Circular Reasoning

A new day said:
Rc's are always pointing to the Rcc as savior, or mary as savior. But Sacred Scripture points to Jesus alone.
False statement. Jesus is the Savior, the Messiah, God Incarnate on this earth as the Catholic Church truthfully teaches.
and the rcc, Mary, the pope, good works, the Mass, wafer, water baptism - what am I forgetting?

catholic know little about Him, replace Him with humans, ignore His sacrifice, don't know or understand His word and have no desire to know or understand it. they don't obey His word, they obey words of men.
Jesus is just a 'token savior' to catholics. there is no reality of Him in the rcc.
 
Of course they rely on God's words and if something goes against it then it must be rejected. You institution disobeys God by adding to His word, going beyond His word, and taking away/ignoring scripture. That is breaking commandments and as James clearly states you break one commandment, you break them all (James 2:10).

Please tell us what is above God's word? Please show us where God's word states we should believe men over God? You leaders are false teachers and are bad fruit, so it cannot be anything they have written. Of course we can see that the source of the Marian doctrines come for the fake book POJ. I would prefer God's word over the POJ which even lies about who the author is.
and you are the infallible authority to say this... correct?
 
and the rcc, Mary, the pope, good works, the Mass, wafer, water baptism - what am I forgetting?

catholic know little about Him, replace Him with humans, ignore His sacrifice, don't know or understand His word and have no desire to know or understand it. they don't obey His word, they obey words of men.
Jesus is just a 'token savior' to catholics. there is no reality of Him in the rcc.
as catholics, we believe in Jesus christ, the head, and likewise his body, the church.
 
You have the date wrong and obviously have not thought about what year Jesus was really born in and it wasn't 1AD. So you miscalculate the date of His death. By the way Jesus real body is not a spoiled bad tree which your institution is. You insult Jesus ever time you make out it is His body. You are literally saying Jesus put in your popes that dug up their dead predecessor, had orgies, condoned murder and torture and hid sin.
Jesus real body is the church he established with peter (given the keys to heaven and who denied him 3)) as the first earthly head.
 
Jesus real body is the church he established with peter (given the keys to heaven and who denied him 3)) as the first earthly head.
no, the rcc was not His body of believers back then, nor is it now.

Peter was not the head of all believers, nor was he the head of any catholics. Jesus called the 12 to take His word to the Jews and He called Paul to take it to the Gentiles.

Jesus was the head of all believers then, and He still is now.

there is no 1 earthly leader of all Christians. Jesus is our leader, the Head of His church.

your pope is leader of catholics (some, not all), he isn't the leader of any Christians.
 
and you are the infallible authority to say this... correct?
Oh when you cannot answer, you go back to making nasty accusations and ad hominems. But this is the way RCs love their neighbours. You as expected once again are showing a lack of knowledge of scripture.

Let me see we can trust God's word, so if something goes against it then it is wrong. No need to be an infallible authority. Either God's word is trustworthy and the truth or it is not. I know it is the truth.

John 17:17

Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. In case you don't know it the your word is God's word.
 
Jesus real body is the church he established with peter (given the keys to heaven and who denied him 3)) as the first earthly head.
Yes which is not your evil institution. Peter would have nothing to do with your leaders, who teach false doctrines, rape nuns, condone murder, indulge in orgies, dig up their predecessors, torture, have children outside of wedlock, pedophiles etcc.
 
mica said:
and the rcc, Mary, the pope, good works, the Mass, wafer, water baptism - what am I forgetting?

catholic know little about Him, replace Him with humans, ignore His sacrifice, don't know or understand His word and have no desire to know or understand it. they don't obey His word, they obey words of men.
Jesus is just a 'token savior' to catholics. there is no reality of Him in the rcc.
as catholics, we believe in Jesus christ, the head, and likewise his body, the church.
there's a reason you are called catholics, you believe in and follow the rcc, not Christ.

claiming to believe in Him is just occasional lip service by catholics. their hearts do not know Him, instead they are in bondage to the rcc.

in reality you all believe in and follow the rcc. catholics put the cc and its teachings far above Christ and His word. catholics don't know or understand His word, nor desire to.

Christians not only know Him, but they have a great desire to know His word - to read, study and understand it. they also have the HS to guide them in that.
 
Yes which is not your evil institution. Peter would have nothing to do with your leaders, who teach false doctrines, rape nuns, condone murder, indulge in orgies, dig up their predecessors, torture, have children outside of wedlock, pedophiles etcc.

no, the rcc was not His body of believers back then, nor is it now.

Peter was not the head of all believers, nor was he the head of any catholics. Jesus called the 12 to take His word to the Jews and He called Paul to take it to the Gentiles.

Jesus was the head of all believers then, and He still is now.

there is no 1 earthly leader of all Christians. Jesus is our leader, the Head of His church.

your pope is leader of catholics (some, not all), he isn't the leader of any Christians.

you keep on parroting that. that doesn't make it true. you just parrot what the rcc has taught you, not what His word teaches.
you keep denying and yet you cannot give the name of this one true church.
 
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there's a reason you are called catholics, you believe in and follow the rcc, not Christ.

claiming to believe in Him is just occasional lip service by catholics. their hearts do not know Him, instead they are in bondage to the rcc.

in reality you all believe in and follow the rcc. catholics put the cc and its teachings far above Christ and His word. catholics don't know or understand His word, nor desire to.

