The atheist delusion.

[mikeT]

I have already told you that I am not referring to nor denoting "false beliefs" in relation to the truth and reality.

Yes. You are. The entire thread has been spent explaining this to you, and you ignore all of it. As you must.

You hold a false belief as real.

You believe false beliefs aren't real, and you are wrong.

 

[Tercon]

You hold a false belief as real.

You believe false beliefs aren't real, and you are wrong.

You're a walking contradiction.

 

[Temujin]

If I believe that justified true beliefs are knowledge of the truth and reality; is this belief a justified true belief that represents the truth and denotes reality?

Those of your beliefs that are true and justified, represent knowledge (subject to the exceptions detailed in your link.) However, not all of your beliefs are true or justified. You may believe that they are, but this belief is false. We all of us carry a basket of beliefs, some of which are true and some of which are false. We carry them in the same basket because we personally cannot tell which are true and which are false. Other people, with access to different information, can tell us which are true and which are false. We can listen to them, learn, and shift false beliefs out of the belief basket. But there will always be some beliefs, for everyone of us, for which the information is not readily available and which we cannot truly know are true.

Most people are able to acknowledge this truth. They can see that some of the beliefs they hold have very little justification, and while they hold them to be true, they cannot in conscience condemn those who call them false beliefs. Belief itself brings no information or evidence. It doesn't confirm or refute anything. It is merely an indication of the state of mind of the believer. The only truth that a belief can show is that the believer believes it. Belief by itself is impotent. It doesn't affect the real world outside the mind of the believer at all. It is a consequence, not a cause. It brings an understanding of the real world to the mind of the believer, but that is all it does. And that understanding may be mistaken.

 

[Temujin]

You're a walking contradiction.

The contradiction is yours. You have a particular belief,a real belief that you consider to be true, that false beliefs are not real.

This real belief of yours is false. It is objectively not true that false beliefs are real. False beliefs are all over the place. It is probable that every person on the planet holds false beliefs, believing them to be true.

Real does not mean the same thing as true.

The belief referred to in the first paragraph is false. It is itself an example of its own falsity. The walking contradiction is you. The contradiction has been pointed out to you over a period of years, in thousands of posts. That you still hold to it merely illustrates further the power, and the reality, of false beliefs.

 

[TeabagSalad]

You mean of course "false beliefs" "can be wrong". But I have already told you that I am not referring to nor denoting "false beliefs" in relation to the truth and reality. Are you?

When I speak about something I believe or my belief; I am always referring to and denoting a justified true belief and something I know to true in reality.

But will you at least admit that justified true beliefs are beliefs that represent the truth and denote reality?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

A belief can be true or false - it doesn't matter which it is still a belief.

 

[Eightcrackers]

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

A belief can be true or false - it doesn't matter which it is still a belief.

The OP may reserve the word belief for true beliefs.

After all, the word delusion is in the title, so that may be their word for a false belief.

 

[Tercon]

Those of your beliefs that are true and justified, represent knowledge (subject to the exceptions detailed in your link.) However, not all of your beliefs are true or justified.
You may believe that they are, but this belief is false. We all of us carry a basket of beliefs, some of which are true and some of which are false. We carry them in the same basket because we personally cannot tell which are true and which are false. Other people, with access to different information, can tell us which are true and which are false. We can listen to them, learn, and shift false beliefs out of the belief basket. But there will always be some beliefs, for everyone of us, for which the information is not readily available and which we cannot truly know are true.
Most people are able to acknowledge this truth. They can see that some of the beliefs they hold have very little justification, and while they hold them to be true, they cannot in conscience condemn those who call them false beliefs. Belief itself brings no information or evidence. It doesn't confirm or refute anything. It is merely an indication of the state of mind of the believer. The only truth that a belief can show is that the believer believes it. Belief by itself is impotent. It doesn't affect the real world outside the mind of the believer at all. It is a consequence, not a cause. It brings an understanding of the real world to the mind of the believer, but that is all it does. And that understanding may be mistaken.

Strawman and projection.
I am not referring to or denoting all beliefs: But just my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

The contradiction is yours. You have a particular belief,a real belief that you consider to be true, that false beliefs are not real.

How about you, what do you have? let us take a look: You have a particular belief; a real belief that you consider to be true, that false beliefs are real. Congratulations; you have a real false belief.

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

This real belief of yours is false. It is objectively not true that false beliefs are real. False beliefs are all over the place. It is probable that every person on the planet holds false beliefs, believing them to be true.

Yes. And sane people know that all of those "false beliefs" are "false" and wrong.

Real does not mean the same thing as true.

The belief referred to in the first paragraph is false. It is itself an example of its own falsity. The walking contradiction is you. The contradiction has been pointed out to you over a period of years, in thousands of posts. That you still hold to it merely illustrates further the power, and the reality, of false beliefs.

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

 

[TeabagSalad]

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

Well done, you have demonstrated that you hold a belief that is false!

 

[Tercon]

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

A belief can be true or false - it doesn't matter which it is still a belief.

The OP may reserve the word belief for true beliefs.

After all, the word delusion is in the title, so that may be their word for a false belief.

Yes of course I am using the word 'belief' to refer to and denote ONLY "true beliefs" or AKA justified true beliefs, as I consider these beliefs to be 'real beliefs' that represent truth and denote reality.

And I consider "false beliefs" not to represent the truth nor denote reality. And "false beliefs" do represent and denote delusions.

When I am denoting "false beliefs", then I refer to those "false belief" as "false beliefs" and not beliefs.

And when I am denoting 'beliefs'. then I am referring to and denoting 'real belief' or justified true beliefs and NOT "false beliefs".

Is there something wrong with this reasoning?

