Thoughts on how eschatology affects soteriology.

squirrelyguy

Well-known member
I've been giving more thought lately to this question: why don't we Christians earnestly, sincerely pray every day that Christ would come back today? They did in the early church. Why don't we?

As for myself, I think I can probably speak for everyone else when I say that, in the back of my mind, there is the thought that if I pray for Christ to return today and He does, it will end all hope of salvation for most of those on earth right now including many people that I love.

Is this true of you as well? Do you hesitate to pray for Christ's immediate return because you are afraid it would end any hope of salvation for your loved ones?

What does this say about our theological assumptions regarding the return of Christ?

As you think on that, let me offer a framework that I've worked out which, if true, would offer a more encouraging view of Christ's return, and which would possibly even incentivize praying for His immediate return.

1. Let's suppose that almost* no one's eternal destiny is settled prior to the final judgment, which (per Revelation 20) happens after Christ has returned to earth for a thousand years.

2. Let's also suppose that part of the purpose of the millennial reign is to give everyone who has ever lived (or at least, many who have ever lived) and who did not repent during their initial lifetime a chance to repent and get right with God prior to the final judgment.

3. The first two points, if true, would paint a picture of an eschaton in which conditions on earth are more favorable than they have ever been for people to accept Christ and to be forgiven. In fact, it may be the overall purpose of the eschaton to offer a final chance for humanity to resolve themselves for or against the Lord's Christ.

Obviously there would be a lot of Scripture that needed hashing out in order to make this scheme plausible; I've done some work on this and I think I have a somewhat biblical case for what I've just described, but it is beyond the scope of this post to go into that kind of detail here (I know I've made other posts on CARM about those passages before). But I'll stop here and give everyone a chance to think on my original question and offer thoughts.

* My reason for saying "almost" no one is that the book of Revelation speaks of at least two individuals being condemned to the lake of fire at the beginning of the eschaton, and they are still there when the rest of condemned humanity is cast therein at the beginning of the eternal state. Also I think there are verses that hint there will be other such individuals cast into the lake of fire at the beginning of the eschaton. I call this group the "pre-damned", because whereas most of humanity does not have its final destination determined until the end of the eschaton, these individuals are damned prior to the eschaton. This group includes (according to my thinking) all unregenerate kings and rulers who have ever lived and who have ruled wickedly. I have Scriptural support for this, but I don't want to overwhelm this post by going into too much depth here.
 
Good post SG.
My belief is that there will be no one who has not already accepted Jesus before He Returns, who will go with Him into the Millennium.
Also, as Satan will be unable to deceive anyone during the Millennium, that whole time will be a period of peace and prosperity and only after the thousand years is over, will be be again sin and rebellion. Which God will dispose of by fire from heaven.

We do pray; thy Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven..... But there is to be a tough time of testing and trials before Jesus Returns. 1 Peter 4:12
Do you know what it will be and what to do when it happens?
 
Let's suppose that almost* no one's eternal destiny is settled prior to the final judgment, which (per Revelation 20) happens after Christ has returned to earth for a thousand years.

Or, let’s suppose...

Revelation 17:8... The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 
Or, let’s suppose...

Revelation 17:8... The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
The book of life and its significance is not entirely clear from Revelation alone. Earlier in the book, Christ speaks of people whose names will not be blotted from the book of life (3:5). So is the mere fact that one's name is in the book of life mean that it can never be removed? And who is to say that one's name cannot be added? Does Paul's analogy of the olive tree in Romans 11 have any similarity to the book of life in Revelation? In that analogy, Paul speaks of people being cut off from the tree and grafted in again, which suggests both the possibility of being removed and added.
 
I've been giving more thought lately to this question: why don't we Christians earnestly, sincerely pray every day that Christ would come back today? They did in the early church. Why don't we?

As for myself, I think I can probably speak for everyone else when I say that, in the back of my mind, there is the thought that if I pray for Christ to return today and He does, it will end all hope of salvation for most of those on earth right now including many people that I love.

Is this true of you as well? Do you hesitate to pray for Christ's immediate return because you are afraid it would end any hope of salvation for your loved ones?

What does this say about our theological assumptions regarding the return of Christ?

As you think on that, let me offer a framework that I've worked out which, if true, would offer a more encouraging view of Christ's return, and which would possibly even incentivize praying for His immediate return.

