Shulammite
Member
Difference is tho, Christ is God and that is so according to the scriptures alone. And every actual Hebrew knows the Messiah must be God based on the language of OT prophesy. There is no point overlooked concerning your agenda.
If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?
- Thread starter sk0rpi0n
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Shulammite
Member
Clearly, reading comprehension eludes you. That is not a logical assessment.
Shulammite
Member
You must have overlooked that Holy Spirit conception. Ya know, that Virgin who conceived, that sign given to the House of David? No mere man is conceived by the Holy Spirit. If you are going to deny the scriptures in hopes of dissuading people from the the truth, you fool yourself. You draw conclusions to serve your rejection of Christ. Scripture is clear not sure what you've been reading.
Except that there are no observant Hebrews or Jews who would ever claim that the messiah must be God. There are no scriptures that claim Jesus was God. Paul, openly distinguishes God from Christ in 1 Corinthians 8:6
Shulammite
Member
Lol! No Paul doesn't. You do but Paul, no way. Keep pretexting. Those claiming to be sheep sure do have some sharp teeth, shnarkle even.
Shulammite
Member
No observant Hebrew or Jew would claim the messiah must be God? Lol! Of course they would because the prophets reveal He is. "Observant" this or that is not relative. Clearly, you don't fall under either heading - Hebrew or Jew based on your answer, let alone observant.
Evidently, there are those who haven't read Paul's letter to the Corinthians yet. Note that he distinguishes God from Christ, the Father from the Son, and the Origin (e.g. "of") from the Means (e.g. "by"). By your logic, the origin is the means and the father is the son. smh.
"But to us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST, by whom are all things, and we by him." 1 Corinthians 8:6
Correct.
Uh, no, they don't.
Obviously, not to you, but then given your proclivity for spreading baseless nonsense as well as pointless Ad Hominem, it's not surprising that you would miss the relevance of those who actually observe God's word.
Clearly, this topic isn't about me. Kindly review the OP to refresh your memory.
The default Ad Hominem attack. I always take personal attacks as a compliment because it spotlights an inability to refute what I've posted. I find it particularly intriguing to be mocked by one who claims only those who "claim" to be Christians. e.g.
"Ever experience those ones? They profess to be followers and as soon as you show them with scripture something isn't right with their doctrinal belief, they deny the obvious truth and then try to put scripture against scripture as if God is a house divided. Then mock and run around in circles continuously mocking the very word of truth! It never occurs to them, that to rightly divide the word does not mean against itself. God is not the author of confusion but of peace. Rightly dividing the word means knowing what the verses actually mean and applying them appropriately. They are not Christian.
They are, however, wolves in sheep's clothing-(using the title of Christian)."
(smile), are U 2 sure of yourselves? now a question first. is this "GREATER THAN" in Quality, or Quantity. please both answer. then we can move on to the explanation of this truth.
LOL, Oh these geniuses, I just love em.......
lol, none, lol. and 2 a prophet doesn't always prophesy future events either. (smile). they can make false statements also.....
this is just what Im speaking of. Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
so, the Lord Jesus said, notice, and I quote, "
now, cjab, do you know what this means? the Lord God is the Lord Jesus, do you want to do the Math? (smile). Oh well we will do it for U. it was the Lord Jesus and his Spirit that sent someone. read Isaiah 48:16, again, and then read Revelation 22:6, and revelation 22:16 again, and see if it lines up with your statement that you made. "I read that it was Jesus who said he had been sent." now, I'll be kind and ask, if U want to rephrase, or revise your statement.
well just answer the question above.....
Function.
Shulammite
Member
You speak nonsense because you know not the meaning of Christ's titles. You don't know what Son of Man is, Son of David, Son of God or God the Son. Whichever title Paul implements does not negate other titles nor Christ's position as equal to God . You cant grasp that. He is called holy father, mighty God, prince of peace in Isaiah. Christ is clearly God throughout Paul's writings. It's as Peter said; " Paul's writings are difficult to understand especially for the unstable to their own destruction" . You should hang it up! Don't try to interpret what you are incapable of understanding. Paul does not contradict himself you simply are ever hearing but not perceiving. You think scripture is a house divided. That in and if itself shows you do not believe in God who is the author of scripture. You read -God is not the author of confusion yet you actually believe His written word is a house divided??? Like what? Go figure! It is clear, the only division is in your mind. It is not sound and you self interpret what is divinely inspired, to your own destruction. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.
