This 1 parable refutes all 5 points of calvinism- tulip

[Simpletruther]

another man made doctrine- yes

if not God is lying to everyone with all the warning passages about remaining in Him,continuing to be faithful, abiding, obeying etc.....

So you have to obey his law to remain saved?

 

[Slyzr]

So you have to obey his law to remain saved?

Not necessarily ...

"Your word is a light unto my feet".

 

[guest1]

So you have to obey his law to remain saved?

did I say that ? I said remain faithful

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Yes I have addressed it but you are not listening.

Your problem is that you think that there was only one promise concerning the Spirit and that is false, for Jesus in John 14-16 and especially chapter 16 promised the indwelling of the Spirit and that began to be fulfilled when he breathed on the disciples but right before left to sit at God's right hand, he promised the Baptism of fire and the Spirit and this is not the same promise.

By the way, Jesus didn't mention a Baptism of the Holy Spirit in John 14-16 but only that the Holy Spirit would be with them and dwelling within them and the same goes for Acts 1:4-8, for here Jesus didn't mention the indwelling of the Spirit at all but only the Baptism of the Spirit instead.

Therefore can you respond to the difference between the indwelling of the Spirit and the Baptism of the Spirit?

The word Baptism doesn't mean an indwelling of the Spirit but rather being totally immersed in the Spirit, so how do you respond to that?

As far as him having to go away first, that applies to both promises and so that doesn't help your argument on this at all.


Tell me, are you a United Pentecostal believer?

For that would explain why you are having problems with this.

I think this will be my third time asking you to comment on what Jesus meant by the Promise of the Father. What it was,when it was.
Now this last post seems to contradict what you have said previously, that you recognize He had to go away for the Spirit to come, or as you said "both promises" of what the Spirit could and would do.

A good point to remember is that you state here that I think there is only one promise concerning the Spirit. What you may not realize is that you came up with that incorrectly. I never said that and don't believe it. Maybe you were trying to categorize me into a particular doctrinal stream? But that shows that assuming what people believe can lead you into making false statements.

 

[guest1]

I think this will be my third time asking you to comment on what Jesus meant by the Promise of the Father. What it was,when it was.
Now this last post seems to contradict what you have said previously, that you recognize He had to go away for the Spirit to come, or as you said "both promises" of what the Spirit could and would do.

A good point to remember is that you state here that I think there is only one promise concerning the Spirit. What you may not realize is that you came up with that incorrectly. I never said that and don't believe it. Maybe you were trying to categorize me into a particular doctrinal stream? But that shows that assuming what people believe can lead you into making false statements.

I'm not getting a direct answer from him either just the run around and he is asking me the same question I asked him lol.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

I'm not getting a direct answer from him either just the run around and he is asking me the same question I asked him lol.

I would think that a Christian who believes they understand the Bible better than other people, would want to communicate clearly and helpfully

 

[Bocco]

You showed some logic in how you determine someone is a man, but then you switch your approach and there is no logic in your post that I can see specifically concerning how you know a specific person has been born again,

I don't think I ever said I knew or could know if a particular person was born again. Just that a person had to be born again to see the Kingdom of God.

 

[guest1]

I would think that a Christian who believes they understand the Bible better than other people, would want to communicate clearly and helpfully

Yes you would think in a cordial and respectful manner without ad hominems. Its rare.

 

[Simpletruther]

did I say that ? I said remain faithful

you listed obey in God's warnings.

Is he lying then, as your words implied, since we don't have to obey to stay saved?

He commands faith, therfore believing is obeying his command/law.

 

[guest1]

you listed obey in God's warnings.

Is he lying then, as your words implied, since we don't have to obey to stay saved?

faith without works is dead period. no obedience, no faith, no salvation.

do you actually think you are clever enough to trap me lol

newsflash- it will never happen as I know both sides very well. but hey if you think you can have at it brother, knock yourself out trying. its like a unitarian trying to trap me on the Trinity or Deity of Christ, a losing battle lol. I know all the objections- nothing new under the sun.