1. Let's suppose that almost* no one's eternal destiny is settled prior to the final judgment, which (per Revelation 20) happens after Christ has returned to earth for a thousand years.
This depends on what you mean by "no one".
Hebrews 9:
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:


2. Let's also suppose that part of the purpose of the millennial reign is to give everyone who has ever lived (or at least, many who have ever lived) and who did not repent during their initial lifetime a chance to repent and get right with God prior to the final judgment.
This is a false assumption.

Revelation 20:
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

3. The first two points, if true, would paint a picture of an eschaton in which conditions on earth are more favorable than they have ever been for people to accept Christ and to be forgiven. In fact, it may be the overall purpose of the eschaton to offer a final chance for humanity to resolve themselves for or against the Lord's Christ.

Obviously there would be a lot of Scripture that needed hashing out in order to make this scheme plausible; I've done some work on this and I think I have a somewhat biblical case for what I've just described, but it is beyond the scope of this post to go into that kind of detail here (I know I've made other posts on CARM about those passages before). But I'll stop here and give everyone a chance to think on my original question and offer thoughts.
No. There would be a lot of Scripture that would need to rewritten.

* My reason for saying "almost" no one is that the book of Revelation speaks of at least two individuals being condemned to the lake of fire at the beginning of the eschaton, and they are still there when the rest of condemned humanity is cast therein at the beginning of the eternal state. Also I think there are verses that hint there will be other such individuals cast into the lake of fire at the beginning of the eschaton. I call this group the "pre-damned", because whereas most of humanity does not have its final destination determined until the end of the eschaton, these individuals are damned prior to the eschaton. This group includes (according to my thinking) all unregenerate kings and rulers who have ever lived and who have ruled wickedly. I have Scriptural support for this, but I don't want to overwhelm this post by going into too much depth here.
This is. IMHO, the only thing that you got right in this entire post. If you will notice, Hades and the lake of fire are two different places.

Revelation 20:
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
 
I've been giving more thought lately to this question: why don't we Christians earnestly, sincerely pray every day that Christ would come back today? They did in the early church. Why don't we?

As for myself, I think I can probably speak for everyone else when I say that, in the back of my mind, there is the thought that if I pray for Christ to return today and He does, it will end all hope of salvation for most of those on earth right now including many people that I love.
This suggests that some of those who could have been saved would be lost, yet scripture plainly points out that none will be lost.

Christ points out that it is not he who will judge, but instead his words will judge them. In other words, Christ imparts eternal life now, and those who are incapable of receiving it according to God's will have no chance. John 1:12,13; Romans 9:16 Judgement day will be quite anticlimactic by comparison. The problem is that people are oblivious to their fate. Although I think some do become aware. Jeremiah is a good example of someone who discovers the reality of the hopelessly wicked condition of the human heart. Anyone who is made aware of this revelation can do one of two things: repent in terror, or succumb.

When was the last time you heard of anyone saying anything more than a confession that they were less than perfect? This doesn't strike me as someone who has experienced a true revelation from God instigating or motivating them to repentance. As the bible says, "The whole world is deceived."
 
If you had to defend the "any moment" doctrine, how would you go about it?
How can Christ come in a time when we think not?
Most Christians today are not looking for the return of Christ, they are looking for the removal of the church.
I wouldn't want to be in their adidas.
 
If you had to defend the "any moment" doctrine, how would you go about it?
How can Christ come in a time when we think not?
Most Christians today are not looking for the return of Christ, they are looking for the removal of the church.
I wouldn't want to be in their adidas.
This is how..........
Matthew 24
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh

BECAUSE HE SAID SO...........
 
If you had to defend the "any moment" doctrine, how would you go about it?
How can Christ come in a time when we think not?
Most Christians today are not looking for the return of Christ, they are looking for the removal of the church.
I wouldn't want to be in their adidas.


It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, much later, at the Return of Jesus, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, Revelation 16:17-24...the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ and chains Satan up. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5

As for the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that is a Satanic deception and cannot happen. Humans never go to heaven; Jesus said so, John 3:13
Eventually God and therefore heaven; come to the earth, Revelation 21:1-7
 
As for the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, that is a Satanic deception and cannot happen. Humans never go to heaven; Jesus said so, John 3:13
Eventually God and therefore heaven; come to the earth, Revelation 21:1-7

What? This is not what Jesus was saying or meant in John 3:13 at all, but rather that at that time when he said it, no man had ever ascended into heaven (including Elijah and Enoch) because Jesus had not yet died for their sins and rose again so that they could go into heaven,

What he never said or meant by it, was that no man would ever ascend up into heaven like you are falsely claiming Jesus said and meant, when he didn't at all.


