why Jesus calls every church to repentance in the letters in Revelations and also calls them to overcome.

Do you think they need to overcome the pre-tribulation rapture, or the rebellion and revealing of the antichrist?

Some translate it the great apostasy - which is a departure from the faith.

Its the same word used of Satan when he "departed" from Jesus after the temptation.

The Great DEPARTURE must come first. The Rapture is the great departure.

And, you still ignore all the other things I stated?

144,000 Jews will be used to evangelize during the Tribulation, for the church age had ENDED.



For if the Rapture took place just before Jesus returned?

He would be only having a planet filled with unbelievers who were left behind to begin His Kingdom on earth.
Makes no sense that way!

 

[Gary Mac]

I

I have mearly pointed out that there is not a pre-tribulation rapture. There will be a rapture (being caught up with Jesus), but it is not a pre-trib rapture.

Yes, the church has to overcome the tribulation, and yes there will be comfort after we persevere because we will be with the Lord forever.

However, we cannot forget that we do need to overcome the rebellion and the revealing of the antichrist first.

"
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
2Th 2:1‭-‬4

The rebellion and the revealing of the lawless one will occur before the Lord comes. We need to be prepared to overcome this. If we do, then we will be rewarded.

The only way you can overcome it is to receive from God the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16. Most who say they follow the ways of Christ actually follow their own ideas for a Christ and has no intent in being that person of Christ that God puts in all who are of Him just as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16. He opens up all of who He is and His heaven to anyone who will.

 

[Gary Mac]

That's confusion... Why should God suddenly begin calling Jews to evangelize the world if the Church is yet present on earth?????
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevin-deyoung/who-are-the-144000-in-revelation/

The 144,000 Jewish young men from every tribe of Israel are not of the church.

Thats right, Jewish beliefs does not believe in Christ, much like our denominations who believe they cant be of Christ either. They worship a man instead and call him the Christ. These do not have a clue what it is to be Gods anointed, Christ in you.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

I

I have mearly pointed out that there is not a pre-tribulation rapture. There will be a rapture (being caught up with Jesus), but it is not a pre-trib rapture.

Yes, the church has to overcome the tribulation, and yes there will be comfort after we persevere because we will be with the Lord forever.

However, we cannot forget that we do need to overcome the rebellion and the revealing of the antichrist first.

"
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
2Th 2:1‭-‬4

The rebellion and the revealing of the lawless one will occur before the Lord comes. We need to be prepared to overcome this. If we do, then we will be rewarded.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 King James Version

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The "Day of Christ" in v.2 is referring to the event Paul goes on to define: the Day of the Lord.

But that is not the only reason not to view Paul to be saying that the Rapture won't take place until the Day of the Lord is at hand: it is quite impossible for the Rapture to take place at Christ's coming due to the fact that a thousand year period follows His Return, and there will be physical believers that populate the Millennial Kingdom.

Secondly, Paul is comforting them that they be not troubled by those who say the Day of the Lord is at hand—specifically because we are going to be gathered by Him when He returns for the Church. In other words, don't be worried that the Rapture has taken place and you have missed it because the Day of the Lord—the Tribulation—will be readily discernible because...

He doesn't say,

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him is at hand."


Two entirely different events.

So I would just ask you, do you believe Revelation 20?


Revelation 20:4-6 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Do you believe there will be a thousand year period? Will "the rest of the dead" not live again (be resurrected) until the thousand years are finished?


God bless.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

Thats right, Jewish beliefs does not believe in Christ, much like our denominations who believe they cant be of Christ either. They worship a man instead and call him the Christ. These do not have a clue what it is to be Gods anointed, Christ in you.

Your denial that Jesus is the Christ becomes more and more clear, Gary Mac.

So shall we call you Gary Mac christ?

Or christ Gary Mac?

You might as well let your religion evolve full scale, and begin calling yourself what Jesus was called because He was the Christ.


God bless.

 

[Neo]

Some translate it the great apostasy - which is a departure from the faith.

Its the same word used of Satan when he "departed" from Jesus after the temptation.

The Great DEPARTURE must come first. The Rapture is the great departure.

And, you still ignore all the other things I stated?

144,000 Jews will be used to evangelize during the Tribulation, for the church age had ENDED.



