Why the Anomaly?

Janice Bower said:
MORMONISM: Everyone always existed. They were called "intelligences." The "heavenly parents" made them into spirit children that looked like humans, but they didn't have flesh and bones. Satan and his followers are never going to have flesh and bones. If mortals are obedient enough to become gods, they are said to be "from everlasting to everlasting." (A verse in Doctrine and Covenants 132.)

Only those who are worthy priesthood holders have the Mormon god's authority to baptize. That is the only priesthood that their god approves of.
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I think you meant to say, that is the only baptism that their God approves of. But other than that I agree with your post it looks pretty good. So what's the problem?
 
Janice Bower said:
LDS speak sentences that contradict your own scriptures. So you don't care that D&C 130 says all blessings are the reward for obedience to those laws. Sometimes you teach one thing, sometimes another.
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No, we agree that all blessings are the result of obedience to the laws and those blessings are predicated upon. No one has ever denied that. But they're is a difference between a blessing and a gift.

That appears to be something you are unwilling to recognize that there is a difference. From that point, it's a matter of interpretation.
 
CrowCross said:
me....The mormons inform us....there is no salvation unless you're a mormon.


You consider any doctrine that goes against LDS doctrine...is false...demonstrating my statement above..."The mormons inform us....there is no salvation unless you're a mormon."
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Not all the Christian doctrine is false, the scriptures are the word of God and man has corrupted them by adding to them or leaving out important doctrine. Not true, just because you not LDS does not exclude you from the Kingdom of God, thus important saving work is being performed in our temples...
 
Magdalena said:
“Not everything that’s true is useful.” ~ Dallin Oaks, Reading Church History



If someone is telling the truth about mormonism, you are justified in slandering them and lying about it to try to protect its reputation and limit the influence of the truth being told.
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Just as Christians will defend the Triune God or one God, when critics point out the fallacy of that, you guys will go on the defensive... same thing Magdalena...
 
Magdalena said:
“Not everything that’s true is useful.” ~ Dallin Oaks, Reading Church History

“My duty as a member of the Council of the Twelve is to protect what is most unique about the LDS church, namely the authority of priesthood, testimony regarding the restoration of the gospel, and the divine mission of the Savior. Everything may be sacrificed in order to maintain the integrity of those essential facts. Thus, if Mormon Enigma reveals information that is detrimental to the reputation of Joseph Smith, then it is necessary to try to limit its influence and that of its authors.”
Dallin H. Oaks, Apostle Dallin Oaks, footnote 28, Inside the Mind of Joseph Smith: Psychobiography and the Book of Mormon, Introduction p. xliii

According to one of your prophets, the truth may be sacrificed if it doesn’t help protect Joseph Smith and mormonism.

If someone is telling the truth about mormonism, you are justified in slandering them and lying about it to try to protect its reputation and limit the influence of the truth being told.
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That is just about the most incredible information I've seen! Thank you, Magdalena ---5 stars!
 
Richard7 said:
Just as Christians will defend the Triune God or one God, when critics point out the fallacy of that, you guys will go on the defensive... same thing Magdalena...
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No. Oaks justified lying, and slandering people who tell the truth about mormonism. That’s not the same thing.
 
Richard7 said:
Not all the Christian doctrine is false, the scriptures are the word of God and man has corrupted them by adding to them or leaving out important doctrine. Not true, just because you not LDS does not exclude you from the Kingdom of God, thus important saving work is being performed in our temples...
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Your statement above is false. I have presented you LDS material that says you must be baptized by a mormon priest.

That means ONLY mormons can enter into the kingdom of God.
 
CrowCross said:
Your statement above is false. I have presented you LDS material that says you must be baptized by a mormon priest.

That means ONLY mormons can enter into the kingdom of God.
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Tell that to the Billions of dead men and women... the only way you can enter the Kingdom of God is by Faith, Repentance, Baptism and Confirmation... Were the 12 apostles of Christ baptized into the LDS Church... no, they were baptized into the Kingdom of God by Christ and John the Baptist and all the disciples of Christ were baptized by authority given to worthy Priest who held the Melchezdeck Priesthood..
 
