Hedgeship of Adam ....

Slyzr

Well-known member
Do Jewish people believe in it?

I understand it is kind of a wierd question, as the Jew;s were able to track their genealogy back to Adam.

Not an expert on the matter ...... but the way I read it is the Jewish nation was so post to be an improvement.

Not being stuck in Adam..

Thoughts?
 
Do Jewish people believe in it?

I understand it is kind of a wierd question, as the Jew;s were able to track their genealogy back to Adam.

Not an expert on the matter ...... but the way I read it is the Jewish nation was so post to be an improvement.

Not being stuck in Adam..

Thoughts?
Did you mean headship? I googled hedgeship and no such word exists. I think you also meant supposed, not so post.

Some Jews believe in a literal historical Adam who is father of the whole human race. Other Jews such as myself know that Adam is not historical, but is a character in a creative teaching story.
 
No Jew as successfully traced their genealogy to the biblical patriarchs. The modern term Jew means "of the religion of Judaism", unlike the Biblical definition "of Judea" (the place), which no longer exists. Anybody today can convert to Judaism and be titled "Jew" and claim Palestine as their native land.

In Genesis 49:13 Abraham was buried, but unfortunately nobody knows the whereabouts of the grave, so one can't dig it up and do DNA tests. All the patriarch tombs in Israel today are tourist attractions, not the real thing.
 
The modern term Jew means "of the religion of Judaism",
No, you can believe the religion of Judaism and not be a Jew. A Jew is someone who is either born of a Jewish mom, or who has undergone a lawful conversion and is thus adopted into the People of Israel.
 
No, you can believe the religion of Judaism and not be a Jew. A Jew is someone who is either born of a Jewish mom, or who has undergone a lawful conversion and is thus adopted into the People of Israel.

Boaz's wife was Ruth, a Moabitess (Ruth 4:13), so according to modern Jewish standards, the child of that relationship is not Jewish and neither
is King Solomon, because his mother was a Hittite (2 Samuel 11:3).

Double standards?
 
Boaz's wife was Ruth, a Moabitess (Ruth 4:13), so according to modern Jewish standards, the child of that relationship is not Jewish and neither
is King Solomon, because his mother was a Hittite (2 Samuel 11:3).

Double standards?
Ruth's story is the classic story of CONVERSION. She was born a moabite and died a Jew. "Your people shall be my people and your God shall be my God." Thus, all her children and grandchildren were Jews.
 
Ruth's story is the classic story of CONVERSION. She was born a moabite and died a Jew. "Your people shall be my people and your God shall be my God." Thus, all her children and grandchildren were Jews.

Moab and Judea are locations, not religions, so she was born in Moab and died in Judea, these locations no longer exist.

Ruth 4:10 - I purchased to be my wife
Ezra 10:2 - We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land
 
Moab and Judea are locations, not religions, so she was born in Moab and died in Judea, these locations no longer exist.

Ruth 4:10 - I purchased to be my wife
Ezra 10:2 - We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land
the moabites were a tribal people. Jews are also a tribal people. The easiest way to be a member of a tribe is to be born into it (in the case of teh People of Israel, this means having a Jewish mom). But on rare occasions, outsiders can also be adopted into tribes. In modern terms we speak of "conversion to Judaism," but a ger is more than a convert. They are being adopted into the People of Israel. Ruth is one such example--born Moabite, died a Jew.
 
Today's religion of Judaism did not exist in those times, it didn't exist even in the 1st century, so your modern terms are irrelevant. It is incorrect to use the term "Jew" in the Old Testament, the correct word is Judean (יהודי).
 
Ruth's story is the classic story of CONVERSION. She was born a moabite and died a Jew. "Your people shall be my people and your God shall be my God." Thus, all her children and grandchildren were Jews.
OH, this has been discussed here many times.
There was no such thing "conversion" in Ruth’s day. Ruth was a Jew born in Moab, or Boaz could never have married her.
According to God's own words, no Moabite may enter the assembly. Ever. Period. Deuteronomy 23:3
When the Jews returned to Jerusalem from Babylon, they had to "put away" their foreign wives before they were allowed to reenter.
Ezra 9:
“The people of Israel, including the priests and Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the surrounding peoples whose abominations are like those of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and Amorites. 2Indeed, the Israelites have taken some of their daughters as wives for themselves and their sons, so that the holy seed has been mixed with the people of the land. And the leaders and officials have taken the lead in this unfaithfulness!”
 
Moab and Judea are locations, not religions, so she was born in Moab and died in Judea, these locations no longer exist.
I have a question, "was Ruth born in the Land of Moab or the country of Moab?". because the country of Moab is not the same location as the Land of Moab. please check your maps.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
OH, this has been discussed here many times.
There was no such thing "conversion" in Ruth’s day.

