Is it only justified true beliefs that refer to the truth and denote reality?

Caroljeen said:
1. The bolded part is where, I think, you go off the rails. There are many beliefs and knowledge of the natural world that those who don't believe in God can actually know and are true. Many of them are true beliefs regarding nature, mathematics, history, and the sciences. People don't have to believe in God to believe the true and reality found in these and other fields.
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Atheists have unbelieving minds, that's why they believe "false beliefs" and unbelief exists in reality and at the same time disbelieve that belief is capable of making the truth and reality known. When neither "false beliefs" and unbelief possesses a object of belief that could make them known in reality.
And if God is the Originator of the truth and reality, then yes; everyone including atheists has to believe in the reality of God in order to have a working knowledge of the truth and reality.

Caroljeen said:
2. There are atheists in these forums who have better functioning reason and logic than most Christians who have believing minds. If Christians have truth and reality because they have believing minds then where is their reason and logic?
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I have not seen any atheists' that have "better functioning reason and logic than most Christians". And being an atheist makes makes them an unbeliever and inherently a unbelieving mind. And logic is an attribute of the truth and reality; which unbelievers inherently lack.

Caroljeen said:
An unbeliever's wisdom and knowledge pertains to the natural world and that is what they know. A Christian's wisdom and knowledge (can be natural as well) is based on a spiritual knowledge which unbelievers cannot understand.
So, you can't say that unbelievers cannot know things that are true unless you are speaking of spiritual things.
1 Cor 1: 12-16
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Sorry but wisdom and any knowledge of the truth and reality are spiritual matters, because they are only obtainable through belief and a believing mind, which is also spiritual in nature. The Holy Spirit influences a believer's beliefs, making the "Spirit of truth's" means of communication with believers belief as well.

Caroljeen said:
False beliefs are real beliefs. They just aren't true beliefs, and they don't necessarily have to be delusional.
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If "false beliefs" have no connection with the truth or reality, then how can they be "real beliefs" in reality?

And yes, if "false beliefs" have no connection with the truth or reality, then believing they do is a "false belief" in and of itself and inherently delusional.
 
TeabagSalad said:
Which again shows us that you have no idea what belief actually is.

Why is it so hard for you to learn something so simple?
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I know that if "false beliefs" have no connection with the truth or reality, then they can't be "real beliefs" in reality, because what makes something true and a part of reality is when it has a connection in and with reality. And "false beliefs" do not have that connection.

And believing that "false beliefs" are "real beliefs" in reality is a "false belief" in and of itself and inherently delusional.
 
Temujin said:
They, and I would say that it is delusion to think that false beliefs are not real.
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I see no reason to believe that "false beliefs are real beliefs" in reality. Now, I believe that justified true beliefs are real beliefs in reality and I think we can agree on that.

Temujin said:
Every news reel abounds with real false beliefs, as does this web site. You will have to come up with something more convincing than your personal opinions.
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Yes, lots of "Fake News" abound nowadays.

But I don't think it is irrational to believe because the truth, reality, logic, morality, consciousness, existence and belief itself exist, and are only knowable in and with a believing mind, that these things must have originated in and with a Believing Mind.
 
Tercon said:
I know that if "false beliefs" have no connection with the truth or reality, then they can't be "real beliefs" in reality, because what makes something true and a part of reality is when it has a connection in and with reality. And "false beliefs" do not have that connection.
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This is a false belief.

And believing that "false beliefs" are "real beliefs" in reality is a "false belief" in and of itself and inherently delusional.
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Nope, you are under some strange delusion where you don't know what belief actually is.
 
Tercon said:
Here another one; Trump was president in 2019.
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Where is in this case the truth (justified belief) denoted in reality ?

You continue to fail to deliver.

Repeat: Give an example where there is truth (justified true belief), but the reality is denoted.
 
FCP said:
Where is in this case the truth (justified belief) denoted in reality ?

You continue to fail to deliver.

Repeat: Give an example where there is truth (justified true belief), but the reality is denoted.
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The belief that Trump was president in 2019 refers to and denotes reality.

And your capacity to ignore the truth isn't a super-power, rather it is the equivalent of covering your eyes and pretending no-one can see you.
 
Tercon said:
The belief that Trump was president in 2019 refers to and denotes reality.

And your capacity to ignore the truth isn't a super-power, rather it is the equivalent of covering your eyes and pretending no-one can see you.
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There are a great many people, some on this site, who believe that Trump was also president in 2020 and indeed still is. Is this reality? Does their belief make it so? Or are they mistaken and harbouring a false belief?
 
Temujin said:
There are a great many people, some on this site, who believe that Trump was also president in 2020 and indeed still is. Is this reality? Does their belief make it so? Or are they mistaken and harbouring a false belief?
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The day that Trump left the white house and relinquished his control over the government and military he stopped being president.

However, there are people including Trump that believe that democrats cheated in the 2020 election.
 
Tercon said:
The day that Trump left the white house and relinquished his control over the government and military he stopped being president.

However, there are people including Trump that believe that democrats cheated in the 2020 election.
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And there are people who believe the opposite, that he has tried to cheat his way back into the White House. Which set of beliefs is true, and which is false? How do we know?

You claim that belief is sufficient to make something true. Which set of beliefs will make the truth in this instance?
 
Temujin said:
And there are people who believe the opposite, that he has tried to cheat his way back into the White House.
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Yeah and those people will probably cause civil unrest by making up stuff like "Russiagate" to keep him from running again as well.

Temujin said:
Which set of beliefs is true, and which is false? How do we know?
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Well nothing else was true that they tried to pin on him, so why should we believe this coming from the same Trump deranged syndrome loons.

Temujin said:
You claim that belief is sufficient to make something true. Which set of beliefs will make the truth in this instance?
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Our belief is sufficient to make us know that Trump was president in 2019 right?
 
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