Richard7 said:
Just as Christians will defend the Triune God or one God, when critics point out the fallacy of that, you guys will go on the defensive... same thing Magdalena...
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Not the same thing at all. The true God is the Holy Trinity. There is no other God. When non-Christians oppose our God on Carm, we defend truth.

Galatians 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Psalm 119
11Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.



Doctrine and Covenants 130
Section 130
1–3, The Father and the Son may appear personally to men; 4–7, Angels reside in a celestial sphere; 8–9, The celestial earth will be a great Urim and Thummim; 10–11, A white stone is given to all who enter the celestial world; 12–17, The time of the Second Coming is withheld from the Prophet; 18–19, Intelligence gained in this life rises with us in the Resurrection; 20–21, All blessings come by obedience to law; 22–23, The Father and the Son have bodies of flesh and bones.

Doctrine and Covenants 130

Items of instruction given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Ramus, Illinois, April 2, 1843.
www.churchofjesuschrist.org
 
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Magdalena said:
No. Oaks justified lying, and slandering people who tell the truth about mormonism. That’s not the same thing.
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Now now. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not true. If you have found a discrepancy and disagree with someone who is a church member, I'd say what you think we believe would always take a backseat to what we say we believe, and that goes doubly true for Oaks.
 
CrowCross said:
Your statement above is false. I have presented you LDS material that says you must be baptized by a mormon priest.
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You're view of it is incorrect. You claim that one must be a Mormon. That's not true. One must be a follower of Christ. He said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are baptized. John had authority to baptize. Jesus, God, went to him to be baptized. Where can we find one like John? Well, certainly not in the protestant churches because they don't have any priesthood. Now we just have to find someone who has the priesthood.
 
brotherofJared said:
You're view of it is incorrect. You claim that one must be a Mormon. That's not true. One must be a follower of Christ. He said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are baptized. John had authority to baptize. Jesus, God, went to him to be baptized. Where can we find one like John? Well, certainly not in the protestant churches because they don't have any priesthood. Now we just have to find someone who has the priesthood.
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That’s not true. In mormonism, everyone must be baptized and confirmed Mormon. That’s why you do that temple work.
 
dberrie said:---I believe you are confusing God's grace unto eternal life, as a personal reception--with His Atonement. The LDS believe His Atonement was and is a free gift to all men--no obedience nor faith required. Christ alone. Jesus absolved all men of the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--in His Atonement. All men are now "justified of life", as a free gift--IOW--all men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life--because they are now freed from the condemnation of the Fall--which befell all men.

Free gift to all men. Christ alone. Not your faith plus Jesus' Blood. It had to be a perfect sacrifice, and if one added their faith to it--it would then be an imperfect sacrifice.

Could you explain for us why the critics here believe one must do something for that free gift?

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So--where do that leave your accusation of the LDS believing all blessings required obedience of them?

Janice Bower said:
LDS speak sentences that contradict your own scriptures. So you don't care that D&C 130 says all blessings are the reward for obedience to those laws. Sometimes you teach one thing, sometimes another.
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Throwing out claims without any substantiation isn't what I would call the facts.

How are you relating D&C 130--and the fact Jesus Christ Redeemed all mankind from the Fall--as a free gift to all men--found in Romans5:18?

The Law which was satisfied in Romans5:18-- was the perfection of Jesus Christ. The Atonement was based on the satisfaction of that law--perfection. Jesus Christ's perfection.

Where in D&C 130 does it state all laws governing blessings must be completed by imperfect humans?
 
Magdalena said:
In mormonism, everyone must be baptized and confirmed Mormon. That’s why you do that temple work.
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That isn't true. All must become confirmed into the Church of Jesus Christ. That is true for those of all dispensations--including the first century saints.

So--what denomination do you believe the saints were baptized by in the NT--other than the one "church" in the NT history, found in the Biblical NT?

Don't you believe the same accusation was made against the Christians of the first century--which you are making here, other than they probably used the term "Christians" then, instead of your misnomer "Mormon".
 