The mechanics of conversion evolved over time, but the concept of gerim, or converts, existed even back then. Remember that the mixed multitude in the desert were all converts.

No, it specifically says that she was a moabite when her first husband married her, which was not in accordance to law. Her marriage to Boaz was lawful, since she had been adopted into the People of Israel.

Yes, there is a problem with a contradiction in the Bible about Moabites. Deut 23:3 says they may not convert. Yet Ruth was a Moabite that converted. The traditional explanation is that the prohibition extended only to men. I on the other hand have no problems admitting that the various authors of the Tanakh held contrary opinions. I don't subscribe to the evangelical claim that the authors took dictation from God.
 
The mechanics of conversion evolved over time, but the concept of gerim, or converts, existed even back then. Remember that the mixed multitude in the desert were all converts.

No, it specifically says that she was a moabite when her first husband married her, which was not in accordance to law. Her marriage to Boaz was lawful, since she had been adopted into the People of Israel.

Yes, there is a problem with a contradiction in the Bible about Moabites. Deut 23:3 says they may not convert. Yet Ruth was a Moabite that converted. The traditional explanation is that the prohibition extended only to men. I on the other hand have no problems admitting that the various authors of the Tanakh held contrary opinions. I don't subscribe to the evangelical claim that the authors took dictation from God.

I've heard the argument from Jewish posters that she was already a Jew; but did not realize it.

Thus the kinsman redeemer?

Not an expert by any stretch.
 
I've heard the argument from Jewish posters that she was already a Jew; but did not realize it.

Thus the kinsman redeemer?

Not an expert by any stretch.
Well, the tradition is that there are people with Jewish souls who are born as Gentiles. But that doesn't mean they aren't gentiles who must convert to be a Jew. So you can say that Ruth had a Jewish soul, but she still wasn't a Jew until her conversion.

In order to qualify for a levirate marraige (kinsman redeemer) she would have had to be a Jew, meaning she underwent conversion.
 
Well, the tradition is that there are people with Jewish souls who are born as Gentiles. But that doesn't mean they aren't gentiles who must convert to be a Jew. So you can say that Ruth had a Jewish soul, but she still wasn't a Jew until her conversion.

In order to qualify for a levirate marraige (kinsman redeemer) she would have had to be a Jew, meaning she underwent conversion.

How can she get the kinsman redeemer with out being from them?

Not sure what you are saying here.

Soul conversion?

How does that work out?

Was she was not of them, but then but had there Soul?

???????

Curious.

or are you saying she got anothers soul and went back.

Either way .... highly curious.

Or put another way if she is not a Jewish soul how could she do that extrapulation?

She must have something Jeswish.

Which is why people argue about her being Jewish all along.
 
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How can she get the kinsman redeemer with out being from them?

Not sure what you are saying here.

Soul conversion?

How does that work out?

Was she was not of them, but then but had there Soul?

???????

Curious.
A levirate marriage (kinsman redeemer) is basically when a woman's husband dies without their having had any children. She marries his brother or other close relative, and whatever children she bears for the second husband are heirs of the first husband. You can only do a levirate marriage if both are Jewish.

Jewish identity is not a spiritual thing. It is decided by halakha (Jewish law). But there is a lovely tradition that those who convert do so because they have a Jewish soul that drives them to convert. This is based on the idea that the soul of the Jew is significantly different from the soul of other peoples (which I don't think I personally believe).

Let's apply this tradition to Ruth. We would assume Ruth had this Jewish soul, but she was born into the Moabites and so her identity originally was Moabite and not Jewish. Her Jewish soul would give her a predisposition to becoming a Jew. By saying "Let your people be my people and your God be my God," she essentially converted, meaning she was adopted into the People of Israel aka became a Jew. This would qualify her for a levirate marriage.
 
A levirate marriage (kinsman redeemer) is basically when a woman's husband dies without their having had any children. She marries his brother or other close relative, and whatever children she bears for the second husband are heirs of the first husband. You can only do a levirate marriage if both are Jewish.

Jewish identity is not a spiritual thing. It is decided by halakha (Jewish law). But there is a lovely tradition that those who convert do so because they have a Jewish soul that drives them to convert. This is based on the idea that the soul of the Jew is significantly different from the soul of other peoples (which I don't think I personally believe).

Let's apply this tradition to Ruth. We would assume Ruth had this Jewish soul, but she was born into the Moabites and so her identity originally was Moabite and not Jewish. Her Jewish soul would give her a predisposition to becoming a Jew. By saying "Let your people be my people and your God be my God," she essentially converted, meaning she was adopted into the People of Israel aka became a Jew. This would qualify her for a levirate marriage.

Then kinsman reddemer is not.
 
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