You need to look up the tenses used in John 3:13, for that is in the perfect tense and which refers to what was true in the past and continued to be true right up to the present, but it doesn't cover what will happen in the future, like how you are twisted Jesus' words to mean.

Very clearly 1 Thessalonians 4:`13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and also verses 51-58 reveal that believers will be taken up into heaven and will remain there until after this heaven and earth is purged by fire and the wicked are judged.

Therefore, only after the New Heaven and earth is established to replace the old one and only then, shall New Jerusalem (Christ and his saints) shall descend from God out of heaven where they had entered at the resurrection and rapture to the New Earth and that is what the Bible teaches.

The pre trib rapture is false, for in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58 Paul not only tells us what the rapture or "harpagmos" will take place in regard to the tribulation but also why and it will be because all of God's enemies associated with sin are put under the feet of Christ so that the last enemy of physical death for believers can be also.
 
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What? This is not what Jesus was saying or meant in John 3:13 at all,
What Jesus said; Jesus meant. Confirmed by:
Jesus said:

1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

2/ Revelation 2-3 Those who are victorious over Satan and who persevere until the end, will receive the crown of Life.
They are the people seen in Revelation 6:9-14. On earth, as proved by the first 3 verses of Revelation 7.

3/ John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

4/ John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

5/ John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.

6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls sleep under the Altar, if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11

That they can cry out at times, does not mean they are alive.

All scripture is as Written in the Revised English Bible.
 
What Jesus said; Jesus meant. Confirmed by:
Jesus said:

1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

No it doesn't apply forever, for Jesus said in John chapter 14 "in my Father's house (Heaven) there are many mansions, if it were no so I would have told you, behold I go and prepare a place for you that were I am there you may be also" (future tense).

And the tenses reveal that what he said was that up until that present time, no man had ever ascended up into heaven except he who came down from heaven, even the son of man" period and he never said that no man would ever ascend up unto heaven after him either.
2/ Revelation 2-3 Those who are victorious over Satan and who persevere until the end, will receive the crown of Life.
They are the people seen in Revelation 6:9-14. On earth, as proved by the first 3 verses of Revelation 7.

False, for what you are doing is projecting your own false ideas into the text, for this is speaking of those who will be on the earth during the tribulation and there will be no resurrection and rapture into heaven until after the tribulation when every enemy of God is put under the feet of Christ.
3/ John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

Yep and in this context he was speaking to the apostate Jews who had shut the doors of their own hearts against God forever, but he wasn't speaking to believers when he said this.
4/ John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4
Same as I just said in the previous, he was speaking to apostate Jews.
5/ John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.
Yes, Jesus doesn't want us to be removed from the earth until he we have finished our purpose in being here and that is to preach the gospel and teach all nations the truth of God in Christ until he returns to take us home.
6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls sleep under the Altar, if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11

Actually that statement again was for the present tense up until God's purpose for his church on this earth is over and he is ready to destroy this present heaven and earth to make way for the new one.

Again, Jesus said this "For many shall sit down with Abraham, Isaiah and Jacob in the Kingdom of heaven" but the children of the Kingdom will be cast out".

By the way, you seem to be ignorant of the fact that the kingdom of God and the Kingdom of heaven are one and the same thing and that is why in one gospel it is called Kingdom of God and in another the same is called Kingdom of heaven and depending upon who the gospel was predominately written to.

There will be no need for priests after this life, for all who are in God's Kingdom will be saved and made sinless forever then.

We reign therefore not over other people but over the influences and sins of this present world, flesh and Devil and this is all that passage is speaking of.
That they can cry out at times, does not mean they are alive.

What passage are you referring to here?
All scripture is as Written in the Revised English Bible.

And what is that suppose to mean, that the Revised English version is the only true translation?

If that is what you believe, then that is part of your problem, for none of them are 100% accurate with their translations and that includes The Revised English Bible also.