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The same "Lord" in reference to Jesus in 1 Corinthians 8:6 refers to Him in 1 Corinthians 10:22 and 1 Corinthians 10:26 proving He is YHWH.
- The "one Lord" in reference to Jesus being YHWH (1 Corinthians 8:6)
1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him (NASB) Although sometimes referred to in order to demonstrate the Lord Jesus is not God, 1 Corinthians 8:6...
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Shulammite
Member
In a war ( of words in this case) attack and defense is the nature of combat. You are your works so yes it is personal, that is common sense. You mock truth, Christ mocks you and holds you in derision. There is mocking from both sides. Scipture is clear about that. You can ask yourself which will prevail. God never loses a battle you will lose your soul ,in case you didn't know. So, your little attempt at reverse psychology is just your own head being played. You act as if children of the Most High are not suppose to take your sort to task. You forget, Christ is mocking the scoffer and the scoffer is mocking Christ. He( Christ) who laughs last, laughs best. And still, only a hater would actually think the scriptures contradict themselves as if they will implode. You will implode but His Word will always be. Bank!
Yahchristian
Well-known member
Just to clarify your Trinitarian view...
By “YHWH” above are you referring to...
A) The Divine BEING.
B) A Divine PERSON.
? - Question for Trins concerning Zechariah 12:10?
Zechariah 12:10 10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on ME, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for HIM as one grieves for a...
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Shulammite
Member
Father, Son , Holy Spirit -all Divine in being and the divine person of the One Triune God can only be what He is " I AM" is all divine.
Fred said,
Function.
well, let's see, take your time and read this, I have made it as short as I can get it
“The Father is Greater than I”
Study Scripture: John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I".
this verse has been taken out of context for way to long, and grossly misunderstood. as the word say, in all thy getting get understanding. the word, "GREATER", here in this verse is not the word GREAT, but "GREATER", it's an Adjective, as used here, and not an Adverb, this is very important. the word GREATER is the Greek word G3187 meizon (meid'-zone) adj.
1. larger (specially, in age)
{literally or figuratively}
[irregular comparative of G3173]
KJV: elder, greater(-est), more Root(s): G3173
Dictionary.com as an Adjective, (of a city) considered with the inclusion of the outer suburbs: Greater London. here, here the definitions are indicating quantity, (MORE), instead of quality, (SUPERIOR).
quantity: "an exact or specified amount or measure". look at these capitalize words above real good, and lets get an understanding.
What did Jesus mean, "The Father is Greater than I",
Greater: G3187 meizon (meid'-zone), indicate quality, or quantity. in the book of Romans 12:3 it states, "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith". this verse gives us the understanding of quantity, and quality. every man is the same, (quality), no man is superior to another, so there's no rank. also, as with MALES and FEMALES in the kingdom of GOD. the same Spirit is in every man/female. and every man/female is given the same amount or the same quantity of Faith. so likewise, as the same Spirit that manifest in that fleshly body, the nature of the Spirit did not change in quality, only the quantity is limited to that one body, other words his Omni attributes was limited. let’s look at this in John the 14th. chapter. here, the Lord Jesus is speaking of the work of salvation. as the Spirit was in Christ, (the flesh), the man, he was limited, by that fleshly body with BLOOD, because of his G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'). while in Flesh. understand, the Lord Jesus didn't go into all the world while he was here on earth in flesh and blood. he was limited in his work of salvation, because of that body he was in. but to see this clearly, watch the WORKS and how it is used. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". see that word "greater" here in verse 12. it is the same word, "greater", Jesus uses in verse 28. wait a minute, is Jesus saying that men who believe is GREATER than him in power, (quality), as we been led IGNORANTLY to assume as to what greater means? NO. so what is the Lord Jesus really saying, as I have said, GREATER, have several meaning, depending on how you used it in context, or out of context, as many have done. but let the bible explain itself and reveal the TRUTH.In context the meaning, greater as in quantity, and not in quality. greater used as an adjective, it means, "more" as in more believers to do the SAME quality of work, because it is the Lord who do the work. so now the work he is doing will be a greater number, as in them/us doing the same quality of work he was doing as an individual. more, or greater in quantity, not in quality, because he said, John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works, (there it is), than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". so we who believe will do the SAME works, but now we have millions of Jesus/Christians doing the same quality of works at the same time because he go to this “Spirit/Father. and in Spirit/the Holy Spirit he empowers all believers with “gifts”. so greater here means more. let’s look at the answer to this millions of Jesus at work, for we’re co-worker with him. listen, John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". see it, those who ask in his name, why because he a believer, and if you're a believer, then born again, and being born again, you have the Spirit, and the Spirit/JESUS dwells in you, (THIS IS WHY HE GOES TO THE FATHER). this work is only for born again believers. because the scripture states, "ask, and it shall be given unto you", but there is a way to ask, because Jesus said "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you". see anyone can ask, but if Jesus/the Spirit/God abide in you then ask, and it will be done, (and he's not talking about prayer either). that's why baptism is so important. because baptism, "KILLS", meaning stone DEAD, the sinful NATURE. hence one die to the sinful nature only ONCE, that means the Holy Spirit can come and live in us, and reside/abide in us forever. for you are born of God and his seed remain in you.
