Women Are Not To Teach From The Pulpit or In Church Media.

I don't have to try anything, as you haven't proved that ἐπίσκοπος could be held by a woman, or was ever held by a woman except in the heretical churches, e.g. of the Montanists and the Marcionites etc. What I will say to you, however, is unambiguous and beyond controversy:

Isa 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths."

Here Isaiah is talking about the church. Who are children?

Heb 5:12 2For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."

What is the very first principle of the oracles of God? The cursing of Satan: Gen 3:14-15
What is the second principle of the oracles of God? Gen 3:16 "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

____________________

So, a church that is ruled by woman, is also ruled by children. Such a church will be oppressed by all kinds of strange teaching, and will cause people to "err" and will "destroy the way of thy paths."
what a CHILSISH response........

:ninja:
 
Alexander do not interfere I handle this doubter of the word the bible that does say women preach and verses are there and women can't be pastors but women can preach from the pulpit ! But Genez says not ! real men won't let women because women dominate and thier cowards he is A coward for saying that shameful thing to say. Real men want women to push and aren't shame if called girly or feminine if women preach women can't be pastors !

Genez stand down from your machist postion and check your privileges because you aint' got no right to say what women can't do and can do ! It shown there were women helping the gospel and we do not know in precise all the details but did thier part preaching helping the gospel is help preaching you got that ! I'm really getting irritated but not tired of all you Cjab trying to say women can't ! and Genez thinking God is man when he is A consuming fire and he uses femine thinsg like mother bear, mother eagles, a Hen and women giving birth to explain aprts of God's nature !

He came A man to save us but we know he is among us and God comes to earth in many forms in secret ! And he chooses to be A woman or man and he chosed A bear, fire, man, and women to represent his presence in this world for A secret but know this that women have the other part to push for him and we must help them preaching the word everywhere !

What was forbidden was a woman having *authority* over a man. Not forbidden to teach.


I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.." 1 Timothy 2:12

A good pastor-teacher of Scripture will by default be having authority over his hearers. That is if he is truly teaching sound doctrine.
Weak teachers are too easily found today. That is possibly why some women can not see what difference it makes. In that case
it probably would make no difference.

Now, if a woman wants to teach only women, or teach children? .... the command does not forbid that.
 
Your definition of faith requires the subjugation of women? I rather not have it then.
The divine order of creation is integral to faith. If you do not recognize this order, then you are substituting yourself in place of the divine.
 
The divine order of creation is integral to faith. If you do not recognize this order, then you are substituting yourself in place of the divine.
Nope. "Gen 1: ...26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Only in the redaction of this story in Genesis 2 is a hierarchy established. It does not exist here and Paul confirms it with his quote that there is in Christ neither male or female.
 
Nope. "Gen 1: ...26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Only in the redaction of this story in Genesis 2 is a hierarchy established. It does not exist here and Paul confirms it with his quote that there is in Christ neither male or female.
Except that Paul did assert being a Roman citizen before Festus (Acts 25), and laid claim to his rights and obligations deriving thereof. So when Paul says "neither Jew nor Greek" he didn't mean, "neither Jew nor Greek" in the world, but "neither Jew nor Greek" in the kingdom of heaven.

So in the world, there remains male and female etc. Now the kingdom of heaven is not of this world; but the mistake that many make is to assume either (1) that the kingdom of heaven is of this world (it isn't), or (2) that the church is not of this world (it is - the visible church is very much of this world).

The church therefore remains subject to the rules and law of the world, as Paul made clear. Per Rom 3:31, "we uphold the law" which includes Gen 3:14-16. Those who reject the law are known as "antinominians" - a heresy particularly prevalent amongst Protestants.
 
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It is normative for legitimate Christians. The scriptures deny what you say.


There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.

The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.

There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.

A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.

Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.

Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.

In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.

The fact that Eve was deceived is also given in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.
I agree with your writing. But what happens if men are not willing to set the example of spiritual leadership?
 
I've given much thought about this and I find it's a subject many can gravitate towards a secular passion of everyone should have equal rights and equal considerations about everything. I think people need to step back and put their minds on exactly why he said woman shouldn't be the teachers or Pastors over men.

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman who was deceived and fell into transgression. 1 Tim 2:13

So let's be sincere in how we look upon these words. It cannot be a mere culture thing that applies only to a certain culture of the day. Can't be for he takes the reason way back to the beginning Genesis 3 and the events that took place there.
So what's he say....Adam was formed first. Meaning what? Has to mean he was brought forth for leadership in a more stronger type of way and he had unique characteristics about him, as the world might say how he was wired to walk in this capacity.
The female has strengths too and we could say is stronger than the male BUT in a different capacity. We'll talk about that in a moment but the strength of the female IS NOT to be considered inferirior. Just different. Paul points out another reason....Adam was NOT deceived but the woman was. Say what one will but that's the reason folks. We can go around the wagons and speculate about a thousand and one different things but ultimately we must anchor ourselves down with the scripture and not be afraid to go there.

Let's put it this way. Man was made to be the standup guy. He's wired as the saying goes to more adequately fulfill the role of making a stand of things. The female is not. That's not to say she can't do the same as the male, stand fast in the liberty in which Christ has set her free....but that's a different kind of standing. And with the leadership capacity the male will be held even more accountable for not fulfilling his role. We can even talk about how natural culture KNOW certain things. Even natural culture KNOWS males have more of a standup way about them something you need when one is compelled to have to bring forth discipline within a church body. (Not as a tyrant but in love the way a spiritual leaders are to do)


The natural world even knows this. All might recall a well known saying that even in this world natural mothers would tell their children about discipline....WAIT UNTILL YOUR FATHER GETS HOME! So why would females generally say this? Because they KNEW the Father had the right gifting to address order within a family. There's just something about a Father....which is different. Now observe this. Eph 6:4 states something interesting.

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.Eph 6:4

So hold it now. Why doesn't it say Fathers and Mothers? Why just Fathers? The male is the more aggressive and the one so designed to establish the greatest order BUT he needs to be balanced and show restraint in how he does. The male is more prone than the female to falter this way. So the man has his strength but the female has hers. She has more of the strength of being the compassion one the one with a more soft gentle disposition which is absolutely needed to bring balance. This is not an inferior strength....its just different.

I've seen something else in the natural things we see in this world. I'm guessing you have too. Many have been mystified just why a female would want to date or marry a very aggressive unkind male. Observers scratch their heads and ask why? Doesn't she know it's just a matter of time before he might bring her abuse? It's called in the world loving a bad boy. Another male may be sweet and soft but she goes for the jerk. (or how the world would call him) So what's going on in her mind. Is it true she really wants to be abused? NO. What it is she knows by intuition she wants and needs someone who'll not be a wimp and take on a leadership role. That therefore to her becomes the appealing thing that she might not even be able to put into words of why she goes for the bad guy.

Men need to take on a leadership role! That's their primary gifting although temperance, self control and and restraint need to be a part of it. The bad boy doesn't have that. A gathering of believers (a church) is likewise a family.....it must have the one's most gifted as ones who bring order at the helm. Now I know some females like to resist this. They get caught up in what they call, THEIR CALLING. Their calling though is laid out in scripture and it's not an inferior calling but just different. 1 Tim 2:15 states,


Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. 1 Tim 2:15

When it says she will be saved it can mean that in a sense for it talks about faith, love and holiness, self control, but I think it's really saying her greatest fulfillment will be in keeping the home. There's no way it's saying she has to have children in order to be saved. We're talking about an inner sense of fulfillment where her inner spirit will know she's fulfilled her destiny.
 
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