You are reading your own bias into these passages instead of seeking God to reveal unto you the truth about them like you should be doing.
 
And what is that suppose to mean, that the Revised English version is the only true translation?
The Revised English Bible, Oxford Press 1989, is a highly accurate Bible version and does not promote any Church doctrines or beliefs that are not clearly Written.
The 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is not clearly Written, it is a false belief.

However many people do hold fast to the rapture theory. All I can do is to suggest they be ready for it to not happen and for them to stand firm in their faith thru all that must happen before Jesus returns.
 
The Revised English Bible, Oxford Press 1989, is a highly accurate Bible version and does not promote any Church doctrines or beliefs that are not clearly Written.
The 'rapture to heaven' of the Church is not clearly Written, it is a false belief.

However many people do hold fast to the rapture theory. All I can do is to suggest they be ready for it to not happen and for them to stand firm in their faith thru all that must happen before Jesus returns.
Again, Jesus himself said this, in John 14:1-5

14 “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house (heaven) are many rooms; if that were not so, I would have told you, because I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will take you to Myself, so that where I am, there you also will be. 4 And you know the way where I am going.” 5 Thomas *said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going; how do we know the way?” 6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.


So where is the Father's house?


I can assure you that it isn't this earth?

Now by whose authority and definition is The Revised English Bible highly accurate?
 
So where is the Father's house?
I can assure you that it isn't this earth?
It is in heaven. After the Millennium, it will come to the earth and then those who are worthy will live in it. NOT before then.
Now by whose authority and definition is The Revised English Bible highly accurate?
By Wickliffe Bible Translators. It is their reference Bible.
It is a complete retranstaltion, using many more manuscripts, incl the Dead Sea Scrolls and the pooled wisdom of hundreds of scholars to get an unbiased and accurate rendition of what is meant in the scriptures.

Your reply in #13, does not refute the Words of Jesus. He said that humans cannot go to heaven. God has angels there to serve Him, why should He take humans there too?
We are made to live on the earth, it is our home. We have tasks to do here. Skiving off is not an option.
 
It is in heaven. After the Millennium, it will come to the earth and then those who are worthy will live in it. NOT before then.

You are totally deceived, for Jesus was about ready to die and rise again and then go into heaven and this is when he said in John 14:1-5 "if I go, I will also come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also and which clearly reveals that we shall be removed from the earth to go with him into heaven.

By Wickliffe Bible Translators. It is their reference Bible.
It is a complete retranstaltion, using many more manuscripts, incl the Dead Sea Scrolls and the pooled wisdom of hundreds of scholars to get an unbiased and accurate rendition of what is meant in the scriptures.

Yeah sure it is, LOL.
Your reply in #13, does not refute the Words of Jesus. He said that humans cannot go to heaven. God has angels there to serve Him, why should He take humans there too?
He was human and said that he could go into heaven and therefore your argument on that fails also.

What he meant in John 3:13 is that no human being who is impure and hasn't been totally purged from all sin can enter into heaven and be with God and not that they never could at all after sin was totally removed from them like it will be for those who believe when Jesus returns and at the last trump.

You are like a lot of other people on this forum, you get one verse and go wacky on it taking it to the extreme while not paying attention to the many other verses that have to be considered along with it in order to get a correct understanding of the full picture.

What he meant was that no human being could enter into heaven with sin still dwelling within them and that is why Jesus had to go to the cross first to pay for our sins and then rise from the dead and ascend into heaven first.

So that we could be free from sin first within our hearts and then eventually also within our bodies at his coming and which is what 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-58 plus 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 is speaking of.
We are made to live on the earth, it is our home. We have tasks to do here. Skiving off is not an option.
Not this earth, for this was always only the testing ground for us to become ready to enter heaven and also eventually the heavenly Jerusalem on the New earth after the New Heaven and Earth is established first.


I am not going to waste much time with you on this, for it is obvious that you don't really want to accept what the Bible says at all but instead you want the Bible to fit your own off the wall ideas and bias.


You take some scripture to the far extreme and go off the wall with them while you totally disregard other scriptures that reveal that you are wrong with the ones you are off the wall with and therefore it is a waste of time talking with you about for that reason and also because of your stubborn pride.


Good bye!!!!
 
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It is in heaven. After the Millennium, it will come to the earth and then those who are worthy will live in it. NOT before then.

