HealTheLand
Active member
it is better (wiser) to say, "I don't know".... agnostic? to err on the side of unknown / but possible -- because -- don't know.
How to know that God exists.
- Thread starter yrger
- Start date
it is better (wiser) to say, "I don't know".... agnostic? to err on the side of unknown / but possible -- because -- don't know.
Manfred
Well-known member
Ok, so there was a difference in the drive to procreate billions of years ago between some species while others had a good drive.
What do you propose changed?
Temujin
Well-known member
Nothing changed. Everything that every biological organism does is directly or indirectly aimed at preserving and reproducing that organism's genes.
Manfred
Well-known member
Agreed. So how old is the universe according to the latest "authority"
For ten good mutations to occur consecutively and confirm your theories it woul be 1: "how many trillion"
I agree that chemistry is not chance.
Something like evolution is based on pure chance.
Temujin
Well-known member
The universe as we know it is roughly 13.75 billion years old.
There are up to 2 trillion galaxies in the observable universe, each with on average 200 million stars.
There are an estimate of 8.5 million species of living organism on earth most undiscovered and the vast majority single celled.
As far as probabilities are concerned, in the universe as a whole, if it is not impossible, then it is compulsory.
Temujin
Well-known member
Evolution is not based on chance . Your "ten consecutive mutations in a row", is a piece of nonsense pulled out of the bottom of an ignorant and dishonest informant. I recommend you learn the basics before repeating it.
Manfred
Well-known member
So tell me if a building block of evolution - continuous improvement is good mutation, then why do you not need 10 good mutations at minimum without interruption - decreased improvement.
Is it your statement that a building block of evolution is bad mutation?
Temujin
Well-known member
Natural selection fixes each improving mutation.
Each mutation occurs in different individuals, whose progeny breed.
"Bad" mutations quickly remove themselves from the gene pool. "Good" mutations persist and spread through the gene pool.
Gus Bovona
Well-known member
Temujin has replied with what I would have said, basically. See T’s replies. I’ll weigh, still, if I see something that needs to be said.
SteveB
Well-known member
Knowledge is the basis for belief.
We read in Hosea 4,
God is talking through Hosea, and tells us,
My people are destroyed by the lack of knowledge.
In proverbs 29, we read- where there is no understanding, the people cast off restraint. But happy are those who keep the law.
In Romans 10, we read
Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
The entire point is that in order to have a valid and solid position for faith, we must know God and his Word.
We see in 2 Peter 1 that our experience of God's Grace and Peace are multiplied to us through our knowledge of God and Jesus.
So, the latter is a requirement to build a valid position for the former.
Sounds like you have a problem with understanding.
What you want me to know doesn't make me know only what you know.
YHVH says that he will give us a heart to know him.
Jesus said that what is impossible for us as humans, is not a problem for God.
In another place, Jesus said-- all things are possible to him who believes.
In your opinion, I'd agree.
I'm referring to the truth.
It possesses infinite intrinsic value.
Not special. God-breathed. There's a difference.
Not really. God did what he says he would.
Not me. But the passage is documented, and was documented some ~1950 years ago.
The Jewish bible. What Christianity states is the old testament.
Yep.
It was reading their writings and then studying the bible that I learned that they're referring to the old testament.
They were the only scriptures that existed in their lives.
So, in the book of Acts when we read that they proved that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel, from the scriptures, they were referring to the old testament.
Nope. That was a one time historical event, several thousand years ago.
Pity you never actually paid attention to what you were reading when you were claiming to be a Christian.
Mercy, compassion, respect, dignity....
It's described throughout the entire bible.
But, let's start with Matthew 5-7, Romans 12, 14, 1 John. There are many more, but that's a good place to start.
SteveB
Well-known member
Did it ever occur to you that if you never actually met Jesus, you're not actually continuing in his teachings?
It's all contained in the bible. You're more than welcome to do your own investigation and verification.
In fact, I actually want you to!
And based solely on your own testimony, you experienced nothing.
And according to John 6, and 8.... Jesus responded to you.
That's because you have claimed that you never actually met Jesus.
Jesus was quite clear that he will not turn away anyone who comes to him. John 6.
Then in John 8, Jesus said that if you continue to engage in his teachings you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
We then read in Timothy that if you are faithless, God will remain faithful, because he cannot deny himself.
So.... you tell me....
What happened?
According to the bible, if you engaged God through Jesus Christ, then Jesus welcomed you with open arms.
