Unconditional election unto damnation.

I believe you are mistaken. In review.....

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

They go from murmuring to mocking Jesus ... (John Gill).

Your insistence there were no Pharisees in the group is ridiculous. Disciples???? Yeah right.

V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
 
You don't want to address what the scripture actually says, quoted by Jesus Christ. Yet, you want me to assume what the Bible does not teach.The

The verses discriminate and delineate who can come to Jesus. Not everyone can.

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”


Here is the bottom line: If God wanted everyone to be saved, they would be. But we know the Bible does not teach that because some go to hell.

I don't have to impose either Arminian or Calvinism on the verses spoke by Jesus Christ. Jesus handles it perfectly.
You claim that I don't want to address what John 6:44 states, yet I broke the verse down and explained its pieces and how they work together in a progression of thought. yet you say I don't want to address what it means.
Maybe you did not see the post?
 
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V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
Not really

The text does not say the disciples murmered

John 6:24–41 (KJV 1900) — 24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
 
They didn't come spiritually, they came physically.

There is nothing in John 6:44 that says what you're claiming. Nothing. Show me the word "spiritual" in John 6:44. You can't.

Nothing here says the young man was drawn by the Father.

No man can come to Jesus except that the Father draw them. Do you not believe the words of the Scriptures. This young man came to Jesus.

Actually, it is.
But it doesn't fit your false theology, so you have to deny that it's the issue.

Again. You are conflating. The Father drew the young man and he went away empty.
 
There is nothing in John 6:44 that says what you're claiming. Nothing. Show me the word "spiritual" in John 6:44. You can't.



No man can come to Jesus except that the Father draw them. Do you not believe the words of the Scriptures. This young man came to Jesus.



Again. You are conflating. The Father drew the young man and he went away empty.
inciteful post, thanks
 
I believe you are mistaken. In review.....

Joh 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Joh 6:43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

They go from murmuring to mocking Jesus ... (John Gill).

Your insistence there were no Pharisees in the group is ridiculous. Disciples???? Yeah right.
Complete nonsense yet again.

Read the words of Jesus in John 6:44.

Then read the context of John 6:65. Jesus was speaking to the disciples here.

This was my post. I quoted John 6:37-39. John 6:44, John 6:65
You don't want to address what the scripture actually says, quoted by Jesus Christ. Yet, you want me to assume what the Bible does not teach.The

The verses discriminate and delineate who can come to Jesus. Not everyone can.

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:65

65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”


Here is the bottom line: If God wanted everyone to be saved, they would be. But we know the Bible does not teach that because some go to hell.

I don't have to impose either Arminian or Calvinism on the verses spoke by Jesus Christ. Jesus handles it perfectly.

Three times in one chapter. The idea is stated quickly, and profoundly.
 
Not really

The text does not say the disciples murmered

John 6:24–41 (KJV 1900) — 24 When the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, neither his disciples, they also took shipping, and came to Capernaum, seeking for Jesus. 25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither? 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. 34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
 
V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
Sorry nowhere did you provide any evidence the Jews were disciples

youb simply assumed it
 
Complete nonsense yet again.

Read the words of Jesus in John 6:44.

Then read the context of John 6:65. Jesus was speaking to the disciples here.

This was my post. I quoted John 6:37-39. John 6:44, John 6:65


Three times in one chapter. The idea is stated quickly, and profoundly.

So I post the three verses preceding verse 44 and you reject their context?

Joh 6:52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

You're conflating instead of dealing what is written in the Scriptures. Jesus was asserting His position with the Father.

Many come to Jesus and leave empty.
 
I have too. There are many that come to Jesus that leave empty....

Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Drawing isn't the issue. It is your conflation.

I did not conflate anything. You did. I never said anything about verses 41,42, or 43. I read them for context of verse 44. Drawing by God the Father is INDEED the issue.

As my brother Howie stated, I was completely accurate.
 
Sorry nowhere did you provide any evidence the Jews were disciples

youb simply assumed it
V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
 
V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.
Sorry but nothing says they were learners of Christ

according to Christ they followed him because of being fed

John 6:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
 
Sorry but nothing says they were learners of Christ

according to Christ they followed him because of being fed

John 6:26 (KJV 1900) — 26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Already answered Here.
 
I did not conflate anything. You did. I never said anything about verses 41,42, or 43. I read them for context of verse 44. Drawing by God the Father is INDEED the issue.

As my brother Howie stated, I was completely accurate.

That is your claim. Your claim is empty. You still insist that Jesus had disciples that were mocking Him. Your response is ridiculous.
 
V41 says, "the Jews," murmured. If Pharisees were murmuring, the writer would have identified them as "the Pharisees." Were they Saducees, the writer would have identified them as "the Saducees." Were they gentiles, the writer would have identified them as, "the gentiles." The writers are precise in the identification of "who" is doing "what" so the readers will know who is doing what

Further, a "disciple" is simply, a learner, or student. Look it up in a lexicon.

So to call those murmuring Jews disciples is accurate.

It was a mixed group. Thus, JEWS. Not hard to understand at all. If it were exclusively Pharisees I would accept your argument.

Your position is self serving.

Your insistence that there were no Pharisees in the group is ridiculous.

Either way, the young man came to Jesus because the Father drawed him. The young man left empty.
 
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