By Wickliffe Bible Translators. It is their reference Bible.
It is a complete retranstaltion, using many more manuscripts, incl the Dead Sea Scrolls and the pooled wisdom of hundreds of scholars to get an unbiased and accurate rendition of what is meant in the scriptures.

Your reply in #13, does not refute the Words of Jesus. He said that humans cannot go to heaven. God has angels there to serve Him, why should He take humans there too?
We are made to live on the earth, it is our home. We have tasks to do here. Skiving off is not an option.
By the way, I forgot to ask this in my previous post to the above, but if heaven comes to earth, then where do the saints come from that will be within it?


furthermore, if it is still heaven and you admitted that yourself in the above, then what difference would it make from the saints being resurrected and raptured into heaven above from their entering into it on the earth, for it is still heaven?

Read Revelation 21-22, for it very clearly reveals that both God and Christ will be its light and also its Temple and therefore it will be all and the same on the earth as it would be up in space somewhere, because the Awesome Holy God will be dwelling within it just like he was in the heaven in outer space.


Are you getting the picture yet, "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven"?


Now read this from Psalm 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?

4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.




The above is what Jesus was telling Nicodemus in John 3:13, for at that time no one was purged from their sin to be able to ascend into the mountain of God in heaven except for Jesus alone but Jesus made a way through his death now and that is what he was telling his disciples in John 14.


You are being deceived and you best take some thought about what your real motives are in this and do as Paul says "examine yourself and see whether or not you are in the faith, do you not know that Christ dwells within you unless you fail the test"?


Christ doesn't promote false doctrines concerning what he has already revealed in his words in the NT and that is what you are doing.
 
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You are totally deceived, for Jesus was about ready to die and rise again and then go into heaven and this is when he said in John 14:1-5 "if I go, I will also come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there you may be also and which clearly reveals that we shall be removed from the earth to go with him into heaven.
Just read John 14:3 again; slowly and carefully:
It says; Jesus will come again, - The glorious Return. Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11
and take you to Myself - The gathering of 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31
where I am, you will be also. - In Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3
if heaven comes to earth, then where do the saints come from that will be within it?
No scripture says that any saints live in heaven. David 'sleeps' in his grave until the Judgement, after the Millennium. Acts 13:36
You are being deceived and you best take some thought about what your real motives are
I strongly recommend that you do this. YOU are deceived and have believed false teachings, as Paul said would happen. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
 
Just read John 14:3 again; slowly and carefully:
It says; Jesus will come again, - The glorious Return. Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11
and take you to Myself - The gathering of 1 Thess 4:17 and Matthew 24:31
where I am, you will be also. - In Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:3

Like I said you are completely deceived, for Jesus will not be coming back to this old earth at all, for as Peter says in 2 Peter 3:10-12, this heaven and earth including the OT geographical Jerusalem will not be here any more after he appears in the clouds at his return, for it very clearly says that it will pass away with a great noise and by fire.


And therefore before this happens, Christ will resurrect those of his saints that have died and remove (harpagmos) his saints that are still alive on this old earth into heaven and then God will set up his court to Judge the resurrected wicked as per Revelation 20 and only after this, will God destroy them and this old heaven and earth by fire as per 2 Peter 3:10-12.

There will be no such thing as another 1000 years on this earth for mortal Jews or Gentiles after this present age and like most falsely teach about what Revelation 20 is referring to, for that isn't what is meant by the symbolic 1000 years, for that 1000 years is a symbolic figure of this present age and just as 2 Peter 3:8-10 reveals, where "one day is with the Lord as a 1000 years and a 1000 years as one day".



No scripture says that any saints live in heaven. David 'sleeps' in his grave until the Judgement, after the Millennium. Acts 13:36.

Again, the 1000 years of Revelation 20 is not referring to another 1000 years after Jesus returns but rather it is a symbolic figure of this present age where one day with the Lord is as 1000 years and 1000 years as one day.
I strongly recommend that you do this. YOU are deceived and have believed false teachings, as Paul said would happen. 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Well, I can afford to patiently wait until your folly is fully exposed to all creation, but you don't have much time now to get your heart and head straight about these things and I am sure that this isn't the only false doctrine you believe in either, for one false doctrine always breeds another and another and right back to the root itself.
 
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