Jesus is just a messenger of the word of GOD not GOD .

Gary Mac said:
Only if the mind, spirit, tells it to. The same mind can be of Gods nature and without sin.
Click to expand...
You won't read the OT prophets so there's that....
even though what God said to his prophets continues to be relevant..
right now... having a transcendent context ...
and not the dusty and over with by now history
as you were trained.

It is not a given that what 'your 'mind' tells you and what God says
are the same.
 
Jim harmon said:
Moses yes to a degree . But not only Moses .
Psalm 82:6
I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.
John 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
These I believe is where they get that little god doctrine.
This I believe is misunderstood.
We are gods over our own destiny .
Given rule over , dominion .
And the most compelling.
Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
The way this reads to me we are already like GOD and his Angels just lacking eternal life .

The sons of GOD .
Those that do the FATHER s will.
as Jesus said
Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Mark 3:35
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
Never said he would be your god .
Click to expand...
I just can't help it but how in the world did you come to the conclusion from Jesus quoting Psalm 82:6 that it means what you said here: "

"This I believe is misunderstood.
We are gods over our own destiny .
Given rule over , dominion .
And the most compelling.
Genesis 3:22"

It's rather apparent and sad that you did not read the context of John 10, starting at vs30 and why Jesus brought up Psalm 82. Jesus said at vs30, "I and the Father are one." At the next verse 31 the Jews react and say, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Why Jim harmon?

Vs32 Jesus says, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" Vs33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man make Yourself out God." Vs34, Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said you are Gods? Vs35, "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), vs36, do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said I am the Son of God" Vs37, If I do not the works of My Father do not believe Me; Vs38, but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."

So what's going on here? At John 10:30 Jesus stated He and the Father are one." Jesus' point is not that He and the Father are one in purpose (as Mormons and other cults believe) although they being one in purpose is a given. Read John 10:27-28 where Jesus says the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father and He/Jesus gives them eternal life.

Getting back to John 10:30 and the word "one" (hen). It is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will and work. Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. At John 10:24 the Jews asked Jesus to tell them plainly who He was. This verse is plain. He does not say "I am Christ, "but "I and my Father are one"--God!

The Jews understood this hence their reaction at vs33 of accusing Him of blasphemy for making Himself out God. It's interesting to note that Jesus is being His own commentator by bringing up Psalm 82:6 and the subject of "gods," why? Jesus' usage of Psalms 82:6 was to imply that what the Scriptures call humans allegorically, he was in actuality since he does what only God can do. This point is brought out more clearly in the verses that follow immediately after John 10:34 which I already quoted.

Reading Psalms 82:6 these "gods" are actually judges/men, acting on behalf of God Himself and they corrupt judges treating the people unfairly. This is why God says at vs7, "Nevertheless, you shall die like the men that you are." So in conclusion Jim harmon, where did you come up with from the context of John 10:30-38? "We are gods over our own destiny?"

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
jamesh said:
I just can't help it but how in the world did you come to the conclusion from Jesus quoting Psalm 82:6 that it means what you said here: "

"This I believe is misunderstood.
We are gods over our own destiny .
Given rule over , dominion .
And the most compelling.
Genesis 3:22"

It's rather apparent and sad that you did not read the context of John 10, starting at vs30 and why Jesus brought up Psalm 82. Jesus said at vs30, "I and the Father are one." At the next verse 31 the Jews react and say, "The Jews took up stones again to stone Him." Why Jim harmon?

Vs32 Jesus says, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" Vs33, "The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man make Yourself out God." Vs34, Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, "I said you are Gods? Vs35, "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), vs36, do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said I am the Son of God" Vs37, If I do not the works of My Father do not believe Me; Vs38, but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I am in the Father."

So what's going on here? At John 10:30 Jesus stated He and the Father are one." Jesus' point is not that He and the Father are one in purpose (as Mormons and other cults believe) although they being one in purpose is a given. Read John 10:27-28 where Jesus says the sheep are equally safe in His hand and in His Father's hand. The power of the Son is equal to that of the Father and He/Jesus gives them eternal life.

