Defending Christianity from Christians

Yes and anyone who has not receieved from God that what Jesus did...

DOnt you know that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation but is within you? Luke 17:20-21, but obviously you do not know that.
Just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also live in newness of life. Rom 6:4
Do not present yourselves as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead in Christ Jesus.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
 
In this latest post from you it looks like you have largely abandoned trying to make your case from the text of Romans and are instead trying to justify why you read certain things into Romans from other texts. That is a recipe for misunderstanding, error, and ultimately interpretive chaos.

Using cult leaders as an extreme example, the first guy reads X into Scripture where it pleases him, the second guy reads Y into Scripture where it pleases him, the third reads Z into Scripture, and so on. However many false interpreters and interpretations that there are they will all say theirs is the right interpretation. And many if not all of them will claim Inspiration from God, or the Holy Spirit, or a dream, or reading tea leaves, etc.

When the risen Lord opened the minds of the disciples to understand the Scriptures it wasn't the marks on the page, words on the page, that changed. The right understanding is going to come from reading Scripture according to the God given perfect immediate context in which it was given rather than a game of Scripture passage bingo.
Yes. At first glance Paul appears to be avowing sin. What sin do you believe he was engaging in?
The adjective wicked or ungodly isn't limited to a single sin or a single type of sin. To look for or guess at either is to miss his point because he explicitly wrote that he was laying out the common faith to the believers at Rome whom he has never met. See Romans 1:1-15.

What he writes of being a tested man in Romans seven is a readily identifiable true experience of all Christians.
Right. Of course God grants justification to sinners who repent.

Obviously the truth of your statement depends on who "we" are. Paul was telling those who wish to be saved that they can no longer sin. If you continue to sin, you do so in disobedience to Paul and the God he spoke for.
Again, see Romans 1. Paul was writing to believers. Also, the verbs of Romans 6:1 exclude the interpretation you offer. For example, the verbs now in bold are present tense statements of fact, reality, or truth. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” (Rom 6:1, KJVA)
Note that nowhere in this passage does Paul specify any particular sin. He's speaking very generally of sin no doubt to cover any sins potential converts might be committing.
Again, Paul was writing to believers.

“7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be [The words "called" and "saints" are adjectives, the words "to be" were added by the translators] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.” (Rom 1:7-8, KJVA)

If you think he's avowing his own sin that he was committing at that time, then please post what iniquity you think he was working. Surely you can come up with something seeing that you are so confident that Paul was a sinner when he wrote his epistles. At that time was Paul fornicating or engaging in homosexual acts? Was he a thief, a liar, an adulterer, a blasphemer, or an idolater?
You asked a similar question above and it remains that this latest question misses the point for the same reason.
Christ was said to be without sin.
Christ is without sin.
Other people were said to be "righteous." (Mark 2:17)
Since Jesus was answering the error of the scribes and Pharisees that interpretation isn't supported by the context.

“And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?” (Mar 2:16, KJVA)

The category of sinners is greater than that of publicans and manifest sinners. It includes those same scribes and Pharisees who were wondering how Jesus could eat with those sinners. (More on the relative use of righteous below.)
The man who asked Jesus for eternal life is described as sinless. (Matthew 19:20)
That is an inference which the context doesn't allow since the guy balked at being complete or perfect and then went away sad.
Noah was an obvious exception.
There is nothing in Scripture which indicates Noah was sinless. Otherwise, Noah would not have found grace or favor with God.
That's correct.

True, but how does any of that lend approval to the sin you refuse to repent of?
It doesn't lend approval to sin. Through the law is the knowledge of sin. Sin is always sin.
Yes, we can trust God to forgive our sins when we repent. You keep forgetting that last part.
Christ was freely given for our sins. Christ wasn't given for our sins based on a condition which we must first meet.

There is no Christian repentance apart from faith in Christ, a gift from God. The risen Lord in Luke 24:44ff told the guys to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name. The law is already written in men's hearts, and some also have the written law, so they already know sin is wrong. The repentance, the change of mind, which the disciples were speaking of is towards Christ in whom alone is the forgiveness of sins.