If you did not, then he did not.
It's the difference between heaven and hell for an eternity.
Indeed! So why aren't you?
Nope.
You however appear to be doing this all by yourself.
Tell me what happened.
Jesus was quite clear that he will not turn away anyone who comes to him.
He said he would welcome with open arms all who come to him.
So, seeing that he welcomes everyone who comes to him, why didn't you meet him?
Yep. That is what the bible says.
Jeremiah 29 tells us that when we seek God with a whole heart, we will meet him.
So you tell me....
Why did you not meet God?
Claiming he doesn't exist doesn't work.
People all over the world have been making acquaintance with God and Jesus for the past two millennia. No problem whatsoever.
So, why are you and the other atheists who claim to have been christians at some point in their pasts so special that God didn't do what he said he would?
Heb 6:18 WEB that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we may have a strong encouragement, who have fled for refuge to take hold of the hope set before us.
Since it's impossible for God to lie, why did he lie to you but not to the rest of us who are following Jesus?
Why should I?
People have been meeting Jesus for millennia. We've had no problem with his making himself known to us.
One of the things we often discuss is the statement by Paul to the Galatians...
Gal 1:6-9 WEB 6 I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ to a different “good news”, 7 but there isn’t another “good news.” Only there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the Good News of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you any “good news” other than that which we preached to you, let him be cursed. 9 As we have said before, so I now say again: if any man preaches to you any “good news” other than that which you received, let him be cursed.
Apparently it's possible to get the wrong Jesus. Mormons have done it, as have the Jehovah's Witnesses. Others too have concocted a false Jesus. They've created their own ideas of God.
We read in the law that this is idolatry. Something that God does not tolerate.
If we continue to adhere to our false beliefs and sin, God will leave us alone.
So, you tell me...
What makes you so special that God would ignore you while making sure that the rest of us would actually meet him?
Let me guess....the rest of us are psychotic and you're the only one in your right mind?
I'd be ready to believe that had God not stated,
Those who fear God and do his commands have a good understanding.
Psalm 111:10.
Nope. I'd never opened the bible.
The only thing I did do was to engage him on his terms.
I.e., I asked him an honest question about his reality, and the truth regarding Jesus.
I wasn't looking for an argument. I didn't want to try to win. I just wanted to know the truth.
Actually, there's only one thing that I've seen throughout the past several decades, and that's
We all engaged him on his terms.
And once we were satisfied with his response, we chose to believe him.
You on the other hand appear to believe that you are more special than the rest of us are/were.
You apparently don't think that what the rest of us have needed to do applies to you.
Why is this? What makes you so special?
Actually, they told me that you're just not that important. ??
It'd answer the questions you claim to want answers to.
But you just demonstrated that your questions aren't that important.
Which explains why their response to my request for a letter.
Ever wonder why?
Where I come from, that means-- it worked really well for me. Why wouldn't you?
And yet it works really well for those of us who have it and take the time to learn to use it.
???
Common sense.
You should try it sometime. It's astonishing the things you can learn.
You are right though.... common sense is not that common.
I have come to view it as a result of having taken chances with situations where it didn't seem like it'd work.
Perhaps even after people had said- "don't do that. You'll hurt yourself."
I found that the benefits far outweighed the costs. And I gained some sense through it all.
Romans 10:9
Rom 10:9-11 WEB 9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.”
Yet that's exactly what you're saying!
It doesn't work, so why bother?!
So, if you agree that it's a bad excuse..... why are you doing it?
Nope.
I ended up with a relationship with the True and Living God and his Son, Jesus.
I have a friend who sticks closer than a brother. I have a great teacher, encourager, comforter, hope restorer, and Father who hears my prayers, and answers me when I call.
Then, after all that and more, when I die, he'll welcome me into his home to spend forever with him.
All things he has promised to give the entire human race, throughout all history.
All he has asked is that we come to Jesus.
Ok. That requires a subscription fee here. Furthermore, it wasn't created until 1857.
So, it's later than the one I'm using.
I further looked for earlier versions, but none were available online.
I'm guessing they were either absorbed into later dictionaries, or went the way of the dodo bird. Bye bye!
webstersdictionary1828.com
He said that he's already given us everything we need to believe he's the creator of the cosmos.
Tiburon
Well-known member
Actually it's not. Information is the basis for belief.
That information may be true or false and so will the belief based upon it.
No, I understand. Show me that you have access to some part of reality that I don't?