Getting back to John 10:30 and the word "one" (hen). It is a neuter number to indicate equality of essence, attributes, design, will and work. Jesus distinguishes the "I" from the "Father" and uses the plural verb "are" denoting "we are." Thus these words separate the persons within the Godhead, but "one" asserts their unity of essence or nature as identical. At John 10:24 the Jews asked Jesus to tell them plainly who He was. This verse is plain. He does not say "I am Christ, "but "I and my Father are one"--God!

The Jews understood this hence their reaction at vs33 of accusing Him of blasphemy for making Himself out God. It's interesting to note that Jesus is being His own commentator by bringing up Psalm 82:6 and the subject of "gods," why? Jesus' usage of Psalms 82:6 was to imply that what the Scriptures call humans allegorically, he was in actuality since he does what only God can do. This point is brought out more clearly in the verses that follow immediately after John 10:34 which I already quoted.

Reading Psalms 82:6 these "gods" are actually judges/men, acting on behalf of God Himself and they corrupt judges treating the people unfairly. This is why God says at vs7, "Nevertheless, you shall die like the men that you are." So in conclusion Jim harmon, where did you come up with from the context of John 10:30-38? "We are gods over our own destiny?"

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Click to expand...
They were going to stone him because as you think they also thought he was claiming to be equal with GOD which Isaiah 14:14 speaks of .
But they knew scripture and there is only ONE on the throne .
Because he carried the word of GOD does that make him GOD ?
All the other prophets that carried GODs word did that make them gods , equal with the FATHER ?
That you claim Jesus is .
Jesus came to show the way to GOD not to be your GOD .
 
Jim harmon said:
They were going to stone him because as you think they also thought he was claiming to be equal with GOD which Isaiah 14:14 speaks of .
But they knew scripture and there is only ONE on the throne .
Because he carried the word of GOD does that make him GOD ?
All the other prophets that carried GODs word did that make them gods , equal with the FATHER ?
That you claim Jesus is .
Jesus came to show the way to GOD not to be your GOD .
Click to expand...
You might to re-read John 1:1,1:14,8:58,20:28 and Isa 9:6.
 
Jim harmon said:
They were going to stone him because as you think they also thought he was claiming to be equal with GOD which Isaiah 14:14 speaks of .
But they knew scripture and there is only ONE on the throne .
Because he carried the word of GOD does that make him GOD ?
All the other prophets that carried GODs word did that make them gods , equal with the FATHER ?
That you claim Jesus is .
Jesus came to show the way to GOD not to be your GOD .
Click to expand...
You know I mentioned that your understanding of Scripture is really sad, but I was wrong! Did you read the context of Isaiah 14:14? Let me answer for you, "NO."

Starting at vs12, "How you have fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the earth! So Jim harmon, do you have a clue as to who these verses are referring to?

It's "NOT" Jesus Christ, it's Lucifer himself. In fact at Luke 10:18 Jesus says, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightening. See the dilemma you have put yourself in when you "rip" verses out of their context (because you don't read the context) and you apply verses to your "heretical" opinion. So, please tell all of us here how your going to reconcile your position with the text? PS: If Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and is not God how was it that He saw Lucifer fall from heaven?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
jamesh said:
You know I mentioned that your understanding of Scripture is really sad, but I was wrong! Did you read the context of Isaiah 14:14? Let me answer for you, "NO."

Starting at vs12, "How you have fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the earth! So Jim harmon, do you have a clue as to who these verses are referring to?

It's "NOT" Jesus Christ, it's Lucifer himself. In fact at Luke 10:18 Jesus says, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightening. See the dilemma you have put yourself in when you "rip" verses out of their context (because you don't read the context) and you apply verses to your "heretical" opinion. So, please tell all of us here how your going to reconcile your position with the text? PS: If Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and is not God how was it that He saw Lucifer fall from heaven?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Click to expand...
Sounds like you maybe the one not reading text .
Bet if asked , without looking you will say it was Satan , a rebellious Angel that fell .

Isaiah 14:16
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Does it not say
this the MAN .