An iidol worshippers who sacrificed a hundred people to his idol at the last festival may repent and resolve to sacrifice ten people or a thousand people at the next festival, but in neither instance is it Christian repentance.

In the same way, the guy who believes that he'll have another beer but then repents, has a change of mind, and passes on another round or decides to have ten more beers, is not repenting in a Christian sense.
I never cease to be amazed! So now those who seek sinlessness are pagans and unbelievers. On the other hand the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, men who engage in illicit sex, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, swindlers—all of them will inherit the kingdom of God according to your interpretation of Paul's epistles. Can you just picture Paul at a drunken sex orgy in a bed engraved with idols and him cuddling with male prostitutes planning to swindle his followers out of their meager savings?
It is only your imagination that is amazing you since seeking sinlessness in this life is the goal, but it is only reached in this life in Christ through faith. It isn't reached, and can't be reached, in this life apart from faith in Christ. That is Paul's point about baptism into Christ.

Continuing on in Romans six from verse three.

“3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life....” (Rom 6:3-4..., KJVA)

Read Romans seven and eight in light of Romans 6.
 
When the risen Lord opened the minds of the disciples to understand the Scriptures it wasn't the marks on the page, words on the page, that changed. The right understanding is going to come from reading Scripture according to the God given perfect immediate context in which it was given rather than a game of Scripture passage bingo.

The adjective wicked or ungodly isn't limited to a single sin or a single type of sin. To look for or guess at either is to miss his point because he explicitly wrote that he was laying out the common faith to the believers at Rome whom he has never met. See Romans 1:1-15.
The right understanding from Scripture is that the ungodly have not known the way of peace. (Rom 3:17)
Through the law is the knowledge of sin. Sin is always sin.

Christ was freely given for our sins. There is no Christian repentance apart from faith in Christ, a gift from God. The risen Lord in Luke 24:44
Bingo. "I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, but to fulfill." Matt 5:17
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you" ...“Receive the Holy Spirit...." John 20:19-23
That is Paul's point about baptism into Christ. Continuing on in Romans six from verse three.

“3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life....” (Rom 6:3-4..., KJVA)

Read Romans seven and eight in light of Romans 6.

Life Through the Spirit

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8

 
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Just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we also live in newness of life. Rom 6:4
Do not present yourselves as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead in Christ Jesus.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom 6
You snit people posts to read what you want them too read just as you the Bible instead of posting what really is said. You try and make it sound as you would have it and notorious for doing the same thing of the Bible.
 
The right understanding from Scripture is that the ungodly have not known the way of peace. (Rom 3:17)
Yes these are of sin instead of righteousness.
Bingo. "I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, but to fulfill." Matt 5:17
Yes be as I Am.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
And they didnt even recognize him for he appeared in different forms just as he does today for us all who are of Gods Christ anointed of Him appear to folk in a different form you cant recognize him either and he is right in front of you, but because you serve a different god from the Christ be in you as He was in Jesus, you never will see nor know him.

Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you" ...“Receive the Holy Spirit...." John 20:19-23
And he stands among you this day saying the same thing. Recieve Gods Spirit as he did in Matt 3:16 and let God open up to you who He is and all of His heaven in you but you won't have any part of His Holy Spirit to do so as He did in Jesus, Adam, Moses, 120 and in me.

Life Through the Spirit

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

Exactly it is the sinners who condemn themselves. Paul condemned himself as a sinner instead of being a saint of god, he lived in the darkness of sin and even admits it.

2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8

He just didnt follow the ways of Christ to be like Him. He loved his sin more then God of he would have turned to God, the One who takes away the sins of this world, sou would you and all of these who are sinners instead of letting the One take away their sin. You said you are a sinner right? Read 1 John 3:8 it tells who you guys are of as a sinner and the sinner that Paul was.
 
