What believers in God refers to and denotes.

[Tercon]

Actually that's just your opinion

... and no one else's. Not even Christians agree with this nonsense.

Strawman. No, that's my belief and belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to everyone including you.

If someone disbelieves that the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself originated somewhere else other than in God's Mind, then they are not believers; but unbelievers.

 

[Tercon]

You could save yourself a lot of bother if you learned what belief actually is.

I know what real belief in reality is; it is justified true belief.

 

[mikeT]

If someone disbelieves that the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself originated somewhere else other than in God's Mind, then they are not believers; but unbelievers.

Then the world is filled with Christian unbelievers.

Maybe this is why no Christian here has ever agreed with you...

 

[TeabagSalad]

I know what real belief in reality is; it is justified true belief.

You really are having a lot of difficulty understanding what belief is.

A belief can be unjustified and it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.
A belief can be false and it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.
A belief can be both false and unjustified, it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.

You are completely clueless and making yourself look like a proper idiot because you refuse to look up and understand what the word belief actually means.

Are you able to look up the word belief in a dictionary? Or is that too hard for you to do?

 

[Tiburon]

Strawman. No, that's my belief and belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to everyone including you.

If someone disbelieves that the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself originated somewhere else other than in God's Mind, then they are not believers; but unbelievers.

That is your opinion.

 

[Tercon]

Then the world is filled with Christian unbelievers.

Maybe this is why no Christian here has ever agreed with you...

You're half right, there are plenty who call themselves believers; who are not in reality.

Every tree not yielding good fruit is cut down and is cast to fire: therefore from their fruits ye shall know them.
`Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things? and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness. Matthew 7:19-22

 

[Tercon]

You really are having a lot of difficulty understanding what belief is.

Not at all and projection, you're the one who believes "false beliefs are real beliefs" in reality.

A belief can be unjustified and it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.
A belief can be false and it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.
A belief can be both false and unjustified, it is still a belief. That is why we call it a belief.

But real beliefs that represent reality are justified true beliefs and not "false and unjustified" beliefs.

Our belief that Trump was president in 2019 is a real belief and not a "false and unjustified" belief.

 

[mikeT]

You're half right, there are plenty who call themselves believers; who are not in reality.

Given the reaction of nearly every Christian here who tries to engage you and correct your obvious linguistic/logical mistakes, you're one of the people you just described.

 

[Tercon]

Given the reaction of nearly every Christian here who tries to engage you and correct your obvious linguistic/logical mistakes, you're one of the people you just described.

Trying to hide behind claims of "linguistic/logical mistakes" without actually showing how and why what I have claimed is false and illogical is meaningless, you're going to have to do better than that.

And anyone who disbelieves that the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself originated somewhere else other than in God's Mind are not believers; but unbelievers. The logical truth is the result of God's Mind.

 

[mikeT]

Trying to hide behind claims of "linguistic/logical mistakes" without actually showing how and why what I have claimed is false and illogical is meaningless

Almost every single person in this thread (and your others) has explained to you why you're wrong. Your molestation of the English language is documented excellently, such as being unable to define the word "belief" in any meaningful way. You don't understand the difference between necessity and sufficiency. You don't realize that just because reality is known by brains, doesn't mean reality only exists in brains.

There have been literally thousands of posts over the last decade explaining and correcting your logical and linguistic errors. Your unwillingness to address any of them does not mean they don't exist.

The logical truth is the result of God's Mind.

Thanks for your unfounded opinions.

ps. 2+3=5 is not the result of any god's mind. You are (yet again) wrong.

 

[Caroljeen]

Not at all and projection, you're the one who believes "false beliefs are real beliefs" in reality.



But real beliefs that represent reality are justified true beliefs and not "false and unjustified" beliefs.

Our belief that Trump was president in 2019 is a real belief and not a "false and unjustified" belief.

Every knows that Trump was president. So then someone with an unbelieving mind can know a true, real belief.
Can someone with an unbelieving mind know that Santa Claus is a false, unjustified belief?

 

[Tercon]

Almost every single person in this thread (and your others) has explained to you why you're wrong. Your molestation of the English language is documented excellently, such as being unable to define the word "belief" in any meaningful way. You don't understand the difference between necessity and sufficiency.

Evasion.

You don't realize that just because reality is known by brains, doesn't mean reality only exists in brains.

Strawman. Actually just because reality is ONLY knowable in and by a believing mind, does in fact mean reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind.

There have been literally thousands of posts over the last decade explaining and correcting your logical and linguistic errors. Your unwillingness to address any of them does not mean they don't exist.

Projection

Thanks for your unfounded opinions.

ps. 2+3=5 is not the result of any god's mind. You are (yet again) wrong.

The fact that 2+3=5 is ONLY knowable in and by a believing mind; means that it MUST be the result of a believing mind.

 

[Tercon]

Every knows that Trump was president.

You mean that every(one) who knows Trump was president in 2019 "knows" because they believe it.