If I were you I would not be going around calling one of GODS creations EVIL .
GOD created ALL
You , me , earth , heaven , the adversary Satan .
All does the will of GOD , to accomplish HIS will.
Even if you think it evil or good .
Who are you to judge GOD or any of his creations.
 
jamesh said:
You know I mentioned that your understanding of Scripture is really sad, but I was wrong! Did you read the context of Isaiah 14:14? Let me answer for you, "NO."

Starting at vs12, "How you have fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the earth! So Jim harmon, do you have a clue as to who these verses are referring to?

It's "NOT" Jesus Christ, it's Lucifer himself. In fact at Luke 10:18 Jesus says, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightening. See the dilemma you have put yourself in when you "rip" verses out of their context (because you don't read the context) and you apply verses to your "heretical" opinion. So, please tell all of us here how your going to reconcile your position with the text? PS: If Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and is not God how was it that He saw Lucifer fall from heaven?

IN GOD THE SON,
Click to expand...
jamesh said:
You know I mentioned that your understanding of Scripture is really sad, but I was wrong! Did you read the context of Isaiah 14:14? Let me answer for you, "NO."

Starting at vs12, "How you have fallen from heaven O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the earth! So Jim harmon, do you have a clue as to who these verses are referring to?

It's "NOT" Jesus Christ, it's Lucifer himself. In fact at Luke 10:18 Jesus says, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightening. See the dilemma you have put yourself in when you "rip" verses out of their context (because you don't read the context) and you apply verses to your "heretical" opinion. So, please tell all of us here how your going to reconcile your position with the text? PS: If Jesus did not preexist His incarnation and is not God how was it that He saw Lucifer fall from heaven?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
Click to expand...
By the way
It is not talking of Lucifer per say.
It is the Lucifer spirit of man .
Does Lucifer have a grave that he is going to be cast out of ?
 
e v e 21 said:
You won't read the OT prophets so there's that....
Click to expand...
I won't? Thats news! The prophecies of has all come to pass in us all who has received from God that what the prophecies are about.

Everyone who is in the old covenant are looking for a messiah to come are they not? I think you call your messiah eden if I am correct, waiting for the laws of it to be restored, which never has left. The only way it is left is if one received from God as Adam did, and Jesus did, Moses, Abraham, 120 did. We are no longer of those laws for eden for we have been restored to Gods kingdom. See Luke 17:20-21. It is within me.
e v e 21 said:
even though what God said to his prophets continues to be relevant..
Click to expand...
Always, but for those prophecies come to pass one has to let them. For the prophecy Jesus gave as a prophet was, God is knocking at your door this day and anyone who will let Him in He will come to you and sup with you and be in you.

Believe it or not Jesus same prophecy holds true today.
e v e 21 said:
right now... having a transcendent context ...
and not the dusty and over with by now history
as you were trained.
Click to expand...
It isn't over by history at all, it is over when you receive from God His same mind and walk in it as He walks in it. It isn't over at all until you become like Him and perfect as He is perfect. BTW is a prophecy from Jesus, fulfillment of it is up to you not God. He already has told you His desire for you to be restored back to Him and be in His same image.
e v e 21 said:
It is not a given that what 'your 'mind' tells you and what God says
are the same.
Click to expand...
Thats for sure evident in your mind for an eden to come when in fact He is at your door this day knocking waiting to restore you into His same image. All you see of yourself is an ape!
 
Iconoclast said:
No Jim.....there has only been one Incarnation, which you do not understand yet.
God who is Spirit, took upon Himself, a body of flesh.
Hebrews2. Phil2

Gary Mac said - Incarnate means God coming into man from the outward inward. God is incarnate in all who will receive Him within. The kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is within you, Luke 17:20-21. Jesus referred to this incarnation as born again.

God takes on your body of flesh, anointed of God who is a Spirit which is Christ n you, you anointed of God.

Jesus became incarnate in Matt 3:16, that is when God came to Him by His Spirit and opened up who He is and all of His heaven to that man just as He does in us all who has received Him.
 
Iconoclast said:
Mockers, Scoffers, and cult members laugh at passages they need to believe in.
As more churches substitute entertainment for doctrine the result is people who laugh at
Crucial teaching.
Click to expand...
Man I know what ya mean. Most scoff at when Jesus gave a command to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, and they scoff Jesus when he said the kingdom fo God doesnt come with observation, it is within you Luke 17:20-21. These are still looking for a physical kingdom to come someday instead of looking at where it really is LOL.