In this latest post from you it looks like you have largely abandoned trying to make your case from the text of Romans and are instead trying to justify why you read certain things into Romans from other texts. That is a recipe for misunderstanding, error, and ultimately interpretive chaos.
Big time!
Using cult leaders as an extreme example, the first guy reads X into Scripture where it pleases him, the second guy reads Y into Scripture where it pleases him, the third reads Z into Scripture, and so on. However many false interpreters and interpretations that there are they will all say theirs is the right interpretation. And many if not all of them will claim Inspiration from God, or the Holy Spirit, or a dream, or reading tea leaves, etc.
This is so true. Go to one church and they say this is the truth, go to the one across the street and they No' that is not the truth this is the truth, and the one on the next corner says No' you both are wrong this is the truth and that is common with every church on every corner.
When the risen Lord opened the minds of the disciples to understand the Scriptures it wasn't the marks on the page, words on the page, that changed. The right understanding is going to come from reading Scripture according to the God given perfect immediate context in which it was given rather than a game of Scripture passage bingo.
One cant know what it actually is trying to convey without the having His same mind,. or Spirit it is called. Read Matt 3:16, not even Jesus could understand without that same enlightenment from God for He opens up who He is and all of His heaven in that man. But because most dont actually believe the Bible that it was expedient for Jesus understanding.

These cant understand from lack in that same enlightenment in themselves. Jesus referred to this education as born again. He had first hand experience, but it is the same as Adam receieved in Gen 3:22, he became like Him as well, so did Abraham, Moses receieved the same enlightenment, so did 120 in an upper room, and so did I.
The adjective wicked or ungodly isn't limited to a single sin or a single type of sin. To look for or guess at either is to miss his point because he explicitly wrote that he was laying out the common faith to the believers at Rome whom he has never met. See Romans 1:1-15.

What he writes of being a tested man in Romans seven is a readily identifiable true experience of all Christians.

Again, see Romans 1. Paul was writing to believers. Also, the verbs of Romans 6:1 exclude the interpretation you offer. For example, the verbs now in bold are present tense statements of fact, reality, or truth. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” (Rom 6:1, KJVA)

Again, Paul was writing to believers.
Believers in Paul or in God? For {all preached these to be without sin yet he was a sinner said he was couldn't shake his sin. That is why I follow the ways of Jesus who was without sin and taught we can be perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect and I do not see Gods perfection having sin it.
“7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be [The words "called" and "saints" are adjectives, the words "to be" were added by the translators] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.” (Rom 1:7-8, KJVA)


You asked a similar question above and it remains that this latest question misses the point for the same reason.

Christ is without sin.

Since Jesus was answering the error of the scribes and Pharisees that interpretation isn't supported by the context.

“And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?” (Mar 2:16, KJVA)

The category of sinners is greater than that of publicans and manifest sinners. It includes those same scribes and Pharisees who were wondering how Jesus could eat with those sinners. (More on the relative use of righteous below.)

That is an inference which the context doesn't allow since the guy balked at being complete or perfect and then went away sad.

There is nothing in Scripture which indicates Noah was sinless. Otherwise, Noah would not have found grace or favor with God.

It doesn't lend approval to sin. Through the law is the knowledge of sin. Sin is always sin.
whose laws is in question. Catholic law? Mormon law? Pentecostals law? Baptists law.

Do not all of these have their own bylaws to govern their beliefs?
Christ was freely given for our sins. Christ wasn't given for our sins based on a condition which we must first meet.

There is no Christian repentance apart from faith in Christ, a gift from God. The risen Lord in Luke 24:44ff told the guys to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name. The law is already written in men's hearts, and some also have the written law, so they already know sin is wrong. The repentance, the change of mind, which the disciples were speaking of is towards Christ in whom alone is the forgiveness of sins.
Jesus didnt say go and make disciples according ones laws for a belief system, he said go, and that word go simply means live it, be that example of God that he was. Action speaks a whole lot louder than words. That is exactly why Jesus said if you cant believe what I say believe that what I do.
An iidol worshippers who sacrificed a hundred people to his idol at the last festival may repent and resolve to sacrifice ten people or a thousand people at the next festival, but in neither instance is it Christian repentance.

In the same way, the guy who believes that he'll have another beer but then repents, has a change of mind, and passes on another round or decides to have ten more beers, is not repenting in a Christian sense.