For if the Rapture took place just before Jesus returned?

He would be only having a planet filled with unbelievers who were left behind to begin His Kingdom on earth.
Makes no sense that way!

The "rapture" event is not a removal of believers from the earth, but a meeting in the air to then escort Jesus down to reign for 1,000 years.

It would be wise to look up the original Greek for "meet" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. It is apantesin. It means "the meeting". There is so much to delve into on just this one passage, but let's take this one step at a time to help being about unity in Scripture

The word apantesin is mentioned 3 times in the New Testament. It is mentioned in Acts, 1 Thessalonians, and for the 10 virgins analogy. In all three cases the events that occur is going out to meet someone, to then turn around and escort them back to where they came from.

In the case of the virgins, they went out to meet the bridegroom, to then turn around and escort Him to the wedding banquet.

The same occurs in the "rapture" event. We are caught up together to meet Jesus in the air, to then escort Him down to reign as King for 1,000 years.

This was also the tradition during the times of Jesus. When a dignitary was close to arriving, an escort would go out to meet the dignitary to then escort them into town.

So, when I say "rapture" this is what I mean.

I'll get to your other points, but let's make sure we understand this point first.

 

[Neo]

The S

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 King James Version

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


The "Day of Christ" in v.2 is referring to the event Paul goes on to define: the Day of the Lord.

But that is not the only reason not to view Paul to be saying that the Rapture won't take place until the Day of the Lord is at hand: it is quite impossible for the Rapture to take place at Christ's coming due to the fact that a thousand year period follows His Return, and there will be physical believers that populate the Millennial Kingdom.

Secondly, Paul is comforting them that they be not troubled by those who say the Day of the Lord is at hand—specifically because we are going to be gathered by Him when He returns for the Church. In other words, don't be worried that the Rapture has taken place and you have missed it because the Day of the Lord—the Tribulation—will be readily discernible because...

He doesn't say,

"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him is at hand."


Two entirely different events.

So I would just ask you, do you believe Revelation 20?


Revelation 20:4-6 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Do you believe there will be a thousand year period? Will "the rest of the dead" not live again (be resurrected) until the thousand years are finished?


God bless.

The passage in 2 Thessalonians clearly states the coming of the Lord and us being gathered together with Him is one event and doesn't occur until the rebellion or apostasy and the revealing of the lawless one comes first.

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thessalonians 2:1‭-‬3

It clearly states that that day will not come until those two events come first. This is clear as day.

What does "that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed. .?"

Furthermore, if it was two separate events, then Paul would distinguish what event would take place before, after or during these event. However, both the coming of the Lord and us being gathered together is joined together in the conclusion of the rebellion and revealing happening first.

In addition, when I discuss the "rapture," this is what I mean:

The "rapture" event is not a removal of believers from the earth, but a meeting in the air to then escort Jesus down to reign for 1,000 years.

It would be wise to look up the original Greek for "meet" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. It is apantesin. It means "the meeting". There is so much to delve into on just this one passage, but let's take this one step at a time to help being about unity in Scripture

The word apantesin is mentioned 3 times in the New Testament. It is mentioned in Acts, 1 Thessalonians, and for the 10 virgins analogy. In all three cases the events that occur is going out to meet someone, to then turn around and escort them back to where they came from.

In the case of the virgins, they went out to meet the bridegroom, to then turn around and escort Him to the wedding banquet.

The same occurs in the "rapture" event. We are caught up together to meet Jesus in the air, to then escort Him down to reign as King for 1,000 years.

This was also the tradition during the times of Jesus. When a dignitary was close to arriving, an escort would go out to meet the dignitary to then escort them into town.

So, when I say "rapture" this is what I mean.

Yes, I absolutely believe in Revelations 20:4-5.

This perfectly explains the rapture event. It is the first resurrection, which refutes a previous resurrection in a pre-trib doctrine.

Revelations 20 explains that the believers who lived through the tribulation and died during the resurrection will meet Jesus in the air to then escort Him down to reign in His kingdom.

They will be protected within His city as those outside experience the wrath of God.

Then the 1,000 year reign occurs. Then Satan is released and he gathers the huge army. Then Jesus destroys this army and throws Satan into the lake of fire

Then the white throne judgement occurs, where the dead before the tribulation are judged. Those written in the Book of Life are saved, those whose names are not in the book are condemned.