And when 1 John 3:9 is quoted, they scoff and say you cant be without sin, then quote 1 John 1 if you say you are without sin makes you a liar in which they take completely out of context, but in reality we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin just as the crucial teachings of it.

And they scoff when you quote Jesus when he said in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you.

And they scoff when you quote Gen 3:22 when Adam became like God to know the difference from flesh, carnality, from Spirit as God opens it up to all who will. He opens the same thing in Jesus in Matt 3:16, 120 in an upper room, same in Abraham, Moses , and all today who will receive Him as these did to know this difference.

They scoff when you quote Matt 3:16 where God came to Jesus by His Spirit and reveals Himself to Jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man. They dont believe Matt 3:16 for they have made Jesus a god instead. They cant relate to what transpired between Jesus and God from lack in receieveing the very same as Jesus did from Him as God commands if you are to be in Him and He in you as one in John 17.

And they scoff when you quote John 17 where Jesus prayed to his God for Him to be in you and you inHim as one as He was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him as one.

And they scoff at John 1 where the word became flesh, our flesh where the kingdom fo God doesnt come with observation but is within you.

These really do laugh at these crucial teachings I agree with you!
 
Jim harmon said:
Jesus
Jesus is just a messenger of the word of GOD not GOD .
A son of GOD not GOD the FATHER.
He shows us that when he shows us how to pray .
Matthew 6:9 (KJV) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
He did not say pray to him , but to the FATHER.
Click to expand...
Ridiculous. Jesus is God Incarnate upon the earth - that is and has been the basic Christian teaching for over 2000 years. You are clearly being led astray by whomever is teaching you such things.
 
Jim harmon said:
Why do you even read the Bible then ?
Click to expand...
To read how others perceive God. All the Bible is is man testimonies of mans dealings with God.

Did Jesus need a bible to know God? Which bible did he read that said God came to Mary by His Spirit, or which one did he read where God came to him by the same Spirit and opens up all of His heaven to Jesus as is written by Matt in 3:16?

What bible did Moses read to have God come to him on a mountain?
Which one did Abraham read that God came to him?
How about Adam, what bible did he read when God came to him and he became like Goid to know this difference as is written in a bible?
How about Jesus? What bible did he read where God came to him and opened up all of His heaven to him in Matt 3:16?
Which bible did 120 read when God came to them by His Spirit in an upper room and open up who He is?
Jim harmon said:
Really , your statement here is not worthy of a reply .
Click to expand...
I understand why!
I didnt need as bible for God to come to me and open up who He is and all of His heaven in me, it is by my Spirit Says the Lord and you cant get that from a book at all.

But I will say what was quoted of Jesus in the book that the book is only law, a tutorial to lead you to Christ, and once faith is achieved, we are no longer under that law, KJV says schoolmaster .

Jesus went from teachings these laws in the temples even from a young age until what? God Himself came to that man and opens up who He is and all of His heaven to that ma, Matt 3:16. That doesnt come by a book of laws, it comes by God Himself manifesting Himself in you just as He did Jesus , Adam, Abraham, Moses, Mary, 120, and in us all today who He is manifest in that the book is about.
 
Gary Mac said:
To read how others perceive God. All the Bible is is man testimonies of mans dealings with God.

Did Jesus need a bible to know God? Which bible did he read that said God came to Mary by His Spirit, or which one did he read where God came to him by the same Spirit and opens up all of His heaven to Jesus as is written by Matt in 3:16?

What bible did Moses read to have God come to him on a mountain?
Which one did Abraham read that God came to him?
How about Adam, what bible did he read when God came to him and he became like Goid to know this difference as is written in a bible?
How about Jesus? What bible did he read where God came to him and opened up all of His heaven to him in Matt 3:16?
Which bible did 120 read when God came to them by His Spirit in an upper room and open up who He is?

I understand why!
I didnt need as bible for God to come to me and open up who He is and all of His heaven in me, it is by my Spirit Says the Lord and you cant get that from a book at all.