You are referring to belief.
When you can show it to be true then I'll value it.
What's more special than "God-breathed."
No, you seem to have a naïve acceptance of things at face value. At least when it comes to the Bible.
The Septuagint or the Masoretic Text. Were Pauls letters considered "Scripture"? How about those books we now label "Apocrypha"?
They were not the only scriptures that existed during their lives. There are a host of other books seen as scriptural by a variety of people at that time.
It reflects God's treatment of humanity. You said you treat them as God does. Where is the mercy, compassion, respect and dignity in casting everyone into hell for not believing Jesus?
Try using your own words Steve.
mikeT
Well-known member
This thread is a good example of how we can know yrger's God doesn't exist.
If someone were to ask me how they can know I exist, I can give them reams of personal information which can be corroborated by people and agencies beyond my personal control. No one piece of information will infallibly prove that I exist - but the combination of many independent verifiable pieces of information can-and-will build a very reasonable case for my existence. My name, birth date, social security records, residential address, birth certificate, tax returns, driver's license, handgun license, social media accounts and activity, identities of my friends and employers, etc - all can be researched and independently verified
yrger doesn't have any of that. If I grant him one good argument which suggests that a creator deity exists - it's nothing more than an argument. He'd need to provide eye-witness accounts and independent corroboration for the details. That'd be a good start to showing how we can know his God exists.
And yet I've spent more than 30 years talking about God and religion with believers, and the quality of their information is nothing better than personal testimony, feelings, and the occasional apologetics argument which hints at the possibility of a deity existing.
There is a massive amount of evidence for the existence of very average, normal things. There's little-to-none for gods. This is how we can know they don't exist.
If someone were to ask me how they can know I exist, I can give them reams of personal information which can be corroborated by people and agencies beyond my personal control. No one piece of information will infallibly prove that I exist - but the combination of many independent verifiable pieces of information can-and-will build a very reasonable case for my existence. My name, birth date, social security records, residential address, birth certificate, tax returns, driver's license, handgun license, social media accounts and activity, identities of my friends and employers, etc - all can be researched and independently verified
yrger doesn't have any of that. If I grant him one good argument which suggests that a creator deity exists - it's nothing more than an argument. He'd need to provide eye-witness accounts and independent corroboration for the details. That'd be a good start to showing how we can know his God exists.
And yet I've spent more than 30 years talking about God and religion with believers, and the quality of their information is nothing better than personal testimony, feelings, and the occasional apologetics argument which hints at the possibility of a deity existing.
There is a massive amount of evidence for the existence of very average, normal things. There's little-to-none for gods. This is how we can know they don't exist.
Tiburon
Well-known member
His teaching are his teachings.
I experience Jesus not answering the door when I knocked.
And according to me he didn't.
I know you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. I do not.
My experience tells me that the Bible is wrong.
No it's the difference between death and the possibility of something we have no knowledge of.
I am.
And yet he didn't welcome me with open arms. Unless it was in a way that I found imperceptible.
Seeing that the Bible says he welcomes everyone who comes to him. Obviously the Bible is wrong.
People all over the world have believed a lot of unfounded things over millennia.
You tell me why God didn't do what the Bible claims?
It could be that the Bible isn't actually the word of God.
It could be that God "hardened our hearts".
People believe they have been meeting Jesus for millennia. None have proven it.
I'd suggest that all believers have created their own ideas of God.
Psychotic? No. Mistaken? Yes.
No, you engaged him on your terms.
Do they know me? Sounds like they don't want to put there name to something that might have them held up to ridicule.Actually, they told me that you're just not that important. ??
Doesn't say much for the strength of their conviction.
Why would me coming there and asking the question in person provide me with anything more than their written testimony?
Apart from knowing you didn't write it yourself.
Because people don't generally doubt that they aren't doing what every other sensible person would do.
Just like the majority of people consider themselves better than average drivers.
Can you take a course in "common sense"?
I didn't think Jesus had said it. I would have remembered that.
What?
You said "Don't use things that you haven't actually done before. It's a bad practice."
Following that advice none of us would ever do anything.
Imaginary friends are like that.
That's what the Bible says so it doesn't have to back up it's claims.
I could believe that there is a God that is the creator of the cosmos.
I cannot believe that same God is behind the Bible.
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
FCP
Member
You evade.
So you declare nature = God?
SteveB
Well-known member
Information is knowledge.
The practicality of the information is whether or not it's wisdom or just trivia.
