The Seventy Weeks of Daniel

Arkycharlie

Super Member
Question: Did the earthly ministry of Jesus, beginning at His baptism, fulfill the first half of Daniel's 70 Weeks, leaving only the last half to be fulfilled in the future? My answer is without a doubt yes!
 
NO, the 7 year treaty, as described in Daniel 9:27, must be continuous.
The whole seven years will be the final time before Jesus Returns. It will be divided into 2 halves; the first half will be peaceful as the treaty holds, but then the Anti-Christ will break it by attacking and conquering the holy peoples. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8
 
I've been aware that this is traditional dispensational eschatology for over 40 years. And I accepted it for probably the first 15 years as a born again Christian since 1978. You are merely parroting the views of others and I suspect have no clue as to how and why this view became popular.
Unlike most folks around here, I interpret Scripture literally. The passage below refutes your interpretation because there is a long history of efforts to correctly interpret the 70 Weeks that greatly influenced your posted view.

Daniel 12:4-10:
4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book UNTIL THE END OF TIMEmany will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”

5 Then I, Daniel, looked and behold, two others were standing, one on this bank of the river and the other on that bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be until the end of these wonders?”
7 I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.
8 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up UNTIL THE END TIME.
10 Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.

And this view was allowed to become entrenched in dispensational eschatology for the very purpose of keeping the true meaning “sealed and concealed” until the time of the end, which we now find ourselves in.

Are you aware of Jerome’s influence in this regard. In a sense, he became the “father” of this view some 1600 years ago when he published his “Commentary on Daniel” that can be found here: https://www.tertullian.org/fathers/jerome_daniel_02_text.htm

And I suspect that you’re completely unaware of a direct quote from Daniel 9:26 in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke that directly contradict the traditional view that you posted. I could go on but I don’t expect that there’s anything that I could say that would change the minds of all the “experts” in this forum.
 
I read, understand and believe what the Bible plainly states.
I have never been brainwashed by a Bible College and the Methodist Church that my parents brought me up in, never mentioned Bible Prophecy at all. I also reject all the Commentaries, Jerome's included.
So my views on the end time events yet to happen, are what is clearly Written.

Jesus did NOT fulfil the first half of the Seventieth Week at His first Advent. There is no evidence that He did. He was Crucified at the exact end of the 69th week.
 
You're hopelessly confused and a waste of time. I didn't refer to Jerome's commentary for interpretation of Daniel but as a significant document in the history of various interpretations of Daniel.

Below is a table of assorted translations of Daniel 9:26. Can you explain the significant variations? Of course not. You don't have the faintest clue and I expect that you will ignore it due to your ignorance. If you were interested, I would be glad to explain the primary source of the differences but that would entail your admitting that you don't know the reason and that will never happen due to entirely unwarranted pride. Hint: The word translated "people" (עַם) in most Bibles can also mean "with" depending upon how it's vocalized. Every version of the LXX correctly translates it as "with". Look at Jerome's translation. He was the first known commentator to ignore the LXX translation but he translated it as "a people with", and it can't mean both. But this is all a waste of time because you consider yourself to be the expert here and I'm just a Biblical moron. You sir are in for a rude awakening!

Table of English Translations of Daniel 9:26
From the Most Ancient to Examples From the Present Day



Old Greek (Septuagint)
Circa 150 B.C.


Theodotion
Circa 200 A.D.


Peshitta
Aramaic OT
Circa 200 A.D.


Jerome
Circa 407 A.D.


Young's Literal
Translation

Circa 1862


Bible in Basic English (BBE)
1949


God's Word
Translation
1995
Modern English
Translation of The Jewish Tanakh

Modern English
New King James
26 And after seven and seventy and sixty two weeks, an anointing will be removed and will not be. And a king of nations will demolish the city and the sanctuary along with the anointed one, and his consummation will come with wrath even until the time of consummation. He will be attacked through war.