Richard7 said:
Tell that to the Billions of dead men and women... the only way you can enter the Kingdom of God is by Faith, Repentance, Baptism and Confirmation... Were the 12 apostles of Christ baptized into the LDS Church... no, they were baptized into the Kingdom of God by Christ and John the Baptist and all the disciples of Christ were baptized by authority given to worthy Priest who held the Melchezdeck Priesthood..
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Did you not see the post that showed only mormons can be saved? It described baptism performed by a mormon priest...done in a proper way. That's one of the reasons mormonism is so hypocritical.

Then again baptism doesn't save anyone.
 
dberrie2020 said:
That isn't true. All must become confirmed into the Church of Jesus Christ. That is true for those of all dispensations--including the first century saints.

So--what denomination do you believe the saints were baptized by in the NT--other than the one "church" in the NT history, found in the Biblical NT?

Don't you believe the same accusation was made against the Christians of the first century--which you are making here, other than they probably used the term "Christians" then, instead of your misnomer "Mormon".
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Mormons don't worship God and weren't involved in anything in the first century.
 
dberrie2020 said:
dberrie said:---I believe you are confusing God's grace unto eternal life, as a personal reception--with His Atonement. The LDS believe His Atonement was and is a free gift to all men--no obedience nor faith required. Christ alone. Jesus absolved all men of the condemnation brought to all men due to the Fall--in His Atonement. All men are now "justified of life", as a free gift--IOW--all men now have the opportunity to inherit eternal life--because they are now freed from the condemnation of the Fall--which befell all men.

Free gift to all men. Christ alone. Not your faith plus Jesus' Blood. It had to be a perfect sacrifice, and if one added their faith to it--it would then be an imperfect sacrifice.

Could you explain for us why the critics here believe one must do something for that free gift?

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

So--where do that leave your accusation of the LDS believing all blessings required obedience of them?



Throwing out claims without any substantiation isn't what I would call the facts.

How are you relating D&C 130--and the fact Jesus Christ Redeemed all mankind from the Fall--as a free gift to all men--found in Romans5:18?

The Law which was satisfied in Romans5:18-- was the perfection of Jesus Christ. The Atonement was based on the satisfaction of that law--perfection. Jesus Christ's perfection.

Where in D&C 130 does it state all laws governing blessings must be completed by imperfect humans?
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I didn't say anything like "all laws governing blessings must be completed by imperfect humans." And I refuse to play games with you.
 
brotherofJared said:
You're view of it is incorrect. You claim that one must be a Mormon. That's not true. One must be a follower of Christ. He said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are baptized. John had authority to baptize. Jesus, God, went to him to be baptized. Where can we find one like John? Well, certainly not in the protestant churches because they don't have any priesthood. Now we just have to find someone who has the priesthood.
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If you're not baptized by a mormon....you can't be saved.


Your own LDS people say if a person is baptized and a corner of their clothing isn't immersed....the baptism must be performed again.
Here.
  1. All ordinances must be performed by the authority of the priesthood. Only brethren who hold the necessary priesthood and are worthy should perform or stand in the circle for an ordinance.

Baptism​

The ordinance of baptism is performed only by a worthy priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder under the direction of the presiding authority. The priesthood holder:

  1. Stands in the water with the person to be baptized.
  2. (For convenience and safety) holds the person’s right wrist with his left hand; the person being baptized holds the priesthood holder’s left wrist with his or her left hand.
  3. Raises his right arm to the square.
  4. States the person’s full name and says, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen” (D&C 20:73).
  5. Has the person hold his or her nose with the right hand (for convenience); then the priesthood holder places his right hand high on the person’s back and immerses the person completely, including the person’s clothing.
  6. Helps the person come up out of the water.
Each baptism must be witnessed by two priests or Melchizedek Priesthood holders, who make sure it is performed properly. The baptism must be repeated if the prayer was not stated accurately or if part of the body or clothing of the person being baptized was not immersed completely.
 
CrowCross said:
Did you not see the post that showed only mormons can be saved? It described baptism performed by a mormon priest...done in a proper way. That's one of the reasons mormonism is so hypocritical.

Then again baptism doesn't save anyone.
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Chuckle, there were no Mormon Priest during the NT times...

Why not just throw out baptism, it's not essential so why talk about it... Faith alone saves one to salvation and Baptism is just a ceremony that lets others know you are what? did what? believe what?
 
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