Sin nature,

[stiggy wiggy]

You lend credence to obscure selectors who retroactively determine national champions - sometimes many decades after the fact

What a crock. I don't "lend credence" to anyone. I merely accept the opinions of the OVERWHELMING majority of people who recognize the truth about what team was the best those years. And interesting that you designate your own Tom Osborne as an "obscure selector." Man, you are so BUTT-HURT about a shellacking that occurred 32 years ago.

........... why wouldn't Princeton and Yale be considered the greatest programs of all time...........

It wouldn't bother me in the least if Princeton and Yale fans considered their programs the greatest of all time. Hell, it wouldn't bother me if SLIPPERY ROCK claimed 125 national titles. Why would it? What's that to me? Your getting all worked up over this MUST be due to a personal backlash over the absolute massacre your team received at the hands of my team 32 years ago. Sometimes the best antidote for an obsession is more of the same, you know, in order to flush things out. A sort of hair of the dog thing. So here:

 

[treeplanter]

I merely accept the opinions of the OVERWHELMING majority of people who recognize the truth about what team was the best those years.

Are you trolling
or
do you really not understand what I am trying to say?

Your self-admitted penchant for acting like a jerk makes it difficult to tell...

I'm not disputing that Georgia Tech was deserving of a national championship in 1917 and 1928
What I take issue with is that ANYONE has been retroactively crowned as national champions for years when no national championship existed

And interesting that you designate your own Tom Osborne as an "obscure selector."

The hell are you talking about???

Osborne voted in the UPI Poll

Haven't I been telling you all along that the UPI Poll - along with with AP, BCS, and CFP are the ONLY legitimate selectors???

Man, you are so BUTT-HURT about a shellacking that occurred 32 years ago.

WRONG!!!

If I'm "butt-hurt" about anything - it's that some of my fellow college football fans neither understand nor appreciate the rich history and tradition of the sport

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Are you trolling

Yep. I won the Trolling National Championship in 2011.

Your self-admitted penchant for acting like a jerk makes it difficult to tell...

AWWW, poor widdle cornhusker 32 year loser.

I'm not disputing that Georgia Tech was deserving of a national championship in 1917 and 1928

No one cares about what you are or are not disputing. Tech has won four titles and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Go bask in the glory of your big hoops wins over your big rival Creighton.

What I take issue with is that ANYONE has been retroactively crowned as national champions for years when no national championship existed

AWWW, poor thing. He "takes issue" with the banners that hang in a stadium more than a thousand miles away, one that he never has and never will visit. And WHY exactly am I or anyone for that matter supposed to care?

The hell are you talking about???

Osborne voted in the UPI Poll

EXACTLY. Was he an "obscure selector?" Stepped in it again, didn't you, little fella?

If I'm "butt-hurt" about anything - it's that some of my fellow college football fans neither understand nor appreciate the rich history and tradition of the sport

Understand and appreciate THIS:

 

[treeplanter]

Yep. I won the Trolling National Championship in 2011.



AWWW, poor widdle cornhusker 32 year loser.



No one cares about what you are or are not disputing. Tech has won four titles and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Go bask in the glory of your big hoops wins over your big rival Creighton.



AWWW, poor thing. He "takes issue" with the banners that hang in a stadium more than a thousand miles away, one that he never has and never will visit. And WHY exactly am I or anyone for that matter supposed to care?



EXACTLY. Was he an "obscure selector?" Stepped in it again, didn't you, little fella?



Understand and appreciate THIS:

You're not worth it, stigs

See ya around

 

[Tiburon]

Anything to justify your unbelief then....

No, I'm just going by what the Bible says. This point has no impact upon my belief.
Did Jesus know what was going to happen or not?
Could he have chosen otherwise?

 

[SteveB]

No, I'm just going by what the Bible says. This point has no impact upon my belief.
Did Jesus know what was going to happen or not?

I.e., you're not actually "going by what the bible says..."
Curious how that works when it suits your bias, while ignoring what the bible says when it doesn't agree with your beliefs and biases.

Yes. He did know what was going to happen.
He says several times beforehand that he would be betrayed, handed over to the leadership and then beaten and crucified, and then 3 days later, rise from the dead.

How many times did Jesus predict His death? | GotQuestions.org

How many times did Jesus predict His death? Why did the disciples repeatedly fail to understand that Jesus was going to die on the cross?

www.gotquestions.org

So, if you're going to continue to make statements about "just going on what the bible says", make sure you actually know what the bible says.

Could he have chosen otherwise?

Yep.
But the love of God is more important to him than doing it his own way.

Mat 26:42 WEB Again, a second time he went away and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cup can’t pass away from me unless I drink it, your desire be done.”

Mar 14:36 WEB He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Please remove this cup from me. However, not what I desire, but what you desire.”

Luk 22:41-45 WEB 41 He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and he knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him, strengthening him. 44 Being in agony, he prayed more earnestly. His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down on the ground. 45 When he rose up from his prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping because of grief,

Then in John 10, Jesus said that nobody takes his life from him. He gives it of his own accord.