It is only your imagination that is amazing you since seeking sinlessness in this life is the goal, but it is only reached in this life in Christ through faith. It isn't reached, and can't be reached, in this life apart from faith in Christ. That is Paul's point about baptism into Christ.

Continuing on in Romans six from verse three.

“3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life....” (Rom 6:3-4..., KJVA)

Read Romans seven and eight in light of Romans 6.
What Paul spoke here came from his mouth, but his heart was still in sin. Had a thorn in his flesh and said that thorn was his desire to be exalted beyond measure for his abundance of revelations. Like nearly all preachers want their name on the marque, and in that, the best salesman wins.
 
From this out of context question it is obvious that you weren't following the discussion.
Sure I was I read it all. But do you think that Jesus wasn't accuse as a cult leader, then tell me why the Jews had him crucified for being a leader of what they accused him of as blasphemer? Was he or was he not?

I read where they did accuse him of blaspheme, a cult leader, against their laws that Jesus once was of just as we have today people sitting in pews learning the laws for beliefs just as Jesus once taught in even from a young age. These are the very ones he once taught their laws who had him crucified for blaspheme.

If that doesnt pertain too the comment about cult leaders then perhaps you can clarify?
 
In this latest post from you it looks like you have largely abandoned trying to make your case from the text of Romans and are instead trying to justify why you read certain things into Romans from other texts. That is a recipe for misunderstanding, error, and ultimately interpretive chaos.

Using cult leaders as an extreme example, the first guy reads X into Scripture where it pleases him, the second guy reads Y into Scripture where it pleases him, the third reads Z into Scripture, and so on. However many false interpreters and interpretations that there are they will all say theirs is the right interpretation. And many if not all of them will claim Inspiration from God, or the Holy Spirit, or a dream, or reading tea leaves, etc.

When the risen Lord opened the minds of the disciples to understand the Scriptures it wasn't the marks on the page, words on the page, that changed. The right understanding is going to come from reading Scripture according to the God given perfect immediate context in which it was given rather than a game of Scripture passage bingo.

The adjective wicked or ungodly isn't limited to a single sin or a single type of sin. To look for or guess at either is to miss his point because he explicitly wrote that he was laying out the common faith to the believers at Rome whom he has never met. See Romans 1:1-15.

What he writes of being a tested man in Romans seven is a readily identifiable true experience of all Christians.

Again, see Romans 1. Paul was writing to believers. Also, the verbs of Romans 6:1 exclude the interpretation you offer. For example, the verbs now in bold are present tense statements of fact, reality, or truth. “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” (Rom 6:1, KJVA)

Again, Paul was writing to believers.

“7. To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be [The words "called" and "saints" are adjectives, the words "to be" were added by the translators] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. 8. First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.” (Rom 1:7-8, KJVA)


You asked a similar question above and it remains that this latest question misses the point for the same reason.

Christ is without sin.

Since Jesus was answering the error of the scribes and Pharisees that interpretation isn't supported by the context.

“And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?” (Mar 2:16, KJVA)

The category of sinners is greater than that of publicans and manifest sinners. It includes those same scribes and Pharisees who were wondering how Jesus could eat with those sinners. (More on the relative use of righteous below.)

That is an inference which the context doesn't allow since the guy balked at being complete or perfect and then went away sad.

There is nothing in Scripture which indicates Noah was sinless. Otherwise, Noah would not have found grace or favor with God.

It doesn't lend approval to sin. Through the law is the knowledge of sin. Sin is always sin.

Christ was freely given for our sins. Christ wasn't given for our sins based on a condition which we must first meet.

There is no Christian repentance apart from faith in Christ, a gift from God. The risen Lord in Luke 24:44ff told the guys to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name. The law is already written in men's hearts, and some also have the written law, so they already know sin is wrong. The repentance, the change of mind, which the disciples were speaking of is towards Christ in whom alone is the forgiveness of sins.

An iidol worshippers who sacrificed a hundred people to his idol at the last festival may repent and resolve to sacrifice ten people or a thousand people at the next festival, but in neither instance is it Christian repentance.