Also, my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

 

[Tercon]

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

Well done, you have demonstrated that you hold a belief that is false!

You should start a thread devoted to how you showed me how I was wrong about "false beliefs". I will gladly participate. You can start it by copying the above two posts.

 

[mikeT]

Yes of course I am using the word 'belief' to refer to and denote ONLY "true beliefs"

And you are wrong to do so.

 

[Temujin]

Strawman and projection.
I am not referring to or denoting all beliefs: But just my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

It is this belief that is false.

How about you, what do you have? let us take a look: You have a particular belief; a real belief that you consider to be true, that false beliefs are real. Congratulations; you have a real false belief.

Nope, since false beliefs are real (oh look, there is one in bold at the top of your post), my belief that false beliefs are real is justified, and true.

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

No. It is incorrect. You have a false belief that it is correct.

But my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

No. False beliefs are real. What they refer to is not real, but the belief is real. Have you ever read a novel? The events in the novel are fictional. They are not real. The novel itself is real, however. You can hold it in your hand, it can be bought or sold, it earns money for the author and is their intellectual property. Novel is real, content is not real. False belief is real the believed content is not real. Your belief about only true beliefs being real is real. The content of your belief about only true beliefs being real, is false. I'm not sure how to make this any simpler for you.

 

[Temujin]

Yes of course I am using the word 'belief' to refer to and denote ONLY "true beliefs" or AKA justified true beliefs, as I consider these beliefs to be 'real beliefs' that represent truth and denote reality.

And I consider "false beliefs" not to represent the truth nor denote reality. And "false beliefs" do represent and denote delusions.

When I am denoting "false beliefs", then I refer to those "false belief" as "false beliefs" and not beliefs.

And when I am denoting 'beliefs'. then I am referring to and denoting 'real belief' or justified true beliefs and NOT "false beliefs".

Is there something wrong with this reasoning?

Yes.

Also, my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

No.

 

[mikeT]

You should start a thread devoted to how you showed me how I was wrong about "false beliefs". I will gladly participate.

This thread already does that.

I am using the word "falsehood" to refer to nearly everything you've ever posted here. Fair? Why or why not?

 

[Tercon]

This thread already does that.

I am using the word "falsehood" to refer to nearly everything you've ever posted here. Fair? Why or why not?

Strawman and project.

I am using the word "falsehood" to refer to and denote atheism, because atheism is just a unbelief which refers to and denotes nothing that can be known to occur or exist in reality.

 

[mikeT]

Strawman and project.

Chronic ignorance

I am using the word "falsehood" to refer to and denote atheism

We are using the word "falsehood" to refer to nearly everything you've ever posted here. There's more of us than you, so our definition wins.

atheism is just a unbelief which refers to and denotes nothing that can be known to occur or exist in reality.

As does your false belief that false beliefs do not exist in reality.

You lose again

 

[Tercon]

Chronic ignorance

Chronic unbelief.

We are using the word "falsehood" to refer to nearly everything you've ever posted here. There's more of us than you, so our definition wins.

"Falsehoods" refer to and denote "false beliefs" and not justified true beliefs.

God always gets what He wants and the rest get the abyss and exactly what they want. It is a win win for everyone.

As does your false belief that false beliefs do not exist in reality.

You lose again

Believers always win, because the truth and reality is ours for the believing.

But for you; your "false belief that false beliefs" exist in reality just gets you a "false belief" and ignorance of the truth and reality.

 

[Electric Skeptic]

Yes of course I am using the word 'belief' to refer to and denote ONLY "true beliefs" or AKA justified true beliefs, as I consider these beliefs to be 'real beliefs' that represent truth and denote reality.

Then you are using the word 'belief' wrongly. It does not mean 'true beliefs'. It means all beliefs, including false ones.

And I consider "false beliefs" not to represent the truth nor denote reality. And "false beliefs" do represent and denote delusions.

Which is irrelevant to the fact that they are beliefs.

When I am denoting "false beliefs", then I refer to those "false belief" as "false beliefs" and not beliefs.

False beliefs are beliefs.

And when I am denoting 'beliefs'. then I am referring to and denoting 'real belief' or justified true beliefs and NOT "false beliefs".

Sorry, you don't get to redefine words. The word 'beliefs' includes all kinds of beliefs, including false ones. What you are doing is like saying "When I am denoting "cars", then I am referring to and denoting 'Fords' and NOT Datsuns, Toyotas, etc." It doesn't work; 'cars' doesn't mean 'Fords'. It means all cars. 'Belief' doesn't mean 'true belief'; it means all belief.

Is there something wrong with this reasoning?

It's not the reasoning that's the problem, it's your continued misuse of English language words.

Also, my belief that it is only justified true beliefs that are real beliefs in reality is a justified true belief correct?

No, it's a false belief. False beliefs are just as real as true beliefs.

 

[mikeT]

Chronic unbelief.

Yours.

Your unbelieving mind lacks belief in belief's ability to lead you in the direction opposite of truth and knowledge.

Believers always win

Then you with your unbelieving mind have lost.

 

[Temujin]

"Falsehoods" refer to and denote "false beliefs" and not justified true beliefs.

Exactly. This is why we refer to your beliefs as falsehoods. Because they are false beliefs.

God always gets what He wants and the rest get the abyss and exactly what they want. It is a win win for everyone.

You believe this. Other beliefs are available, that are just as valid and authentic as yours.

Believers always win, because the truth and reality is ours for the believing.

Except when their belief is false and consequently they don't win.

But for you; your "false belief that false beliefs" exist in reality just gets you a "false belief" and ignorance of the truth and reality.

Your belief that this clumsy word salad is true, is a false belief.