Then the earth and heaven are destroyed. Then the new heaven and earth are created. Then the bride of Christ is presented...

So anyway, true believers do not leave the earth during the "rapture," instead they meet Jesus in the air to escort Him down to reign as King of Kings for 1,000 years.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

The "rapture" event is not a removal of believers from the earth, but a meeting in the air to then escort Jesus down to reign for 1,000 years.

It would be wise to look up the original Greek for "meet" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. It is apantesin. It means "the meeting". There is so much to delve into on just this one passage, but let's take this one step at a time to help being about unity in Scripture

The word apantesin is mentioned 3 times in the New Testament. It is mentioned in Acts, 1 Thessalonians, and for the 10 virgins analogy. In all three cases the events that occur is going out to meet someone, to then turn around and escort them back to where they came from.

In the case of the virgins, they went out to meet the bridegroom, to then turn around and escort Him to the wedding banquet.

The same occurs in the "rapture" event. We are caught up together to meet Jesus in the air, to then escort Him down to reign as King for 1,000 years.

This was also the tradition during the times of Jesus. When a dignitary was close to arriving, an escort would go out to meet the dignitary to then escort them into town.

So, when I say "rapture" this is what I mean.

I'll get to your other points, but let's make sure we understand this point first.

"Rapture" translates harpazo, and means caught up. It is eisegesis to impose a catching up and a return. Show that in 1 Thessalonians 4. That's all you have to do.

In regards to the parables, you are forgetting their application to Christ's Return itself. In other words, look at them again and consider how they are applicable to the Millennial Kingdom and the Eternal State.

Will money be used in the Eternal State, for example? Will Christ give the talents of one man to another?

The big question is whether you believe Scripture when Scripture teaches in the Old Testament that God will restore Israel to a physical Kingdom here on earth? Do you believe New Testament Prophecy that this Kingdom will be one thousand years old?

If you do, then you have to acknowledge a Pre-Tribulation Rapture because in the Rapture all Christians are caught up and will be with the Lord from that day forward. If that happens at Christ's Return there is no one left to populate the earth and to bring about the wicked that join with Satan when he is released for a short time to deceive the nations.

When Christ returns the Sheep and Goat Judgment takes place and all unbelievers will be destroyed, just as in the days of Noah and Lot. Only believers are left alive. They enter into that Kingdom and it is from them that the unbelieving arise.The unbelieving will be descendants of born-again believers that physically make it through the Tribulation and enter into that Kingdom at the conclusion of the Sheep and Goat judgment.

The believers of the Tribulation that die are resurrected in the First (protos) Resurrection that follows Christ's return:


Revelation 20:4-6 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The Pre-Tribulational Rapture is the only position that doesn't need to remove Scripture or spiritualize Scripture into something it isn't.

The Good News for Post-Tribulational believers is that their position won't keep them from being raptured, so all is well.




God bless.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

The passage in 2 Thessalonians clearly states the coming of the Lord and us being gathered together with Him is one event and doesn't occur until the rebellion or apostasy and the revealing of the lawless one comes first.

It doesn't show it is one event unless someone is desperate to make it one event, lol.

Our gathering unto Him is the reason why they don't need to be concerned that the Day of the Lord is at hand.

The reason is: you won't be here.

Be comforted by that.

Not, "When you see the Apostasy and Antichrist then you can be comforted that our gathering unto Him is at hand." It doesn't say that. It says exactly what it says:


2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


See the difference?

Paul beseeches them with the Rapture as that which comforts. "The Day of the Lord is not at hand because you haven't been raptured."

He is saying that those who say the Day of the Lord is at hand are lying. They are lying because the Apostasy and Antichrist haven't arrived.


God bless.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

What does "that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed. .?"

And the day in view is the Day of the Lord. Not our gathering unto Him.


God bless.

 

[Gary Mac]

Your denial that Jesus is the Christ becomes more and more clear, Gary Mac.

No you only falsely accuse me of Jesus not being the Christ. The fact is you do not know the Christ. Nothing could be more or more clear.

So shall we call you Gary Mac christ?

If that makes you feel better.

Or christ Gary Mac?

If you prefer.

You might as well let your religion evolve full scale,

I dont have a religion. I have the same mind of Christ Jesus had.