26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointing will be destroyed, and there is no judgment in it. And it will destroy the city and the sanctuary along with the leader who is to come. And they will be cut off by a flood, and there will be annihilations to the finish of a shortened war.




26 After sixty-two times seven weeks, Messiah shall be slain, and the city shall be without a ruler; and the holy city shall be destroyed together with the coming king; and the end thereof shall be a mass exile, and at the end of the war, desolations are determined




26 And after sixty-two weeks Christ shall be slain, and the people that shall deny Him shall not be His. And a people, with their leader that shall come, shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. And the end thereof shall be devastation, and after the end of the war there shall be the appointed desolation

26 And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.




26 And at the end of the times, even after the sixty-two weeks, one on whom the holy oil has been put will be cut off and have no ...; and the town and the holy place will be made waste together with a prince; and the end will come with an overflowing of waters, and even to the end there will be war; the making waste which has been fixed.

26 But after the sixty-two sets of seven time periods, the Anointed One will be cut off and have nothing. The city and the holy place will be destroyed with the prince who is to come. His end will come with a flood until the end of the destructive war that has been determined.


26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall an anointed one be cut off, and be no more; and the people of a prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; but his end shall be with a flood; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


26 And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
 
Question: Did the earthly ministry of Jesus, beginning at His baptism, fulfill the first half of Daniel's 70 Weeks, leaving only the last half to be fulfilled in the future?

Did you mean to say “Daniel’s 70 Weeks”?

Or did you mean “Daniel’s 70th Week”?
 
Greetings Arkycharlie and Keraz,
Question: Did the earthly ministry of Jesus, beginning at His baptism, fulfill the first half of Daniel's 70 Weeks, leaving only the last half to be fulfilled in the future? My answer is without a doubt yes!
NO, the 7 year treaty, as described in Daniel 9:27, must be continuous.
The whole seven years will be the final time before Jesus Returns. It will be divided into 2 halves; the first half will be peaceful as the treaty holds, but then the Anti-Christ will break it by attacking and conquering the holy peoples. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8
I find no warrant to allow the 70 Week Prophecy to be split as I find no other time period being split. To bring us near to the return of Christ we have been given the 2300 days and I believe a major fulfillment of this is from BC 334-333 to AD 1967. I have a different perspective on the events surrounding the return of Christ and the Antichrist. I identify the Papacy as the Antichrist, starting with an explanation of Daniel 7. Many will oppose Christ when he returns and some of these will proclaim that Jesus is the Antichrist, and I assume some of these opponents will be some dispensationalists who hold the view that the Antichrist will establish himself in Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Arkycharlie and Keraz,

I identify the Papacy as the Antichrist, starting with an explanation of Daniel 7.

Kind regards
Trevor
I'd like to see support for that in Scripture. The OT tells us where the AC will arise and it most certainly is not in Europe!
 
Greetings again Arkycharlie,
I'd like to see support for that in Scripture. The OT tells us where the AC will arise and it most certainly is not in Europe!
The Antichrist is the Papal system. It arose out of one of the ten subdivisions of the Roman Empire in Europe, it gained three of the ten portions sometimes called the Papal States which she lost in AD 1870, 1260 years after AD 610 the Decree of Phocas, she spoke great things against the Most High and His Faith and Truth, claiming to be Christ's representative on earth, the Vicar of Christ, and claiming to be "father" (the Pope), she persecuted the faithful during these 1260 years, and the Papacy will oppose Christ when he returns.
Daniel 7:8,20-26 (KJV):8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.


Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again Arkycharlie,

The Antichrist is the Papal system. It arose out of one of the ten subdivisions of the Roman Empire in Europe, it gained three of the ten portions sometimes called the Papal States which she lost in AD 1870, 1260 years after AD 610 the Decree of Phocas, she spoke great things against the Most High and His Faith and Truth, claiming to be Christ's representative on earth, the Vicar of Christ, and claiming to be "father" (the Pope), she persecuted the faithful during these 1260 years, and the Papacy will oppose Christ when he returns.
Daniel 7:8,20-26 (KJV):8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. 23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.


