Why I Have Difficulty Loving and Forgiving Enemies

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Hey, everyone. I come to you fresh off a four or five day much deserved (probably) suspension. I have no way of knowing the specific cause, but it’s most likely due to some rudeness on my part. I may have the record for the most suspensions, and I’m far from being proud of that, but I thought I’d make a post about the impact of my Christiian beliefs upon the nature of my polemical posts, as well as the reverse.

I am well aware that I am strongly encouraged to love my enemies. Now in my past BC days I have known several people whom I would consider my enemy, but it’s been years since that has been the case. Of the many people I now know (in the “real world'') and with whom I come in constant contact, I can truly think of no one whom I need to forgive.The closest I come to thinking of a possible enemy would be my polemical sparring partners here at CARM. So I have to ask myself: IF I stretch the definition of “enemy” and IF Treeplanter, Pixie, 5wize, et al are my enemies, do I hate them? Now it seems to me that true hate would manifest itself in a desire for vengeance, or at least a desire for something detrimental to occur upon these alleged enemies. But I can swear to y’all that that is not the case. Nothing would delight me more than to hear about the spiritual conversion of one of these guys.

So how do my rude barbs toward these wise guys who blast and sometimes even blaspheme my Lord facilitate a conversion? They don’t. But do they impede conversions? If for example Treeplanter pulls one of his patented and tiresome comments out of his very limited rhetorical quiver accusing my beloved Lord and Savior of being an “immoral thug,” and I respond by calling him a shallow and petulant jerk, is that an expression of hate on my part? Before responding, should I think to myself, “Maybe if I call him a jerk, it will further harden his heart, so let me be nice to him. Let him see me rolling over.” To think he could be so easily swayed about something of such existential importance would manifest an even lower opinion of him than I currently have.

When Jesus called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers” and when He overturned the moneychanger’s tables was He being unchristian?

Besides the facial ones, do there also exist two rhetorical cheeks, one of which should be turned if the other is attacked? “Oh, so you just called me a gullible fool? Don’t forget, I’m also a shallow idiot.”

Obviously I cannot myself be so pharisaical as to claim that I LOVE Treeplanter, but I do pray for him daily, so I can’t think of myself as hating him, can I? My prayers FEEL sincere at least. I think I love him, albeit ever so minimally.

It’s weird, but when my thoughts have gone misleading, I sometimes wish that just like in my younger days (BC), someone would do me wrong, so that I could at least test myself to determine if I have it in me to forgive. But dang it, I just don’t HAVE any enemies.
 
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Hey, everyone. I come to you fresh off a four or five day much deserved (probably) suspension. I have no way of knowing the specific cause, but it’s most likely due to some rudeness on my part. I may have the record for the most suspensions, and I’m far from being proud of that, but I thought I’d make a post about the impact of my Christiian beliefs upon the nature of my polemical posts, as well as the reverse.

I am well aware that I am strongly encouraged to love my enemies. Now in my past BC days I have known several people whom I would consider my enemy, but it’s been years since that has been the case. Of the many people I now know (in the “real world'') and with whom I come in constant contact, I can truly think of no one whom I need to forgive.The closest I come to thinking of a possible enemy would be my polemical sparring partners here at CARM. So I have to ask myself: IF I stretch the definition of “enemy” and IF Treeplanter, Pixie, 5wize, et al are my enemies, do I hate them? Now it seems to me that true hate would manifest itself in a desire for vengeance, or at least a desire for something detrimental to occur upon these alleged enemies. But I can swear to y’all that that is not the case. Nothing would delight me more than to hear about the spiritual conversion of one of these guys.

So how do my rude barbs toward these wise guys who blast and sometimes even blaspheme my Lord facilitate a conversion? They don’t. But do they impede conversions? If for example Treeplanter pulls one of his patented and tiresome comments out of his very limited rhetorical quiver accusing my beloved Lord and Savior of being an “immoral thug,” and I respond by calling him a shallow and petulant jerk, is that an expression of hate on my part? Before responding, should I think to myself, “Maybe if I call him a jerk, it will further harden his heart, so let me be nice to him. Let him see me rolling over.” To think he could be so easily swayed about something of such existential importance would manifest an even lower opinion of him than I currently have.

When Jesus called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers” and when He overturned the moneychanger’s tables was He being unchristian?

Besides the facial ones, do there also exist two rhetorical cheeks, one of which should be turned if the other is attacked? “Oh, so you just called me a gullible fool? Don’t forget, I’m also a shallow idiot.”

Obviously I cannot myself be so pharisaical as to claim that I LOVE Treeplanter, but I do pray for him daily, so I can’t think of myself as hating him, can I? My prayers FEEL sincere at least. I think I love him, albeit ever so minimally.