As Paul said to Timothy, the scriptures are able to make us wise to salvation.
Valuable information is practical. The rest, while it may indeed be interesting, is not something that will change your life for the better.
Biblical knowledge is of eternal value, and can completely change your life for the best possible outcome.
Indeed.
I did.
2Co 4:18 WEB while we don’t look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
And more
Eph 1:17-19 WEB 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of his calling, and what are the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to that working of the strength of his might
Psa 111:10 WEB The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. All those who do his work have a good understanding. His praise endures forever!
Psa 25:14 WEB The friendship of Yahweh is with those who fear him. He will show them his covenant.
It's actually quite awesome.
Another one,
Eph 3:16-21 WEB 16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that you may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inner person, 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith, to the end that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may be strengthened to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and height and depth, 19 and to know Christ’s love which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. 20 Now to him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, 21 to him be the glory in the assembly and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
The interesting thing is, it gets an infinite level better in eternity.
We receive a deposit from God, as a pledge of our inheritance in Christ and then we have access to God through Jesus Christ.
Eph 1:13-14 WEB 13 In him you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation—in whom, having also believed, you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.
2Co 1:21-22 WEB 21 Now he who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave us the down payment of the Spirit in our hearts.
2Co 5:5 WEB Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.
So, you want a complete stranger whom you have repeatedly made clear you don't want to believe, to convince you using words you previously established that you are rejecting, of someone whom you say you want to know, but refuse to engage him on his terms, so you can know....
Just how do you see this working?
Quite frankly I'm surprised that you are saying that to me.
You either want to know for yourself or not.
I've been on this forum for almost a decade now. Nothing I've explained to you yet has convinced you, so what would change now? More of the same message? Jesus died to pay the penalty for your sin.
He said he would not turn away anyone who comes to him.
YHVH says that he will give you a heart to know him.
Looks pretty clear to me.
This is not about words arranged in such a manner as to make you believe something.
This is about you taking yourself seriously enough to actually engage YHVH on his terms.
In another post to another poster, you said you prayed as a child.
So why aren't you praying as an adult?
There were lots of failures I had as a child, which I later turned into successes as an adult.
I was a high school dropout. At 21 I got my GED. In my late thirties through mid forties I attended college and did far beyond anything I could've hoped for had I gone to college in my late teens, early twenties.
It was life's experiences and challenges that gave me the courage to achieve what I did.
So.... why would you let childhood failures stop you from experiencing the truth as an adult?
Far better than Steve-breathed, or Tiburon-breathed.
When God breathes on something, life is given to inanimate objects.
Gen 2:7 Yahweh God formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul
In Ezekiel 37 we read about the prophet Ezekiel having a dialogue with YHVH regarding a valley filled with bones. Dry bones. God told Ezekiel to speak to the bones, and he did. The bones became bodies, fully skinned, but not alive. God asked him if they could live, and Ezekiel said he didn't know. So God told he to speak to the winds, and breathe life into the inanimate bodies. He spoke and the bodies became alive, and were a mighty army.
So... yeah.... when God breathes, the inanimate becomes alive.
??
???????Pity you have no idea what you're talking about!
I've been a consistent pain in the derriere of God for a very long time.
I wouldn't consider myself a Thomas, but I did start out asking God if he was real and if Jesus was true.
The past 45+ years have been a series of q/a, with lots of doubts, and questions.. asking for help, and a million other little things.
Naive is the last thing people who know me would describe me as.
The thing that has blown me away is that God has had no problem with working through it with me.
In fact, we read in 1 Timothy
1Ti 1:16 However, for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first, Jesus Christ might display all his patience for an example of those who were going to believe in him for eternal life.
God is exceedingly patient and is willing to work with those who take him seriously.
The Masoretic text was established in the Jamnia Council of 95 CE.
The Septuagint is a Greek translation from the ancient Hebrew text in ~250 BCE.
72 Hebrew scholars who were skilled in Greek wrote it up.
So, while the new testament writers did indeed use the Septuagint, the Masoretic text came much much later.
Not at the time of their writing. It appears that Paul was creating something akin to a post resurrected Jesus commentary on the old testament scriptures.
Dating back to the early to mid second century CE (120-150), there were church fathers who were identifying scriptures of the new testament.
Those were rejected by the Nicean council. Probably the Jamnian council too.
The Masoretic text doesn't have those in them the last I checked.
Nope.
This is the same collection of writings that our "Christian bible" has for the "old testament."