Kind regards
Trevor
Good look with that theory.
 
I read, understand and believe what the Bible plainly states.
I have never been brainwashed by a Bible College and the Methodist Church that my parents brought me up in, never mentioned Bible Prophecy at all. I also reject all the Commentaries, Jerome's included.
So my views on the end time events yet to happen, are what is clearly Written.

Jesus did NOT fulfil the first half of the Seventieth Week at His first Advent. There is no evidence that He did. He was Crucified at the exact end of the 69th week.
I don't suppose that you have ever understood what was suppose to take place in the 70 weeks but Daniel tells us in verse 24, and none of it has anything whatsoever to do with the antichrist and everything to do with the real Christ Jesus and especially "reconciliation for iniquity".

Did you get that, Daniel very clearly tells us that within the 70 weeks, "reconciliation for iniquity would be made and we know that the only way this could happen is through the shed blood and death of Jesus and yet you quoted it yourself that it would happen after and the sixty nine weeks.

So then in case you didn't get it yet, if it happened after the 69 weeks and there is a gap between the 69 and last week, that would mean that the reconciliation for iniquity could not have been made through Messiah being cut off in death within the 70 weeks but rather in the gap and Daniel 9:24 very clearly reveals that it would happen within the 70 weeks.

This in and off itself alone, proves that the gap theory is wrong, for reconciliation for iniquity could only have been made by Christ when he was cut off in his death and your quote above is correct, that Messiah was cut off after the 69 weeks and therefore your gap theory doesn't work.
 
NO, the 7 year treaty, as described in Daniel 9:27, must be continuous.
The whole seven years will be the final time before Jesus Returns. It will be divided into 2 halves; the first half will be peaceful as the treaty holds, but then the Anti-Christ will break it by attacking and conquering the holy peoples. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8
By the way, where did you get this idea of a 7 year treaty? That isn't at all what Daniel 9:27 is speaking of but rather a confirming of the covenant and by the way, a confirming of the covenant isn't the same thing as only making the covenant but it means to make the covenant strong to the many.

This is exactly what Jesus did starting at the first 3 1/2 years when he began his ministry at his baptism and up until his death (and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifices and offerings to be put to rest (shabboth).

Then starting at the resurrection began the last half or 3 1/2 years of the strengthening of the covenant and with Jesus sending the Holy Spirit and establishing the church in the truth through the Spirit and which ended with Paul's conversion.

It works out to 7 years.

The rest of what is mentioned by Daniel in the last half of verses 26 and 27 is another prophecy of what would happen unto those who rejected the covenant in Christ's blood, first unto the Jews of that generation as per the last half of Daniel 26 and then what would happen to both Jew and Gentile who reject the covenant at the end of this age and as per the last half of verse 27.


You might find this to be odd, but actually there are many instances where different prophesies are mixed together to seem like they will happen at the same time, for that is just the nature of prophecy.


A good example of this is in the prophesies about Jesus' coming, for all that he would do at his coming appears in the OT to be in one coming or advent but as you are well aware of I am sure, this is not how God has determined for it to be done

in other words, not everything that is stated in verses 26 and 27 was to be fulfilled within that last 7 years but the last half of each passages was another prophecy of what would happen to those who rejected the covenant and the confirmation of the covenant.
 
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NO, the 7 year treaty, as described in Daniel 9:27, must be continuous.
The whole seven years will be the final time before Jesus Returns. It will be divided into 2 halves; the first half will be peaceful as the treaty holds, but then the Anti-Christ will break it by attacking and conquering the holy peoples. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8
Sorry but there is no way that a covenant or treaty could be confirmed (made strong or made to prevail) for 7 full years and at the same time be broken in the middle and you are getting this nonsense from the false teachers you are listening to, for that is not what Daniel is revealing here.

By the way, Revelation 13:5-8 clearly reveals that the beast will only have 42 months and which equal's only 1/2 of 7 years and it never says he has a full seven year reign.