But I will say what was quoted of Jesus in the book that the book is only law, a tutorial to lead you to Christ, and once faith is achieved, we are no longer under that law, KJV says schoolmaster .

Jesus went from teachings these laws in the temples even from a young age until what? God Himself came to that man and opens up who He is and all of His heaven to that ma, Matt 3:16. That doesnt come by a book of laws, it comes by God Himself manifesting Himself in you just as He did Jesus , Adam, Abraham, Moses, Mary, 120, and in us all today who He is manifest in that the book is about.
Click to expand...
Romans 2:14 (KJV)
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
So without written law man has a law unto himself .
The problems arise when you go from one camp or city to another the laws are not the same .
For instance
In some states you can make a right turn on red .
Others it is illegal.
So lack of better words GOD wants ALL men to walk the way HE prefers.
So HE put it in writing so all could see for themselves.
In time all will live by the same laws .
Exodus 12:49 (KJV)
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
 
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Jim harmon said:
Romans 2:14 (KJV)
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
So without written law man has a law unto himself .
The problems arise when you go from one camp or city to another the laws are not the same .
For instance
In some states you can make a right turn on red .
Others it is illegal.
So lack of better words GOD wants ALL men to walk the way HE prefers.
So HE put it in writing so all could see for themselves.
In time all will live by the same laws .
Exodus 12:49 (KJV)
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Click to expand...
Before I knew God I was an atheist, didnt believe in a god, had no use for one.
But I came to know God before I ever read a bible. I was 27 years old when my wife taught me how to read. We had been married for 4 years, that was in 1974.

Before that all I knew of the Christian God was storied I heard at Christmas and easter and from others trying to save me.

One day, and this was in the early 70s, I said OK if there really is a god as these say then you are going to have to revel yourself to me and that was end of the trial ... until almost 4 years later when God came to me and opens up who He is and all of His heaven to me by His Spirit. Manifestsed Himself in who He really is.

To my surprise when I was able to read the book for myself I read the exact same thing happened in Jesus in Matt 3;16. Same thing happened in Adam where he ate of Gods knowledge and became like Him to know this difference as well. Gen 3:22. Then I read of Abraham how God did the same in him, Moses, very same thing happened in him. Mary received His same Spirit and gave birth to His Christ that is within all who is anointed of God by His Spirit be your own spirit, mind. Then I read where 120 in an upper room received the same Spirit of God all of these did.

That didnt come from a book. But I can write about the event in a book.

Can we examine the law of the book?

The law states, be ye therefore perfect even as your Father unshaven is perfect. How does the end to that law happen?
Walk as He walks in His same light, How does the end to that law happen?
Let this same mind be in you who was in Christ Jesus, How does the end to that law happen?
Be one in the Father with He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was in the father and He was in Jesus as one, How does the end to that law happen?
When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him, 1 John 3. How does the end to that law happen?
Those who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin, 1 John 3:9, How does the end to that law happen?
Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go top the Father for yourself and He will give it you, How does the end to that law happen?

Most do not believe me when I say I could not read or write. I could sign my name and that was about it, I could make out a few words when trying to read but for the most part couldn't make heads or tails of it. In the 90s a preacher gave me an old 286 computer. By practicing I learned to kinda spell, still dont know grammar or spelling and even to this day spellcheck cant recognize many words I try and type. SO I have to ask the wife how to spell a word.

Bottom line is. if one will open his mind to learn something foreign to understanding, there is nothing that can restrict the information except self.

The way I see it is not much different today as was in Jesus day. Laws are established for beliefs, beliefs are not real only speculation, and the only reality of the God of Jesus that he obeyed, and prayed to, and called father, is if He comes to you the very same way He came to all of these just mentioned.

There is no other truth to be had no matter the law, no matter what is written, no matter what one believes of a god. God Himself is the only One who can open up who He is and His heaven into man. Jesus was no exception least one doesnt believe Matt 3:16. And if they dont believe it, they have not received the same witness of the Father that Jesus had of the Father.

Many here in CARM call me blasphemer, antichrist, liar, not of God at all. In that I just smile in comfort knowing Jesus was treated the same for the very same reason and God got His same message in me that He put in Jesus. Most are of the law and not of Spirit.
 
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