In the same way, the guy who believes that he'll have another beer but then repents, has a change of mind, and passes on another round or decides to have ten more beers, is not repenting in a Christian sense.

It is only your imagination that is amazing you since seeking sinlessness in this life is the goal, but it is only reached in this life in Christ through faith. It isn't reached, and can't be reached, in this life apart from faith in Christ. That is Paul's point about baptism into Christ.

Continuing on in Romans six from verse three.

“3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life....” (Rom 6:3-4..., KJVA)

Read Romans seven and eight in light of Romans 6.
I can win this debate with one scripture citation. The proof of my position that saved Christians are not to sin--at all--is clearly explained in Colossians 3:
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life. 8 But now you must get rid of all such things: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive language from your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices 10 and have clothed yourselves with the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator.
I don't want to face God's wrath due to any disobedience on my part so I have gotten rid of all sin which he commands us all to do. You should follow suit.

Checkmate!
 
I can win this debate with one scripture citation. The proof of my position that saved Christians are not to sin--at all--is clearly explained in Colossians 3:

I don't want to face God's wrath due to any disobedience on my part so I have gotten rid of all sin which he commands us all to do. You should follow suit.

Checkmate!
It isn't up to me to dispose of sin, I gave that over to God for Him to deal with. For if one tries to follow the law to be with0out sin you will fail miserably, guilty of one you are guilty of all.

1 John 3 reads He takes away the sins of this world, for if one is in Him as Jesus was in Him, not just try to be but God actually manifest in you as He was manifest in Jesus in Matt 3:16, and not just cover them over but took mine away Himself by having His same mind, Spirit.

Born again. If one is born of God it is impossible to be in sin 1 John 3:9. cannot sin because I am born of God no different from Jesus being born of God in Matt 3:16. He coined the phrase as born again. Renewing the mind. One cant know what sin is nor who God is without that same enlightenment.

One here called Gods enlightenment as a gnostic tree of knpowledge that Jesus ate of LOL.
 
The right understanding from Scripture is that the ungodly have not known the way of peace. (Rom 3:17)
Bingo. "I did not come to abolish the law or the prophets, but to fulfill." Matt 5:17
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you" ...“Receive the Holy Spirit...." John 20:19-23
Life Through the Spirit
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8
One cant know what sin is nor who God is without that same enlightenment.

One here called Gods enlightenment as a gnostic tree of knpowledge that Jesus ate of LOL.
The only one here that claims to have been illuminated at the tree of knowledge and has endorsed gnosticism with flying colors is the same individual who denies the faith and claims that his jesus is a sinful man just like him.
 
I can win this debate with one scripture citation. The proof of my position that saved Christians are not to sin--at all--is clearly explained in Colossians 3:

I don't want to face God's wrath due to any disobedience on my part so I have gotten rid of all sin which he commands us all to do. You should follow suit.

Checkmate!

I can win this debate with one scripture citation. The proof of my position that saved Christians are not to sin--at all--is clearly explained in Colossians 3:
The disagreement isn't over whether a Christian should not sin. We both agree on that. The disagreement is over whether Christians still sin in this life.

To beat the dead horse one more time, the passage you cited does not say that Christians don't sin. To the contrary, Paul is writing to Christians. “Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,” (Col 1:4, KJVA)

In the passage you cited there is huge therefore upon which he is exhorting the Christians to mortify their members, to not sin. That therefore is the person and work of Christ for them. “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.” (Col 3:3, KJVA)
I don't want to face God's wrath due to any disobedience on my part so I have gotten rid of all sin which he commands us all to do. You should follow suit.
Doing what is right and not sinning flows from the person and work of Christ for us, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. I am sure that you don't want to face the wrath of God for despising and denying the person and work of the Son for all men, that necessarily includes you.
Checkmate!
Chess used to be a favorite form of mental relaxation, but I gave it up for Gnome Sudoku.
 