so we can clearly see it is the quantity, that is GREATER, not quality, for it is the same, the same, listen, the same Spirit who worketh. now the quality is supportive by definition. G243 allos, and G2087 hetero verify this. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort." as our Lord is in the SAME SORT, meaning class as God, SPIRIT, he is not “quality” different, only “quantity”, hence the “numerical difference” of G243 allos.
The conclusion on GREATER, it’s either “quality”, or “quantity”. the Scripture is true, John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". why GREATER? in quality, no servant is above his MASTER, listen, Matthew 10:24 "The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord”. that killed that SUPERIOR ERROR. he goes to the Father, or the heavens, he is glorified, (Spirit), listen. "Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, (in power, Spirit), and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear". what did Jesus say to his disciples on departure? Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth". he's no longer on EARTH, in a frail fleshly body, Father or Heavenly Father, means no limitation. now that glorified body is limitless. appearing and disappearing at will. walking thru walls with doors shut. scripture, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was". notice what Jesus said, "glorify
thou me with thine own self", and Jesus said don't use no one else, only (spirit). no longer will that flesh be, in corruption, nor in weakness. (see and read 1 Corinthian 15:35-50), but in POWER. "All Power". in heaven and EARTH. Amen. that GLORY, before the World was, all Spirit, then no body (flesh and bones), now Spirit with a body, (for a Spirit have not flesh and bones as I have), but without blood, The Holy Spirit, see Revelation 1:10-20, this is the one who died, the First, (GOD in Flesh), the beginning of the New Creation, (John 1:1). and the Last, (GOD in Glorified Flesh). praise God. the First New Man, and the last or end to the old man. so Greater here is in quantity. Amen.
Shulammite
Member
What is so obvious with anyone with a cognitive function in commonsense is- Let's say the Messiah hasn't come ( He has) but let's say He didn't, for the sake of argument. Let's say we simply only hold the OT or rather Tanakh. We are biblical scholars pouring over the scriptures ( you shnarkle, not so much) LOL!
Anyways, when we read the language of prophets such as Isaiah, it is clear, the Messiah is God. You cannot call Him something He is not.
Isaiah 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
The angry shnarkles of the world will then deny this plain simple text and put some spin factor on it as if they are doing the world a favor, when actually they do the Hebrew bible and people a major disservice. If you don't believe the bible, then just say that and stop telling Christians to not believe in the very book responsible for their faith and teachings. That's just stupidity.
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Shulammite
Member
That is right :
MY MOTTO
"Where there is KNOWLEDGE, Stay not Ignorant"
So, don't be ignorant of Christ's titles. As Son of Man which means in likeness of Man the Father is greater than the son of Man. He is representing us with that title. the Father is greater than us. Though some people like you put themselves as God with the slaughter of the written word that goes on.
Christ is not saying He and His Father are not One and He is not equal to God. It means, having come down from His throne and becoming a Son of Man, He did so to teach us how to please God as a man. Stop hurting yourself. The problem with you and the like is you self -interpret scripture.
Philippians 2:6-7
The Attitude of Christ
5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.…
Some bibles quote it this way and that:
Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. English Standard Version who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, Berean Study Bible Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, New American Standard Bible.
John 10:29-31
The Unbelief of the Jews
…29My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.” 31At this, the Jews again picked up stones to stone Him.…
You are no different than the unbelieving Jews.
This is not complicated for those who hear and love the truth. Put all the long post with BIG BOLDENED words all you want. The plain and simple text is clear. I am right you are wrong. In every battle someone must lose and someone must win. We can't both be right. But since I DIO NOT PUT SCRIPTURE AGAINST SCRIPTURE AS THOUGH THEY WILL IMPLODE, I MUST BE RIGHT IN MY UNDERSTANDING. I go forth in boldness! Lol!
Christ is =to God period! He just chose to speak like a humble servant, period!