The foundation of all salvation.

fltom said:
First Josheb denied the sinners volition is causal in salvation

second the fact that you cannot be saved without faith shows it is a necessary condition

This is rather basic
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So, I do not. Man is free yet determined.

It is a condition given by the grace of God. What God requires God provides.
 
fltom said:
Mark 11:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

Have faith in God (ἐχετε πιστιν θεου [echete pistin theou]). Objective genitive θεου [theou] as in Gal. 3:26; Rom. 3:22, 26. That was the lesson for the disciples from the curse on the fig tree so promptly fulfilled. See this point explained by Jesus in Matt. 21:21 which see for “this mountain” also.

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Mk 11:22.
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Thats not the only way to translate it of course. Were your going to provide the other possiblities or only those favorable to you position??
 
Reformedguy said:
Lacking evidence such as context. The specialty on your side. Is the context free will?
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You failed to show context contrary to anything I stated

(RV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RHB13r) but without Thy mind I would do nothing; that Thy goodness may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(AKJV-R) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ABU_NT) But without thy consent I desired to do nothing; that thy benefit may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ALT) But I wanted to do nothing without your consent, so that your good [deed] shall not be as by necessity but by a voluntary [action].
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(Bishops) But without thy mynde woulde I do nothyng, that thy benefite shoulde not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly.
(Cepher) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(CGV) but without your mind I would do nothing; that your goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Complete Apostles' Bible) But I wished to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good might not be by necessity, but by being voluntary.
(Darby) but I have wished to do nothing without thy mind, that thy good might not be as of necessity but of willingness:
(Douay-Rheims) D:ModulesBut without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary.
(DRB) But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary.
(EMTV) But I wished to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good might not be by necessity, but by being voluntary.
(JB2000) but I did not want to do anything without thy counsel, that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ECB) and apart from your decision, I will to do naught; that your good not be as of necessity, but voluntarily.
(ERRB) But without apart from thy mind decision, would I will to do nothing naught ; that thy benefit good should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly voluntarily .
(Geneva) But without thy minde woulde I doe nothing, that thy benefite should not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly.
(Noyes NT) but I chose to do nothing without thy consent, that thy benefit may be not as from necessity, but willingly.
(HBIE) But without thy consent I wished to do nothing; that thy benefit may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(LITV) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your good might not be by way of necessity, but by way of willingness.
JUB) but I did not want to do anything without thy counsel, that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJ2000) But without your consent would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJVCNT) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJ3) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your good might not be by way of necessity, but by way of willingness.
(KJV) But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
......................
 
fltom said:
You failed to show context contrary to anything I stated

(RV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity but of free will.
(RHB13r) but without Thy mind I would do nothing; that Thy goodness may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(AKJV-R) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ABU_NT) But without thy consent I desired to do nothing; that thy benefit may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(ALT) But I wanted to do nothing without your consent, so that your good [deed] shall not be as by necessity but by a voluntary [action].
(Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, but one of free-will.
(Bishops) But without thy mynde woulde I do nothyng, that thy benefite shoulde not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly.
(Cepher) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(CGV) but without your mind I would do nothing; that your goodness should not be as of necessity, but of free will.
(Complete Apostles' Bible) But I wished to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good might not be by necessity, but by being voluntary.
(Darby) but I have wished to do nothing without thy mind, that thy good might not be as of necessity but of willingness:
(Douay-Rheims) D:ModulesBut without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary.
(DRB) But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary.
(EMTV) But I wished to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good might not be by necessity, but by being voluntary.
(JB2000) but I did not want to do anything without thy counsel, that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(ECB) and apart from your decision, I will to do naught; that your good not be as of necessity, but voluntarily.
(ERRB) But without apart from thy mind decision, would I will to do nothing naught ; that thy benefit good should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly voluntarily .
(Geneva) But without thy minde woulde I doe nothing, that thy benefite should not be as it were of necessitie, but willingly.
(Noyes NT) but I chose to do nothing without thy consent, that thy benefit may be not as from necessity, but willingly.
(HBIE) But without thy consent I wished to do nothing; that thy benefit may not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(LITV) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your good might not be by way of necessity, but by way of willingness.
JUB) but I did not want to do anything without thy counsel, that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJ2000) But without your consent would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJVCNT) But without your mind would I do nothing; that your benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
(KJ3) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your good might not be by way of necessity, but by way of willingness.
(KJV) But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.
......................
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What is the context? Repeating the verse does not help. What is Paul dealing with?
 
fltom said:
The verse shows all you need to know

free will and necessity are contrary to one another

context cannot change that
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So you offer no context. And they are not contrary to one another. If something is voluntary then its not a necessity. Which is the point of the text. You know if you actually read it.
 
Reformedguy said:
So you offer no context. And they are not contrary to one another. If something is voluntary then its not a necessity. Which is the point of the text. You know if you actually read it.
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You do not need context to see freewill and necessity are contrary to one another

voluntary is a synonym for free will

free will
[ˌfrē ˈwil]

NOUN
  1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
    synonyms:
    volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy · spontaneity · freedom · liberty · voluntarily · willingly · readily · freely · spontaneously ·

thank you for proving my point
 
fltom said:
You do not need context to see freewill and necessity are contrary to one another

voluntary is a synonym for free will

free will
[ˌfrē ˈwil]

NOUN
  1. the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.
    synonyms:
    volition · independence · self-determination · self-sufficiency · autonomy · spontaneity · freedom · liberty · voluntarily · willingly · readily · freely · spontaneously ·

thank you for proving my point
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They are not contrary and with the context you have shown nothing as ususal.

Pauls point is you can give above and beyond what is required freely. CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT
 
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