Sure, in other, non-Hebrew cultures.
The Egyptians had their writings. I'm sure that the Hindus had something, perhaps the Greeks. I have no idea about the eastern Asian peoples.
SteveB
Well-known member
Where is the mercy, compassion, respect and dignity in forcing people to live in a civilization where they don't want to be?
The holiness and righteousness of God is far more profound than you grasp.
Ever watch a cockroach scatter when the lights are turned on?
In 1 Timothy 6, we read that God dwells in light so bright that nobody can approach him.
In Exodus, and 2 Kings, God tells Moses and Elijah that they cannot see God and live.
In Exodus 33-34, there's a description given of Moses and the Israelis, that after Moses visited God, his face shone so brightly that it freaked the people out. So he had to wear a mask to hide his brilliance from them, so they wouldn't freak out.
I'm a melanoma cancer survivor. My exposure to the sun has resulted in damage to my DNA.
My dad, mother in law, wife, and niece all get sun poisoning if they're out in the sun for very long.
The unlimited presence of God is so profound that sin cannot enter his presence.
We read in Revelation 20 that when the unbelievers stood in the presence of God they tried to flee, but no place was found where they could hide.
So, for an unbeliever to enter God's presence, it doesn't just terrify them, it'd destroy their bodies because of his brightness.
What do you know about the electromagnetic spectrum?
Radio waves shorter than microwaves would kill us. XRays are used to see in our bodies for health diagnoses. Too much radiation exposure and our bodies begin to experience irreversible catastrophic damage.
So, as God is light, and dwells in unapproachable light, it's pretty cruel to force people who love their sin and darkness to dwell in the light. Far more cruel than hell, where there is no light. As Jesus said, it's an outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The only people who are able to enter God's presence are those whose sins are cleansed, and wiped clear by God, through the blood of Jesus.
It's the same for everyone. There's no other way.
I have been.
Since childhood.
I include God's Word because it carries with it an inherent/intrinsic power to give life to everyone who believes in Jesus.
It's like the breath of God.
I don't want to just spew fancy ideas. If I did, I'd be talking about completely different topics.
Playing frisbee, hiking in the mountains, going four-wheeling, taking trips to the tropics, programming computers, etc....
I want you to consider choosing eternal life.
I want you to actually meet God and Jesus. They're the ones who are totally worth talking about and meeting.
Tiburon
Well-known member
So if you don't want to go to God's party you should burn in hell?
To everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus, they are just words.
SteveB
Well-known member
Indeed they are.
You said that you try to love your neighbor as your self.
According to Romans 7, the law is spiritual and we are carnal, sold into slavery by our sin. Jesus also said that he who sins is a slave of sin.
All it takes is one violation of the law to sin.
Thankfully, God has explicitly stated that if we agree with him about our sin, he is faithful and just to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So, not does he forgive our sin, he cleanses our sin.
He has a vested interest in keeping a short account with us because he knows what our sin does to us.
He actually wants to spend time with us.
Curious.
He said he's the one knocking, and we just need to be listening. Revelation 3:20.
Are you listening?
[Rev 3:20 NKJV] 20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Curious.... just who do you think would have a greater understanding and perspective of reality.... finite human beings who are alive for maybe 100 years, and can't accurately predict 1 second into the future, or the eternal God, who has infinite understanding and perspective of everything, from eternity past to eternity future, who knows what you're thinking before you do, and can describe your entire life before the foundation of the world was laid?
His perspective has greater understanding, and awareness than anything humans have, or can obtain.
You should be asking why I do.
There's actually a good set of reasons why I do so.
Yep. Got that already.
That finite, limited human experience that has no basis beyond their inexperience?
Ah!
So you're a gambler!
That's a dangerous situation.
I live in Nevada. Gambling is legal and there is an entire industry and economy that the state gets at least 39% of its taxes from on the state budget.
In fact, from the Gaming Resort website--
Gaming taxes were responsible for generating the majority of the industry-generated taxes with $622.9 million, which was 45.2 percent of the total General Fund revenue generated by the industry.
Probably about 20 years ago they finally incorporated a 12 step style anti-gambling-addiction program into the casino industry because of the level of addiction that was taking place here.
People would gamble paychecks away, leaving them unable to pay their debts.
Loan sharks, back in the 50's through the 60's there were rampant murders due to gambling problems in Las Vegas.