Joh 10:14-18 WEB 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own; 15 even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 Therefore the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

 

[The Pixie]

Previously discussed is the sin nature of the human race, as a result of Adam's sin.
...

So God torture those who reject him for eternity to punishment for something Adam did?

 

[SteveB]

So God torture those who reject him for eternity to punishment for something Adam did?

Nope.
He actually gives you what you want, and then says bye bye.

You want nothing to do with him, so if you actually want to be left alone, why would you complain about the consequences of being left alone?

Remember, you're the one who is telling God you want nothing to do with him.

So, you're going to get exactly what you want, nothing from God.

Hell, and then the lake of fire is a place completely devoid of God and all his attributes.
God is Love, there will be no love.
God is light, there will be no light.
God is holy, there will be no holiness.
God is righteous, there will be no righteousness.
God is just, you will receive justice for your sin, and then be without any means of obtaining justice afterwards.
God is comfort, there will be no comfort.
God is hope, there will be no hope.
On and on the list goes.
Everything that God is, if you actually choose to spend your eternity separated from God, you will have none of God, his nature, or attributes.

Exactly as you want.

This is the consequence of sin and refusing to receive the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

??‍

 

[Tiburon]

I.e., you're not actually "going by what the bible says..."
Curious how that works when it suits your bias, while ignoring what the bible says when it doesn't agree with your beliefs and biases.

Yes. He did know what was going to happen.
He says several times beforehand that he would be betrayed, handed over to the leadership and then beaten and crucified, and then 3 days later, rise from the dead.

How many times did Jesus predict His death? | GotQuestions.org

How many times did Jesus predict His death? Why did the disciples repeatedly fail to understand that Jesus was going to die on the cross?

www.gotquestions.org

So, if you're going to continue to make statements about "just going on what the bible says", make sure you actually know what the bible says.




Yep.
But the love of God is more important to him than doing it his own way.

Mat 26:42 WEB Again, a second time he went away and prayed, saying, “My Father, if this cup can’t pass away from me unless I drink it, your desire be done.”

Mar 14:36 WEB He said, “Abba, Father, all things are possible to you. Please remove this cup from me. However, not what I desire, but what you desire.”

Luk 22:41-45 WEB 41 He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and he knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him, strengthening him. 44 Being in agony, he prayed more earnestly. His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down on the ground. 45 When he rose up from his prayer, he came to the disciples and found them sleeping because of grief,

Then in John 10, Jesus said that nobody takes his life from him. He gives it of his own accord.

Joh 10:14-18 WEB 14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own; 15 even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd. 17 Therefore the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it away from me, but I lay it down by myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. I received this commandment from my Father.”

"So, if you're going to continue to make statements about "just going on what the bible says", make sure you actually know what the bible says."
By going to some website and having it tell me what I should understand the Bible says?

Seems to me he was asking God to choose otherwise. He'd given up making decisions for himself.

 

[SteveB]

"So, if you're going to continue to make statements about "just going on what the bible says", make sure you actually know what the bible says."
By going to some website and having it tell me what I should understand the Bible says?

Actually, you're being given the addresses, so you can pull out a bible and read it for yourself.
This is what we're instructed to do as followers of Jesus.
Even unbelievers had the integrity to do it.

Act 17:11 WEB Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

So, is it that you don't actually want to know the truth for yourself, you don't have a bible anymore, or you don't care?

www.bible.com
www.blb.org
www.biblehub.com
www.thekingsbible.com
www.biblestudytools.com
www.biblica.com
www.esv.org

You're more than welcome to check any or all of them. Do your own Google search for "online bibles"

Seems to me he was asking God to choose otherwise. He'd given up making decisions for himself.

This is one of those things that we who follow Jesus learn early on in our lives with him.

We read in Proverbs 3,

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

It's more effective in resolving hard life issues. God has promised to guide us through the really hard and painful times in our lives by seeking his guidance and direction.
It's actually quite nice. I can commit myself to him, and he guides me in the best possible ways.

Pro 16:3 WEB Commit your deeds to Yahweh, and your plans shall succeed.


This is something that you would have learned had you followed Jesus.

And you can indeed start now.

 

[Tiburon]

Actually, you're being given the addresses, so you can pull out a bible and read it for yourself.
This is what we're instructed to do as followers of Jesus.
Even unbelievers had the integrity to do it.

Act 17:11 WEB Now these were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

So, is it that you don't actually want to know the truth for yourself, you don't have a bible anymore, or you don't care?

www.bible.com
www.blb.org
www.biblehub.com
www.thekingsbible.com
www.biblestudytools.com
www.biblica.com
www.esv.org

You're more than welcome to check any or all of them. Do your own Google search for "online bibles"





This is one of those things that we who follow Jesus learn early on in our lives with him.

We read in Proverbs 3,

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

It's more effective in resolving hard life issues. God has promised to guide us through the really hard and painful times in our lives by seeking his guidance and direction.
It's actually quite nice. I can commit myself to him, and he guides me in the best possible ways.