So then someone with an unbelieving mind can know a true, real belief.

No, they know it because they believe. So, how can "an unbelieving mind" know 'Trump was president in 2019' if they disbelieved it?

Can someone with an unbelieving mind know that Santa Claus is a false, unjustified belief?

Strawman and conflation of belief and unbelief. Is a false unjustified belief in Santa Claus the same as the belief that 'Trump was president in 2019'?

 

[mikeT]

Evasion.

Yes, yours. You routinely run away from evidence that your claims are illogical and incoherent.

Strawman.

Ignorance. Again: yours. You should really spend a minimum amount of time to understand the words you use.

Actually just because reality is ONLY knowable in and by a believing mind, does in fact mean reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind.

No, it doesn't.

Reality doesn't occur in a believing mind. Only the modeling of reality occurs there; reality itself exists independently of minds.

If reality exists in your god's mind, your god's mind doesn't exist in reality - and you thus worship a god of your own imagination.

 

[Caroljeen]

You mean that every(one) who knows Trump was president in 2019 "knows" because they believe it.

Despite many having unbelieving minds, they know that Trump was president. They have a real true belief and do not believe in God.

No, they know it because they believe. So, how can "an unbelieving mind" know 'Trump was president in 2019' if they disbelieved it?

see above

Is a false unjustified belief in Santa Claus the same as the belief that 'Trump was president in 2019'?

No, but you would say they are the same if a person does not have a believing mind, then they cannot not know reality.

 

[Tercon]

Despite many having unbelieving minds, they know that Trump was president.

"They" don't know it because "they" disbelieve it though, "they" can only know it because "they" believe it.

They have a real true belief and do not believe in God.

The problem with that is that the truth, reality, morality, logic, consciousness existence and belief itself originates and occurs in His Believing Mind, because they are only the result of a Believing Mind. If you disbelieve in the truth and reality of God, then you can't know how the truth and reality works.

see above

No, but you would say they are the same if a person does not have a believing mind, then they cannot not know reality.

Again, if a false unjustified belief in Santa Claus doesn't represent reality, then neither is it a real belief in reality. And you cannot know reality with false beliefs.

 

[Tercon]

Reality doesn't occur in a believing mind.

If reality isn't known to "occur in a believing mind", then in and with what is reality known to occur?

Only the modeling of reality occurs there; reality itself exists independently of minds.

Models of anything including reality isn't reality (the real thing), because reality only represents itself and is only knowable in and with a believing mind. For instances; a model airplane isn't a real airplane.

If reality exists in your god's mind, your god's mind doesn't exist in reality - and you thus worship a god of your own imagination.

Strawman. Actually if reality exists absolutely and can only be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, then reality must be the result of God's absolute believing mind.

 

[mikeT]

If reality isn't known to "occur in a believing mind", then in and with what is reality known to occur?

Reality occurs outside believing minds. If it were otherwise, believing minds wouldn't exist in reality.

Actually [.. drivel snipped ..]

Every time you begin a sentence with "Actually", you inerrantly ignore what you were responding to, in favor of repeating your mantras. Here's what I wrote which caused you to run away:

If reality exists in your god's mind, your god's mind doesn't exist in reality - and you thus worship a god of your own imagination​

.

Prove me wrong.

 

[FCP]

Actually in reality justified true belief are still beliefs and they also define knowledge, because belief is what makes the truth and reality known to the one believing it. Are you pretending that justified true beliefs aren't real beliefs and that "false beliefs are real beliefs"?

Strawman, nobody ever said the true beliefs aren't real, you make up stuff. Or maybe you abilities to read correctly are distorted.

Yet, there are many beliefs that people believe being reality, yet at a later stage in life do find out it is not reality. As a child I believed in Santa Clausa, in fact I have seen him !

Strawman. No, actually it is because the logical truth, consciousness, existence, morality, reality and belief itself exist and is the result of a Believing Mind, because in no other way or place can these things be known to occur and exist but a believing mind.

So you are trying to argue that a "believing mind" is sufficient for truth ? That is "Terconian philosophy", but not the defintion of truth for scholars.

Remember, belief is not SUFFICIENT to be truth alone by itsself. Yes, it needed but not SUFFICIENT. Get the message now ?

 

[Tercon]

Reality occurs outside believing minds. If it were otherwise, believing minds wouldn't exist in reality.

Illogical nonsense. In reality only the truth matters. If the only way and place that reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then how is it possible to know that "reality occurs outside believing minds"?

Every time you begin a sentence with "Actually", you inerrantly ignore what you were responding to, in favor of repeating your mantras. Here's what I wrote which caused you to run away:

If reality exists in your god's mind, your god's mind doesn't exist in reality - and you thus worship a god of your own imagination​

.

Prove me wrong.

Strawman and projection. Your conjuring is illogical nonsense and refuted by the mere truthfulness and reality represented in my responses to your conjuring's.

If it is true that the only way and place that reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the result of and originated in and with Someone's Believing Mind. That Originating Believing Mind is God's.