Christians not only know Him, but they have a great desire to know His word - to read, study and understand it. they also have the HS to guide them in that.
The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist. The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.” The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him. The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb. “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.” He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride” (CCC 796).
 
Oh when you cannot answer, you go back to making nasty accusations and ad hominems. But this is the way RCs love their neighbours. You as expected once again are showing a lack of knowledge of scripture.

Let me see we can trust God's word, so if something goes against it then it is wrong. No need to be an infallible authority. Either God's word is trustworthy and the truth or it is not. I know it is the truth.

John 17:17

Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. In case you don't know it the your word is God's word.
if not you, who is the infallible living authority?
 
you keep denying and yet you cannot give the name of this one true church.

The Rc church has morphed into something entirely different than what it was when it originally began. When the apostles were alive, they had noted that during their lifetime that false teachings were well and alive, which is why they warned about them. All this is spoken of in Scripture. False doctrine, no matter who it comes from always takes the total focus off of Christ and directs the focus elsewhere, which is why Scripture says, we can recognize false teachers and false teachings by the fruit that each produces.

The teachings we hear from Rc's, are never about Christ, unless its lip service in an attempt to make a doctrine sound truthful. We are always redirected to the Rc magisterium, mary, or saint worship. God is our creator, and Scripture is HIM speaking to us. All humanity gets its morality from God. HE is the one who set the bar on what is right and what is wrong. HE is also the one who inspired the writers of the bible in both the OT and NT to write as they did. God intended for His written word to be understood by all.

Scripture has NOT changed, it remains the same today as it did when the writers penned them. You know that if you believe what we non-rc's have been saying, that a change is required of you. It isn't us, non-rc's that require the change, but the HS. The Rcc does not require change, which is why many still cling to religion, instead of following what Scripture says about the gospel. The true gospel message speaks of change.

The gospel is not hard to understand and neither is the rest of Scripture. Sit down and read it, without reading anything else, just Scripture, all by itself. You will find that, it isn't as difficult as the Rc magisterium has painted it out to be.
 
not only does the bible says the church is his body, but also his bride.

it is not fairy tale.
Yes but Jesus never says that the RCC is it and it is not his bride. Again showing a lack of scriptural knowledge. The bride is spotless and that can never be said about your institution. It is stained by bad fruit that has gone rotten.

Your institution is one big fairy tale with no happy ending.
 
if not you, who is the infallible living authority?
Not your evil institution that is for sure. Jesus is an infallible living authority, The HS and the Father are both infallible living authority. But your institution lies and teaches false doctrines, so it is not infallible at all. So sad for RCs who choose to follow those false doctrines.
 
The Rc catechism itself says verbatim:

105 God is the author of Sacred Scripture.
106 God inspired the human authors of the sacred books
107
The inspired books teach the truth.
the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living
109 In Sacred Scripture, God speaks to man in a human way.
 
you keep denying and yet you cannot give the name of this one true church.
But we can give the name of the one it is not and who pretends to be it. That is your institution.

How do we know because:

1. It fails every scriptural test.
2. It teaches false doctrines which it cannot prove eg praying to the dead, making Mary co this and that, Mary being a PV these are just a few of the false doctrines it teaches.
3. Its leaders lie. They lie to authorities, they teach false doctrines.
4. It produces bad fruit - its leaders rape, have children out of wedlock, harm children, condoned murder, torture, they do not expose sin etc over the centuries. The list of bad fruit it long and covers every century.
5. Its leaders harm the flock.
6. Its leaders throw its victims under the bus.
7. It adds to scripture, it goes beyond scripture and it takes away/ignores scripture.
8. The leaders do not pass the scriptural requirements for leaders.
9. Your leaders are bad examples and not to be followed, an example is the pope blessing the pagan goddess.
10. Your institution is founded by the father of lies, that is why the leaders lie.

Just examples of why your institution is not His church or bride. The real church is the Jesus' church, they come from all denominations and they follow Jesus every day and not man made institutions. The fact you ask what the name is proves it is not your institution.
 
The unity of Christ and the Church, head and members of one Body, also implies the distinction of the two within a personal relationship. This aspect is often expressed by the image of bridegroom and bride. The theme of Christ as Bridegroom of the Church was prepared for by the prophets and announced by John the Baptist. The Lord referred to himself as the “bridegroom.” The Apostle speaks of the whole Church and of each of the faithful, members of his Body, as a bride “betrothed” to Christ the Lord so as to become but one spirit with him. The Church is the spotless bride of the spotless Lamb. “Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her.” He has joined her with himself in an everlasting covenant and never stops caring for her as for his own body:

This is the whole Christ, head and body, one formed from many . . . whether the head or members speak, it is Christ who speaks. He speaks in his role as the head (ex persona capitis) and in his role as body (ex persona corporis). What does this mean? “The two will become one flesh. This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the Church.” And the Lord himself says in the Gospel: “So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” They are, in fact, two different persons, yet they are one in the conjugal union, . . . as head, he calls himself the bridegroom, as body, he calls himself “bride” (CCC 796).
Your institution is not united with Jesus at all. That is a false claim. It ignores Jesus and prefers Mary and the pope. It ignores the word of God, preferring the word of fallible men who do not know the word.
 
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