I can win this debate with one scripture citation. The proof of my position that saved Christians are not to sin--at all--is clearly explained in Colossians 3:
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever in you is earthly: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed (which is idolatry). 6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming on those who are disobedient. 7 These are the ways you also once followed, when you were living that life.
8 But now you must get rid of all such things: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive language from your mouth.
Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. ...
9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have stripped off the old self with its practices 10 and have clothed yourselves with the new self,​
Now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. 1 Peter 2
which is being renewed in knowledge according to the image of its creator.​
11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ Jesus is all and in all. Col 3:11
I don't want to face God's wrath due to any disobedience on my part so I have gotten rid of all sin which he commands us all to do. You should follow suit.
Checkmate!
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. But those who do not obey the Son will never have eternal life. For God’s wrath remains on them.
John 3:36
 
The only one here that claims to have been illuminated at the tree of knowledge and has endorsed gnosticism with flying colors is the same individual who denies the faith and claims that his jesus is a sinful man just like him.
Actually that is your beliefs. The reality is I have receieved from God the very same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 where our sin was taken away and we became like God to know this difference.

All that you see of Gods enlightenment is a tree just as you keep stating to be born again, having Gods same knowledge, came from a tree LOL. You are so confuse, you dont even know what you believe for you dont have a clue of His Spirit who does enlighten, you think His Spirit in man is a tree rofl. Man you need to meet the Christ to be anointing of God that you claim He is tree instead.

May I ask why you think Gods knowledge to have His mind, the mind of Christ, born again of God, is a tree? Who taught you that Gen 3?

You dont have a clue that Gods knowledge comes by His Spirit and doesnt come from a tree as you think. It is so obvious that all you can see of Gods knowledge is eating an apple from a fruit tree, LOL.
 
The disagreement isn't over whether a Christian should not sin. We both agree on that. The disagreement is over whether Christians still sin in this life.
I haven't argued that "Christians" cannot sin. I've argued that a truly saved person cannot and does not sin in obedience to God and Christ. The scriptures I've posted clearly prove that position to be true.
To beat the dead horse one more time, the passage you cited does not say that Christians don't sin.
Which passage are you referring to? 1 John 3:9 says that those "born of God" (i.e., those who are saved) do not sin.
To the contrary, Paul is writing to Christians. “Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,” (Col 1:4, KJVA)
He wasn't writing only to those who are saved but regarding the unsaved too, of course. Paul wrote his epistles not only to discuss doctrine among the saved but to encourage sinners to repent and be saved. You conflate the two groups. See Romans 10:
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify that they have a zeal for God, but it is not based on knowledge. 3 Not knowing the righteousness of God and seeking to establish their own, they have not submitted to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Paul here is writing to the saved about those who are not saved. Note that they are not the same group, of course. So if you conclude that those who "have not submitted to God's righteousness" are among the saved, then you fallaciously combine the two groups into one. You've been doing so all along.
In the passage you cited there is huge therefore upon which he is exhorting the Christians to mortify their members, to not sin.
Again, you continue to conflate the saved and the unsaved. "Christians" as you use the word here are the saved who "mortify" the unsaved not to sin. The two groups are separated by the lack of sin and the presence of sin, respectively.
Doing what is right and not sinning flows from the person and work of Christ for us, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.
Christ only takes away the sin of those who are saved. The unsaved maintain their sin.
I am sure that you don't want to face the wrath of God for despising and denying the person and work of the Son for all men, that necessarily includes you.
Of course I don't despise Christ. If I did despise Him, then I would disregard his many commandments not o sin.
Chess used to be a favorite form of mental relaxation, but I gave it up for Gnome Sudoku.
Whatever--you've been checkmated. Proved wrong about the saved sinning. Continuing in that error will have eternal consequences for anybody who believes it and practices it.
 
The Redeemer shall come to Zion, and to them that turn from iniquity.
I've argued that a truly saved person cannot and does not sin in obedience to God and Christ. The scriptures I've posted clearly prove that position to be true.
God, the Lord knows! And let Israel know! If this has been in disobedience or transgression to the Lord Christ Jesus they will not be spared. Josh 22:22

God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who acknowledges the name of the Lord must turn from iniquity." 2 Tim 2:19
 
God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Everyone who acknowledges the name of the Lord must turn from iniquity." 2 Tim 2:19
BJ Bear will interpret that as meaning: "Everyone who acknowledges the name of the Lord must turn from iniquity, but they can always turn back to it! Jesus knows his followers sin, and that iniquity they work is OK with him. Christ will tell all such sinners: 'Come with me, you who work iniquity. I know you well."
 