It’s weird, but when my thoughts have gone misleading, I sometimes wish that just like in my younger days (BC), someone would do me wrong, so that I could at least test myself to determine if I have it in me to forgive. But dang it, I just don’t HAVE any enemies.
Aww, that's sweet, stigs

I very, very minimally love you too
 
I guess an enemy is in the eye of the beholder. I can't say I have any unless they appear and tell me "Hey man, just so you know, I'm you're enemy"

Jesus did also note some being twice the sons of hell verses others, so jerk seems tame, though perhaps less accurate. I can truly say I would rather be a jerk than a son of hell

I have used drooling as my other rhetorical cheek. As in, not only am I stupid, I drool too. I give them both cheeks, one could say.

I can say I love tree planter. For one, I like trees, they bring shade and toothpicks. And I have patience for those who oppose themselves. Call it a quirk or something.
 
I guess an enemy is in the eye of the beholder. I can't say I have any unless they appear and tell me "Hey man, just so you know, I'm you're enemy"

Jesus did also note some being twice the sons of hell verses others, so jerk seems tame, though perhaps less accurate. I can truly say I would rather be a jerk than a son of hell

I have used drooling as my other rhetorical cheek. As in, not only am I stupid, I drool too. I give them both cheeks, one could say.

I can say I love tree planter. For one, I like trees, they bring shade and toothpicks. And I have patience for those who oppose themselves. Call it a quirk or something.
From my perspective, it's Christians who are opposing themselves and if I didn't have love for them I wouldn't bother trying to open their eyes
 
From my perspective, it's Christians who are opposing themselves and if I didn't have love for them I wouldn't bother trying to open their eyes

LOL. I'm picturing Stevie Wonder fumbling with his hands on the face of someone, feeling around, trying to locate the eyes, while singing. "If you really loved me ......." Thanks for the comical imagery.
 
LOL. I'm picturing Stevie Wonder fumbling with his hands on the face of someone, feeling around, trying to locate the eyes, while singing. "If you really loved me ......." Thanks for the comical imagery.
Christianity is a life negating faith, stiggy
One that posits the worthlessness of humanity {apart from the blood covering of Christ}

If embracing this is not the epitome of opposing one's self, then I don't know what is...

Glad that you were able to conjure up some comical imagery of a blind man groping for eyes, but you'd be better served to take my words to heart
 
Christianity is a life negating faith, stiggy
One that posits the worthlessness of humanity

Gosh, since He gave us such a beautiful world filled with amber waves of grain, fruited plains and purple mountains majesty and oceans white with foam, along with dogs and cats for companions and sweetly singing nightingales swarming the skies, just IMAGINE if He DIDN'T think we were worthless.
 
Gosh, since He gave us such a beautiful world filled with amber waves of grain, fruited plains and purple mountains majesty and oceans white with foam, along with dogs and cats for companions and sweetly singing nightingales swarming the skies, just IMAGINE if He DIDN'T think we were worthless.
Here we go again, it's A-OK by you that God gave us that which is horrific because He also gave us that which is delightful

Somehow, I think you'd be singing a different tune were we talking about anyone other than God
As if you'd be cool with Hitler murdering millions of Jews had he done something equally beneficial for millions of gentiles...
 
Here we go again, it's A-OK by you that God gave us that which is horrific because He also gave us that which is delightful

He gave me nothing that is horrific. The View doesn't count, since He also gave me the freedom to turn it off.

Somehow, I think you'd be singing a different tune were we talking about anyone other than God

Like who? I can't imagine, say Pauly Shore as having created coffee. But if he had, I would surely give him credit.

As if you'd be cool with Hitler murdering millions of Jews had he done something equally beneficial for millions of gentiles...

HITLER? You think Hitler created GOOD stuff? What good stuff are you thinking Hitler created? He didn't even create that mustache. Charlie Chaplin did.
 
Hey, everyone. I come to you fresh off a four or five day much deserved (probably) suspension. I have no way of knowing the specific cause, but it’s most likely due to some rudeness on my part. I may have the record for the most suspensions, and I’m far from being proud of that, but I thought I’d make a post about the impact of my Christiian beliefs upon the nature of my polemical posts, as well as the reverse.

I am well aware that I am strongly encouraged to love my enemies. Now in my past BC days I have known several people whom I would consider my enemy, but it’s been years since that has been the case. Of the many people I now know (in the “real world'') and with whom I come in constant contact, I can truly think of no one whom I need to forgive.The closest I come to thinking of a possible enemy would be my polemical sparring partners here at CARM. So I have to ask myself: IF I stretch the definition of “enemy” and IF Treeplanter, Pixie, 5wize, et al are my enemies, do I hate them? Now it seems to me that true hate would manifest itself in a desire for vengeance, or at least a desire for something detrimental to occur upon these alleged enemies. But I can swear to y’all that that is not the case. Nothing would delight me more than to hear about the spiritual conversion of one of these guys.