 

[Bocco]

You showed some logic in how you determine someone is a man, but then you switch your approach and there is no logic in your post that I can see specifically concerning how you know a specific person has been born again,

I don't think I ever said I knew or could know if a particular person was born again. Just that a person had to be born again to see the Kingdom of God.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I asked you the question first so after you give me an answer I will return the favor.

1 Peter 3:15- I'm sure you have that one memorized right.

Yes I have had all of those experiences but believe totally different about speaking in tongue than what I did at that time.


By the way, in your verse above the word should be "sanctify" and not "worship", although I also worship Jesus but not as God.

 

[guest1]

Yes I have had all of those experiences but believe totally different about speaking in tongue than what I did at that time.


By the way, in your verse about the word should be "sanctify" and not "worship".

where did I say worship lol

 

[Theo1689]

Yes you would think in a cordial and respectful manner without ad hominems. Its rare.

So lacking in self-awareness...

 

[Yahweh will increase]

where did I say worship lol

I didn't say you did, but I read one translation that used the word worship and that is why I said it.

Now how about you answering me what I asked of you?

 

[guest1]

I didn't say you did, but I read one translation that used the word worship and that is why I said it.

Now how about you answering me what I asked of you?

no tongues ever in my life even though as a young believer I sought out the " gift " .

I was at a Jimmy Swaggart crusade at oakland colosseum in the 80's right at the front when Swaggart Jr tried talking me into babbling baby talk, gibberish. What charismatic chaos down there at the podium it was nuts and so was he. I got the heck out of there and never sought the "gift " again.

 

[Rockson]

I grew up in the Church
i went through 15 plus years in Church leadership (teaching and being a lay -preacher)
I knew the "right " answers to many topics.
I was not in Christ until my late 40s

But the word of God was not alive and growing in your heart. You've admitted that. It wasn't a living thing to you. For the seed in the sower parable to be growing in the ground IT WAS ALIVE.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I think this will be my third time asking you to comment on what Jesus meant by the Promise of the Father. What it was,when it was.
Now this last post seems to contradict what you have said previously, that you recognize He had to go away for the Spirit to come, or as you said "both promises" of what the Spirit could and would do.

A good point to remember is that you state here that I think there is only one promise concerning the Spirit. What you may not realize is that you came up with that incorrectly. I never said that and don't believe it. Maybe you were trying to categorize me into a particular doctrinal stream? But that shows that assuming what people believe can lead you into making false statements.

Let's start then with all of the verses you are speaking of where Jesus speaks of "the Promise of the Father" and the context surrounding them?

Now concerning your second or last paragraph above, I am getting this because of your own argument here, for you said that when Jesus breathed on them and said "receive the Spirit" and which happened well before the Day of Pentecost, that they didn't actually receive the Spirit at that time, isn't that what you said?

Therefore I take it that you are pushing the idea that only on the day of Pentecost was any promise of the Spirit being given, actually given.

 

[Simpletruther]

faith without works is dead period. no obedience, no faith, no salvation.

do you actually think you are clever enough to trap me lol

newsflash- it will never happen as I know both sides very well. but hey if you think you can have at it brother, knock yourself out trying. its like a unitarian trying to trap me on the Trinity or Deity of Christ, a losing battle lol. I know all the objections- nothing new under the sun.

Trusting is obedience.

So yea, not obeying his commands and you loose salvation according to you.

You might be clever, but wow if you were half as clever as you think you are we could have everything solved.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

no tongues ever in my life even though as a young believer I sought out the " gift " .

I was at a Jimmy Swaggart crusade at oakland colosseum in the 80's right at the front when Swaggart Jr tried talking me into babbling baby talk, gibberish. What charismatic chaos down there at the podium it was nuts and so was he. I got the heck out of there and never sought the "gift " again.

Yep and whether you like it or not, all of that nonsense and false doctrine, comes out of the doctrine of the trinity and Jesus being God, all of it.