Furthermore unconverted Jews could never be called "God's Holy People" but only believers could and if you read Revelation 12:17, it is made clear unto John for us that the war will be against those who keep the commandments of God and hold to their testimony of Jesus Christ and which means it will be True Christians that the beast will make war with and not unconverted Jews like you probably believe.
 
I don't suppose that you have ever understood
With comments like that, discussion with you is finished.
Good luck with your studies and remember to stand firm in your faith when the Lord strikes the earth with His fiery wrath.

Take a look at- logostelos.info for many articles that explain the Prophetic Word.
 
With comments like that, discussion with you is finished.
Good luck with your studies and remember to stand firm in your faith when the Lord strikes the earth with His fiery wrath.

Take a look at- logostelos.info for many articles that explain the Prophetic Word.
Of course it is and the real reason why, is because you now know that there are big problems with your theory about the 70 7's prophecy of Daniel 9 and the biggest is that if there was a gap in between the 69th and 70th week like you claim, then the work of the Messiah would all be outside of the 70 weeks instead of in the 70 weeks like verse 24 very clearly shows that it would be.

Sorry but I am not here to make friends but rather to expose the many contradictions and false doctrines that the majority have in their theologies.

For you even quoted it yourself that after the 69 weeks Messiah would be cut off, didn't you and after the 69 weeks means after it right?

Therefore, whereas Daniel 9:24 tells us that reconciliation for iniquity would be made within the 70 weeks of years, your gap theory contradicts this verse 24 big time, for you have that reconciliation happening in the gap and not within the 70 weeks at all and that is what proves your doctrine as false also.

By the way, I don't believe in luck and neither do I labor myself with my own intellect to try to figure out the word of God like most do, but rather what I do, is to seek spiritual ears from God so I can hear what what God through his Spirit is saying, you know, just like is repeated over and over again in Revelation?


Also, I don't need another man's opinion on these things for I got that for better than thirty years of my converted to Christ life and found this to be a worthless waste of time, especially when I have the finished scriptures and the Holy Spirit that inspired them.
 
The Antichrist is the Papal system. It arose out of one of the ten subdivisions of the Roman Empire in Europe, it gained three of the ten portions sometimes called the Papal States which she lost in AD 1870, 1260 years after AD 610 the Decree of Phocas, she spoke great things against the Most High and His Faith and Truth, claiming to be Christ's representative on earth, the Vicar of Christ, and claiming to be "father" (the Pope), she persecuted the faithful during these 1260 years, and the Papacy will oppose Christ when he returns.
Good look with that theory.

I am curious...

Are you aware that a majority of Protestants believed that theory before World War II?

I am not asking if you agree with the theory, but rather are you aware of the fact that theory was held my a majority of Protestants before WW2.
 
Greetings Yahchristian,
I am curious...
Are you aware that a majority of Protestants believed that theory before World War II?
I am not asking if you agree with the theory, but rather are you aware of the fact that theory was held my a majority of Protestants before WW2.
No I was not aware of this. and do not know how where you obtained this information and whether it is correct. Are you simply saying that there has been a gradual drift away from this view and this period marks approximately this shift, or are you saying that WWII was instrumental in this change, and what do you assess is the reason for this effect from WWII?

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Yahchristian,

No I was not aware of this. and do not know how where you obtained this information and whether it is correct. Are you simply saying that there has been a gradual drift away from this view and this period marks approximately this shift, or are you saying that WWII was instrumental in this change, and what do you assess is the reason for this effect from WWII?

Kind regards
Trevor
I would say that whatever it was, it probably had to do with the fact that many believed that Hitler was the man of sin because of the false doctrine that the beast would be waging war against ethnic non repentant Israel of the flesh and like they do today also.

However Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 13:5-8 very clearly reveal that the war of the beast will not be against unconverted Israel of the flesh but rather the Christians, for he very clearly tells us that they are they who keep the commandments of God and hold to their testimony of Jesus Christ and that they are God's Holy People and therefore it should be obvious that it would be against Christians. .
 
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