So how do my rude barbs toward these wise guys who blast and sometimes even blaspheme my Lord facilitate a conversion? They don’t. But do they impede conversions? If for example Treeplanter pulls one of his patented and tiresome comments out of his very limited rhetorical quiver accusing my beloved Lord and Savior of being an “immoral thug,” and I respond by calling him a shallow and petulant jerk, is that an expression of hate on my part? Before responding, should I think to myself, “Maybe if I call him a jerk, it will further harden his heart, so let me be nice to him. Let him see me rolling over.” To think he could be so easily swayed about something of such existential importance would manifest an even lower opinion of him than I currently have.

When Jesus called the Pharisees a “brood of vipers” and when He overturned the moneychanger’s tables was He being unchristian?

Besides the facial ones, do there also exist two rhetorical cheeks, one of which should be turned if the other is attacked? “Oh, so you just called me a gullible fool? Don’t forget, I’m also a shallow idiot.”

Obviously I cannot myself be so pharisaical as to claim that I LOVE Treeplanter, but I do pray for him daily, so I can’t think of myself as hating him, can I? My prayers FEEL sincere at least. I think I love him, albeit ever so minimally.

It’s weird, but when my thoughts have gone misleading, I sometimes wish that just like in my younger days (BC), someone would do me wrong, so that I could at least test myself to determine if I have it in me to forgive. But dang it, I just don’t HAVE any enemies.
Here's a thought for you...

It sounds like your focus is on the wrong side of things.

By focusing on Jesus, it makes loving our enemies possible.

Heb 12:2 WEB looking to Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising its shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Col 3:1-4 WEB 1 If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory.
 
He gave me nothing that is horrific. The View doesn't count, since He also gave me the freedom to turn it off.
Despite whatever good you managed to take from it, your wife's unfortunate illness and demise wasn't horrific?

Yeah, He gave us oceans white with foam, but He also gave us great white sharks that maim and kill - turning the oceans red
Sure, He gave us dogs and cats for companions, but He also gave us fleas and rats that spread disease and death

HITLER? You think Hitler created GOOD stuff? What good stuff are you thinking Hitler created? He didn't even create that mustache. Charlie Chaplin did.
I'm left to wonder what the probability is that when you claimed that I "think Hitler created good stuff" that you KNEW that that was untrue, or rather was it an honest hallucination on your part?
{Sound familiar?}

What I said, stiggy, is that you would NOT forgive Hitler for doing wrong to some just because he might also have done something good for others

You do, however, make this exception for God
How come?
 
Despite whatever good you managed to take from it, your wife's unfortunate illness and demise wasn't horrific?

The subject is what GOD created. Pay attention.

Yeah, He gave us oceans white with foam, but He also gave us great white sharks .........

Excellent example. Glorious and interesting creatures. Thanks. And the tigers that William Blake gushed over.

Sure, He gave us dogs and cats for companions, but He also gave us fleas and rats that spread disease and death

And DDT to kill 'em off, until man stupidly banned it.

I'm left to wonder what the probability is that when you claimed that I "think Hitler created good stuff" that you KNEW that that was untrue, or rather was it an honest hallucination on your part?

That'd be the former, Bob. But word has it that he did get the railroads to run on time, since you do seem to be looking for a reason to praise him. No, wait. That was Mussolini. Can't think of anything to praise Hitler for. You're on your own with that one.

What I said, stiggy, is that you would NOT forgive Hitler for doing wrong to some just because he might also have done something good for others

Especially if he gassed my parents. Then I WOULD have the enemy I suggested I was looking for in my OP.

You do, however, make this exception for God

Don't need to. He's never done me wrong.
 
He's never done me wrong.
He's done each of us wrong, stiggy

He created each of us, post Adam and Eve, incapable of living perfectly sinless lives and then chooses to punish us for being the way He consciously and purposefully chose for us to be - unless, of course, we choose to praise Him for this sterling plan...
 
Glorious and interesting creatures.
As glorious and interesting as great white sharks may be, God created a beast who's sole purpose is to indiscriminately feed and reproduce so that the next generation might also indiscriminately feed - even upon hapless human beings

How does this speak positively of a god who supposedly loves human beings?
 
Explain how it is good, righteous, just, and loving to create us incapable of living perfectly sinless lives?

Explain how it is good, righteous, just, and loving to punish us for being incapable of living perfectly sinless lives when that is the way He made us?
 
As glorious and interesting as great white sharks may be, God created a beast who's sole purpose is to indiscriminately feed and reproduce so that the next generation might also indiscriminately feed - even upon hapless human beings

All creatures feed. When you eat a hamburger do you bewail the plight of the cow? Not I. I praise God for making cows so tasty. It must suck being you.
 
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