Pro 16:3 WEB Commit your deeds to Yahweh, and your plans shall succeed.


This is something that you would have learned had you followed Jesus.

And you can indeed start now.

I can't start believing something that I don't. Not based upon the same input.

 

[The Pixie]

Nope.
He actually gives you what you want, and then says bye bye.

Why do you ignore what it plainly states in the Bible?

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’​

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’​

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”​

It is punishment that God is meting out.

It is certainly not what I want.

You want nothing to do with him, so if you actually want to be left alone, why would you complain about the consequences of being left alone?

The Bible states it is God's punishment. God is choosing this for me.

Remember, you're the one who is telling God you want nothing to do with him.

And God is the one who says he will punish me by torturing me forever.

It is God who wantrs to do that, not me.

So, you're going to get exactly what you want, nothing from God.

No Steve. I do not want that. God does.

Read the Bible.

Hell, and then the lake of fire is a place completely devoid of God and all his attributes.
God is Love, there will be no love.
God is light, there will be no light.
God is holy, there will be no holiness.
God is righteous, there will be no righteousness.
God is just, you will receive justice for your sin, and then be without any means of obtaining justice afterwards.
God is comfort, there will be no comfort.
God is hope, there will be no hope.
On and on the list goes.
Everything that God is, if you actually choose to spend your eternity separated from God, you will have none of God, his nature, or attributes.

Exactly as you want.

This is the consequence of sin and refusing to receive the gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Why do you ignore what it plainly states in the Bible? Here it is again.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’​

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’​

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”​

It is God who wants me punished, not me.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

It is God who wants me punished, not me.

II Peter 3:9:

The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[SteveB]

Why do you ignore what it plainly states in the Bible?

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’​

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’​

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”​

It is punishment that God is meting out.

It is certainly not what I want.


The Bible states it is God's punishment. God is choosing this for me.


And God is the one who says he will punish me by torturing me forever.

It is God who wantrs to do that, not me.


No Steve. I do not want that. God does.

Read the Bible.


Why do you ignore what it plainly states in the Bible? Here it is again.

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’​

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’​

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’​

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”​

It is God who wants me punished, not me.

As Stiggs quoted...

YHVH says that he is not willing that any should perish but that everyone comes to repentance.

Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ.

Then you will enjoy the benefits of the truth, and eternal life.

 

[The Pixie]

As Stiggs quoted...

YHVH says that he is not willing that any should perish but that everyone comes to repentance.

But he is willing to punish those who choose not to repent - to burn them in fire for eternity

When you say repentance, what it all comes down to is loving God or rejecting him. He chooses to burn in hell anyone who who rejects him.

Turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ.

Again, I do not believe Jesus was anything more than a man.

How are you getting along with believing elves exist, Steve?

Then you will enjoy the benefits of the truth, and eternal life.

But with a God who chooses to torture billions for rejecting him.

 

[SteveB]

But he is willing to punish those who choose not to repent - to burn them in fire for eternity

Why would he force you to live with him for eternity when you are loathe to spend even a portion of your life here on earth with him?
Seems like you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

When you say repentance, what it all comes down to is loving God or rejecting him. He chooses to burn in hell anyone who who rejects him.

Again,
Why would he force you to live with him for eternity when you are loathe to spend even a portion of your life here on earth with him?
Seems like you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

Again, I do not believe Jesus was anything more than a man.

And yet here you are arguing with strangers about something that you are saying you don't believe.
Seems like you don't actually know what you're talking about.

How are you getting along with believing elves exist, Steve?

I see you don't actually pay attention to when people explain things to you.
Well, since you are obviously quite skilled at promoting lies and deception, you enjoy it.
2Th 2:10-12 WEB 10 and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 Because of this, God sends them a powerful delusion, that they should believe a lie, 12 that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

But with a God who chooses to torture billions for rejecting him.

Why would he force you to live with him for eternity when you are loathe to spend even a portion of your life here on earth with him?

Seems like you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

 

[Littlefoot`]

Why would he force you to live with him for eternity when you are loathe to spend even a portion of your life here on earth with him?
Seems like you don't actually understand what you're talking about.

Well, is there any reason that "hell" can't be a pretty nice place to live...erm.. well.. exist? And god meets with you after death and see if you want to have a relationship.

 

[SteveB]

Well, is there any reason that "hell" can't be a pretty nice place to live...erm.. well.. exist? And god meets with you after death and see if you want to have a relationship.

While I definitely wouldn't recommend it, you're more than welcome to find out for yourself.

Then you can come back and tell us about it.

 

[Littlefoot`]

While I definitely wouldn't recommend it, you're more than welcome to find out for yourself.

Then you can come back and tell us about it.

The whole life flashing before your eyes thing is reruns at this point

 

[SteveB]

The whole life flashing before your eyes thing is reruns at this point

Well, that's assuming that it ends there.

Do you have enough knowledge to guarantee that's where it stops?

Or are you guessing and hoping that you're right?

Jesus was pretty clear that hell, and the lake of fire are real places, that will last forever.