You should let this same mind be in you as well who was in Christ Jesus. It is the way of the Father to have His same mind.

and begin calling yourself what Jesus was called because He was the Christ.

Yes I am a son of God to and if you like you can call me Gods son that I am.

God bless.

 

[S.T.Ranger]

In addition, when I discuss the "rapture," this is what I mean:

The "rapture" event is not a removal of believers from the earth, but a meeting in the air to then escort Jesus down to reign for 1,000 years.

Well, you can have your definition of the Rapture, and I will stick to Paul's:


1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 King James Version

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


This is the rapture, and all believers of the Church are glorified. Can't happen before the Lord's Return. Then no one will be left to populate the earth.

And just as in 2 Thessalonians, he goes from the Rapture to the Day of the Lord:


1 Thessalonians 5 King James Version

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


Do you understand that people that say "The Day of the Lord" is at hand" are lying to people, particularly when it is supposed to be Christians telling other Christians "The Day of the Lord is at hand?"

It will come suddenly on an unbelieving world, just as it came in the flood and on Sodom. Only unbelievers are outside of the Ark, Who is Jesus Christ.


God bless.

 

[Neo]

"Rapture" translates harpazo, and means caught up. It is eisegesis to impose a catching up and a return. Show that in 1 Thessalonians 4. That's all you have to do.

In regards to the parables, you are forgetting their application to Christ's Return itself. In other words, look at them again and consider how they are applicable to the Millennial Kingdom and the Eternal State.

Will money be used in the Eternal State, for example? Will Christ give the talents of one man to another?

The big question is whether you believe Scripture when Scripture teaches in the Old Testament that God will restore Israel to a physical Kingdom here on earth? Do you believe New Testament Prophecy that this Kingdom will be one thousand years old?

If you do, then you have to acknowledge a Pre-Tribulation Rapture because in the Rapture all Christians are caught up and will be with the Lord from that day forward. If that happens at Christ's Return there is no one left to populate the earth and to bring about the wicked that join with Satan when he is released for a short time to deceive the nations.

When Christ returns the Sheep and Goat Judgment takes place and all unbelievers will be destroyed, just as in the days of Noah and Lot. Only believers are left alive. They enter into that Kingdom and it is from them that the unbelieving arise.The unbelieving will be descendants of born-again believers that physically make it through the Tribulation and enter into that Kingdom at the conclusion of the Sheep and Goat judgment.

The believers of the Tribulation that die are resurrected in the First (protos) Resurrection that follows Christ's return:


Revelation 20:4-6 King James Version

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


The Pre-Tribulational Rapture is the only position that doesn't need to remove Scripture or spiritualize Scripture into something it isn't.

The Good News for Post-Tribulational believers is that their position won't keep them from being raptured, so all is well.




God bless.

Let's focus on one point at a time to help reveal the contradictions of pre-trib rapture.

"Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection."
Revelation 20:4‭-‬5

This is the first resurrection. This is the resurrection of those who died during the tribulation.

"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years ended."

Followers of Christ who die before the tribulation do not come to life until after the 1,000 reign. They are resurrected during the white throne judgment.

If pre-trib rapture is true, then there would be a resurrection before the first resurrection.

How can there be a resurrection before the first resurrection?

Also, how could the rest of the dead rise to life if they already rose during the pre-trib rapture?

 

[S.T.Ranger]

No you only falsely accuse me of Jesus not being the Christ. The fact is you do not know the Christ. Nothing could be more or more clear.

If that makes you feel better.

If you prefer.

I dont have a religion. I have the same mind of Christ Jesus had.

You should let this same mind be in you as well who was in Christ Jesus. It is the way of the Father to have His same mind.

Yes I am a son of God to and if you like you can call me Gods son that I am.

Sorry Gary Mac, John states that those who deny that Jesus is the Christ are not sons of God, nor can they be, because sons of God are made by the very declaration that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God.

It isn't me that needs to feel better about my doctrine.

No amount of posting is going to change the fact you deny that Jesus is the Christ. I know it, you know it, and God knows it. Why you would continue to peddle your religion among Christians is the only mystery here. But it isn't really a mystery, is it, because we know that the Gospel of Christ is foolishness to them that are perishing.


God bless.