BJ Bear will interpret that as meaning: "Everyone who acknowledges the name of the Lord must turn from iniquity, but they can always turn back to it! Jesus knows his followers sin, and that iniquity they work is OK with him. Christ will tell all such sinners: 'Come with me, you who work iniquity. I know you well."
Therefore the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish.
Woe to those who go to great depths to hide their plans from the Lord,
who do their work in darkness and think, “Who sees us? Who will know?” Isaiah 29:14-15

They ·make plans · of their own; They make · agreements but not by my Spirit; Isaiah 30:1

If they had stood in My council, Then they would have caused My people to hear My words, Then they would have turned [and believed] Jer 23:22

“You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My Servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He.
And besides Me there is no Savior. Isa 43:10-11

— Israel’s King and Redeemer
"I am the First and I am the Last." Isa 44:6

The First and the Last, who died and came to life again. Rev 2:8

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16
 
I haven't argued that "Christians" cannot sin. I've argued that a truly saved person cannot and does not sin in obedience to God and Christ. The scriptures I've posted clearly prove that position to be true.
SO true!
Which passage are you referring to? 1 John 3:9 says that those "born of God" (i.e., those who are saved) do not sin.
To him that is gnosticism for I have quoted to him 1 John 3:9 hundreds of times, and V 8 who clearly tells who one is of as a sinner.
He wasn't writing only to those who are saved but regarding the unsaved too, of course.
Those who are saved by received His mind, Spirit as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 no longer need to learn from God for God Himself is our very thoughts of mind. Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. That passage might as well not be in there for one such as he.
Paul wrote his epistles not only to discuss doctrine among the saved but to encourage sinners to repent and be saved. You conflate the two groups. See Romans 10:\
But Paul was the sinner, said he was, struggled with sin, did the things he didn't want to do. Ye people see him as a saint because they can relate to his sin and cant relate to the perfections of God be their own mind.

Paul here is writing to the saved about those who are not saved. Note that they are not the same group, of course. So if you conclude that those who "have not submitted to God's righteousness" are among the saved, then you fallaciously combine the two groups into one. You've been doing so all along.
Gods salvation is from sin. People should questions Paul authenticity as a sinner instead, and question why in Christ there is no sin!
Again, you continue to conflate the saved and the unsaved. "Christians" as you use the word here are the saved who "mortify" the unsaved not to sin. The two groups are separated by the lack of sin and the presence of sin, respectively.
One has to know what Gods salvation is to be like Him and have His same mind before they can know what it is for sure.
Christ only takes away the sin of those who are saved. The unsaved maintain their sin.
Yes and Paul remind in sin if one will examine what he really says about his wicked ways and using trickery, witchcraft to get these to follow him in his ways instead of follow Jesus and without sin in his ways.
Of course I don't despise Christ. If I did despise Him, then I would disregard his many commandments not o sin.
He see the ways of Christ as gnostic teachings.
Whatever--you've been checkmated. Proved wrong about the saved sinning. Continuing in that error will have eternal consequences for anybody who believes it and practices it.
These has learn that from Paul not Jesus.
 
Unknown Soldier said:
Which passage are you referring to? 1 John 3:9 says that those "born of God" (i.e., those who are saved) do not sin.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1
To him that is gnosticism for I have quoted to him 1 John 3:9 hundreds of times,...
Again, renewal is through Jesus Christ; Through Him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, 1 Peter 1:21
Gods salvation is from sin.
Jesus is“‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:11-12
He see the ways of Christ as gnostic teachings. These has learn that from Paul not Jesus.
If you didn't have a depraved gnostic mind, you would come to the knowledge of the truth that all of God's people are reconciled to God through the Son of God.
Coming to Him, the living Stone—rejected by gnostics but chosen by God,...
They stumble because they disobey the gospel of Jesus Christ;
But you are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s chosen people, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. 1 Peter 1
 
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