So, I find myself wondering why you would be so ready to take so risky a chance with your life. This isn't merely your income. It's your eternity.
Jesus was quite clear about the importance of the human being to God.
What value is it if you gain the whole world and lose your soul?
It is indeed your life. But to take that tact is writing checks you lack the ability to cash.
Are you? Because so far, you're just telling me that he hasn't done for you what he said he would and has been doing for the rest of humanity down throughout the ages.
Ah yes.... "because I'm more special than everyone else, I didn't get what I wanted, I'm not required to obey the truth in order to learn the truth. It's just supposed to appear like magic"
Seems like you have a problem for which there will be no excuses.
Everyone is on the same level when it comes to Jesus.
He has no favorites, he judges everyone without partiality.
It's important to note the following
Heb 5:9 WEB Having been made perfect, he became to all of those who obey him the author of eternal salvation,
Stating that, it's equally important to note that he's ready, able and willing to provide us with, and teach us everything we need to know, and have in order to follow Jesus.
You however have to decide whether you actually want to know him or not.
He came to save sinners. So, the question you need to ask yourself is...
Are you a sinner? Are you in need of a savior?
Because if not, then you're simply excluding yourself from knowing God and that will be on your shoulders. Nobody else's.
Yep. The first-time people believed lies, it brought ruin to the human race and now we're living with the consequences for it.
The next time, a man killed his brother to silence the conviction he was experiencing by refusing to obey God.
So, false beliefs, false religion, and now, all because people prefer to do it their own way, instead of God's way.
So.... yes. People have been doing it for millennia their own ways. That doesn't mean that there's not God's way. Nor does it mean those who ignore God's ways are right and will be justified by God.
One of the most notable things I've noticed is that where there's an overload of information, people have a tendency to just blow everything off, and dismiss it all.
That's a deadly way to go about it.
Ignoring everything because there's just too much information will not be able to justify yourself before God.
He's given everyone the same thing.
He's explicitly stated that he has chosen the foolishness of preaching the cross of Jesus to save everyone who believes in Jesus.
It's your eternity.
Do you actually want to find out the hard way?
Living with regret is bad enough. Living with regret for an eternity is absolutely miserable. Constantly rehashing your various opportunities to engage him, and you want to say yes, but your yeses after the fact fall into empty space and the echoes drive you insane.
Could be. It'd be a real pity to learn that it was you who hardened your own heart and excluded yourself from knowing God.... all because you chose to believe you're just too intelligent and believe that you know better.
That passage that discusses Pharaoh's heart being hardened by God states up front that the pharaoh didn't want to know God. So, God gave him exactly what he wanted. To be left alone. He gave him several miracles to demonstrate himself to make it clear that God was real and knowable. But, the pharaoh would have none of it! Even after his son died because of the Pharaoh's stubbornness, he refused, and went after the Israelis who had left Egypt. He wound up getting himself drowned in the sea for his outrage against God.
So.... the only way God would "harden your heart" is if you continue to refuse to engage him on his terms. And what God is doing, is affirming your choice. Strengthening your resolve to do it your own way.
And the final outcome of this would be incredibly sad.
It's yet to happen.
The millennium is the 2nd to the next phase of human existence.
Following the harpadzo (greek word for "snatched way by force, aka rapture) of the Jesus followers, there will be a 7-year period of civilization that will result in the near utter demise of humanity.
The first 3-1/2 years will be a period of unprecedented growth and development for humans. They'll believe that global peace has finally been realized. Jesus followers won't be around to remind them, but God will give a witness to his reality through that time. It's sounding more and more like this new guy, Juval Noah Harari, and Klaus Schwab's ideas.
Then the beginning of the end starts when the global leader decides to step into the holiest place of the Jewish community and declare himself God.
At which point, you'll have another 3-1/2 years remaining.
And it'll be brutally gruesome and ugly. Literally everything will start falling apart.
Jesus said that it'll be worse than at any other time in history and will never again be so bad.
After the 7 years, the day will come when Jesus comes on horseback with the saints from throughout the ages, and put down a global attack against him (the actual battle of Armageddon). He'll set foot on the mount of Olives and it'll split in two, from east to west.
Afterwards, there will be a 45 day judgment of the nations. Those who are accounted worthy will get to enter God's Kingdom on earth. Those who are not, will be shown the door to hell, where they'll wait for one thousand years until the great white throne judgment.
People who believe God will live for at least 1000 years, and those who do not believe God will die at 100 years of age, and will be viewed as children.