John 15:24 + 25 - Hating Christ without cause

[guest1]

Er Luke 7:30 is not my passage

I stated

Nope

Luke is not stating they are the same

and your comments do not really seem to equate them

in reference to my original comment

fltom said:
Some Calvinists confound foreknowledge and determination

and your comment

Act 2:23 this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men.

Yes the typical projection , equivocating, conflating etc

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Y

Yes it was predetermined meticulously for them to do so much like it has been predetermined that I reject the false teachings of tulip. I had no choice ?

Calvinists will ignore what you are saying and how it applies to their doctrine and then pretend that they did some logical process that proved you wrong, But it is just denial.

 

[guest1]

Calvinists will ignore what you are saying and how it applies to their doctrine and then pretend that they did some logical process that proved you wrong, But it is just denial.

Exactly they know what I’m saying is true because it’s what the WCF and Calvin taught . They just deny it / hate it because it’s coming from me.

 

[fltom]

Calvinists will ignore what you are saying and how it applies to their doctrine and then pretend that they did some logical process that proved you wrong, But it is just denial.

You nailed it

 

[guest1]

You nailed it

Indeed he did

 

[Bocco]

Er Luke 7:30 is not my passage

You are right, it was Dizerner.

Some Calvinists confound foreknowledge and determination

That depends upon your definition of foreknowledge. If to you it simply means "knowing something beforehand" then yes, they are confounded.

But I think the "know" part is deeper than just cognizance (Conscious knowledge or recognition; awareness.) I think it is a knowledge like used in Jeremiah:
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

It sure seems like the "know" here is equivalent to consecrate or appoint.

 

[fltom]

You are right, it was Dizerner.

That depends upon your definition of foreknowledge. If to you it simply means "knowing something beforehand" then yes, they are confounded.

But I think the "know" part is deeper than just cognizance (Conscious knowledge or recognition; awareness.) I think it is a knowledge like used in Jeremiah:
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

It sure seems like the "know" here is equivalent to consecrate or appoint.

I don't think so

even if by know you speak of a loving relationship

it still does not mean determine

 

[Bocco]

even if by know you speak of a loving relationship

it still does not mean determine

Okay.

 

[fltom]

Okay.

yes

 

[Theo1689]

You are right, it was Dizerner.

That depends upon your definition of foreknowledge. If to you it simply means "knowing something beforehand" then yes, they are confounded.

But I think the "know" part is deeper than just cognizance (Conscious knowledge or recognition; awareness.) I think it is a knowledge like used in Jeremiah:
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

It sure seems like the "know" here is equivalent to consecrate or appoint.

You might find this useful:

  - The Biblical idea of "know"

One of the problems of interpreting text from another language is that words don't always have a perfect one-to-one correspondence between the source and target languages. Elementary lexicons will usually give a "gloss", which is generally a literal, or most common meaning of a term, but not...

forums.carm.org

 

[ReverendRV]

Calvinists will ignore what you are saying and how it applies to their doctrine and then pretend that they did some logical process that proved you wrong, But it is just denial.

Hey Alexander, how is your day so far?

 

[fltom]

You might find this useful:

  - The Biblical idea of "know"

One of the problems of interpreting text from another language is that words don't always have a perfect one-to-one correspondence between the source and target languages. Elementary lexicons will usually give a "gloss", which is generally a literal, or most common meaning of a term, but not...

forums.carm.org

Doesn't help you

know does not mean to chose

 

[guest1]

Doesn't help you

know does not mean to chose

Lol the conflating continues

 

[Theo1689]

Doesn't help you

know does not mean to chose

BDAG:

προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29.

 

[guest1]

Out comes the cherry ? picking lol

 

[fltom]

BDAG:

προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth.
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29.

Sorry the context does not support that

And you commit the fallacy of an appeal to authority

Knew before in the past

Men who loved God and died and were glorified

Romans 8:28–30 (ESV) — 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It's not looking foward but backwards

as here

Romans 11:2–4 (ESV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

 

[guest1]

Sorry the context does not support that

And you commit the fallacy of an appeal to authority

Knew before in the past

Men who loved God and died and were glorified

Romans 8:28–30 (ESV) — 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It's not looking foward but backwards

as here

Romans 11:2–4 (ESV) — 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

Yes one fallacy after another all meticulously predetermined ?

 

[Theo1689]

Sorry the context does not support that

And you commit the fallacy of an appeal to authority

<Chuckle>

So when it suits you, you quote BDAG freely.
But when it goes against your theology, suddently it's "an appeal to authority".

Whatever.

 

[guest1]

What’s good for the goose ?

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Hey Alexander, how is your day so far?

hello Rev. thanks for the friendly text. I am quite well and have had an excellent day. Hope things are good for you as well.