1John 5:1 regeneration before faith

The choice to believe the truth or not is of ourselves. That's our part and our responsibility but it's also part of God's Grace. God has graced us with the ability to choose truth or not.

If that doesn't answer your question then please explain the term "Prevenient" (it's new to me) and rephrase your question.
I concur...

We are not Robots or Puppets; we are Free Agents after Grace. We are Satan's robots, slaves and puppets at first...

The reason I ask questions the way I do is partly because after I come to this agreement that you and I have; with other people, they will later continue Posting that people can Believe. They will act as if they do not need Grace; until I raise this up with them again. I get the feeling that if they could deny God's prevening Grace, and stand up for Salvation by Prevenient Faith instead; they would. If they did, they'd believe as Mormons; they are saved by grace, after all they can do. These Posters here want to believe one of the things they can do before they are Graced, is believe. They will deny this; but continue to teach we are able to believe; without mentioning prevening Grace...

The Poster who spoke up before you just did, the one who asked me who does the believing, does this all the time. Perhaps you may catch me reminding you of your agreement about Grace prevening Faith in the future; just like I used to remind him of it, until I got tired of talking to him...
 
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I concur...

We are not Robots or Puppets; we are Free Agents after Grace. We are Satan's robots and puppets at first...
The term "Satan's robots" is correct.
The reason I ask questions the way I do is partly because after I come to this agreement you and I now have with other people, they will later continue Posting that people can Believe. They will act as if they do not need Grace; until I raise this up with them again. I get the feeling that if they could deny God's prevening Grace and stand up for Salvation by Prevenient Faith; they would.
The source of everything good is God Himself.
If they did this, they would believe as Mormons; they are saved by grace, after all they can do. These Posters here want to believe one of the things they can do before they are Graced, is believe. They will deny this; but continue to teach we are able to believe; without mentioning prevening Grace...
That's an interesting observation. Why does Mormon theology necessitate that one's belief is not a gracious gift of God? What Mormon doctrine would it violate?
The Poster who spoke up before you just did, the one who asked me who believes, does this all the time. Perhaps you will catch me reminding you of your agreement about Grace prevening Faith in the future; just like I used to remind him of it until I got tired of talking to him...
I still do not understand his position. I'll ask him also.
 
You enjoy holding seemingly contradictory opinions?
As you can see, my response to Synergy is more lengthy than my response to you. I am looking forward to writing more lengthy responses to you one day. He hasn't asked me anything strange yet; like if I like holding to seemingly contradictory opinions...
 
The term "Satan's robots" is correct.

The source of everything good is God Himself.

That's an interesting observation. Why does Mormon theology necessitate that one's belief is not a gracious gift of God? What Mormon doctrine would it violate?

I still do not understand his position. I'll ask him also.
I'm no expert on Mormonism. I just know it's a quip they promote, which Protestatants use against them; "We are saved by grace, after all WE can DO". The quip basically says Grace is LAST for the Mormon. For the Posters here, if Faith is first, Grace is no longer Grace...

This is why no matter how much they WANT to teach we can Faith first, they will not climb out on that limb; because we ALL know Grace comes first, and they would be Culted...

Theo knows about Mormonism...
 
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I don't understand your question. If it's not for me to understand or to comment on then that's fine.
He is asking if I do the Believing, or does the Gift you mentioned does the Believing for me? He knows I will say I do the Believing, but he wants to turn our discussion in another direction...

By the way, y'all have fun. He will say many things you like, so you will have to try hard to make him talk about this...
 
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Both sides are closer than they think they are; or are closer than people will allow them to be. I have spent a long time developing this notion...

it is a lot if reasoning, which can be helpful... but God is bigger than all schools of thought. so He is wholeness... which I think the Bible speaks of concerning Christ - wholeness of mind, body and spirit.
 
That's very hard to say. Jesus mentioned Repent before Believe and I'm sure He had his reasons. I'll leave it at that.
I believe this as well, for pretty much the same reason. Also, some years ago I realized that the few times in the NT mention faith/belief together with repentance, the repentance always came first (Acts 20:21, Heb 6:1, Matt 21:32).
 
I don't understand your question. If it's not for me to understand or to comment on then that's fine.
The question was for ReverendRV who stated the believing is not of you

so i asked if the believing is not of you who is believing for you
 
The question was for ReverendRV who stated the believing is not of you

so i asked if the believing is not of you who is believing for you
That's not what he said.

He ssked, how can you believe until God gives faith to believe (cf Php1:29).
 
James 2:19: "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!"

According to your "belief is faith" opinion, the demon belief mentioned in James 2:19 is faith! Oh boy!
You don't understand.

Firstly, this (Jas. 2:19) is only belief in the fact that there is one God. This has never saved anyone.

Secondly, words have a semantic range. As an example, "I believe so.", could mean anything from unwavering conviction, to mild opinion and everything in between.

Thirdly, none of this changes the fact that, as I stated, belief and faith are synonyms and are used to translate the same Greek word.

Romans 2:15 says otherwise. Everyone has been given a conscience that he/she is accountable for.

Here is what I posted, to which the above was your response, "In the NT faith/belief (regarding salvation) is more than mere acceptance of the truth of something; it is a living, loving, trusting relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. The unregenerate person has no capacity for this at all; in fact, his nature is diametrically opposed to it."

Here is Rom. 2:11-16 (MKJV)
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law.
13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.
14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves;
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,
16 in a day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

This is, as everyone can see clearly, about being judged according to your works; either by law, or by conscience (if you are ignorant of God's law). It is only unbelievers who are judged in this way and all are guilty before God. Notice also that even doing what is according to your conscience won't help you (not that anyone does this perfectly anyway), because whatever is not of faith is sin, in God's eyes.

The above passage is nothing to do with salvation by grace through faith, except to show the need for it, so it is in no way an answer to what I posted.

Those are people who live according to the flesh. That means that they have seared their conscience and tossed out whatever good God has gifted to them. They were gifted with the tools to believe God (their God-given minds, for one) but they squandered them.
This fiction, pure and simple. I'm not surprised that you have been unable to provide any scriptural evidence for it.
 
That's not what he said.

He ssked, how can you believe until God gives faith to believe (cf Php1:29).
Look again and see where he posted not of you

"Isn't it true that no matter what we call God's Prevenient Gift, our Belief can never ever be Prevenient; since it is not of ourselves but is of the Gift?"
 
I would agree it seems impossible to repent to God, unless you first have the faith to know He exists.
Knowing God exists is knowledge, not faith. You can come to that conclusion, as many unbelievers have, from studying creation and realising that there must be a creator God, due to irreducible complexity in nature. This requires precisely zero faith.

Repentance is a change of mind, which requires a new nature if this change is to turn from sin to God, since the fallen nature loves sin and hates God. As far as I recall, Jesus always put repentance before faith, since a change of mind regarding sin and God is a pre-requisite for a trusting relationship (faith) with him.
 
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