G
guest1
Guest
Amen they conflate foreknowing with determinism/predestination
Election is not for all of us.
"Many are called, few are chosen".
Calvinist declaring, they are elected does not equate to such.
Sketo
Well-known member
Calvinism teaches that fallen man can not “want” to seek God apart from Grace, fallen man can not “want” to think a right thought about God apart from Grace, and fallen man does not “want” to know truth about God apart from Grace…
… but he could… if… he “wanted” to!
…
Dizerner
Well-known member
"Then he said to his servants,`The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. (Matt. 22:8 NKJ)
Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, (Prov. 1:24 NKJ)
It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. (Acts 13:46 NKJ)
But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him. (Lk. 7:30 NKJ)
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10 NKJ)
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Amen
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
I think you are wondering who is listening. So He is teaching those who will read or listen that He is fair, equitable
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
The He who I said would be ubfair for withholding grace is God, Why are you changing that to an atheist withholding grace? You lost me
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
The post by Bocco is simply one of the standard tenets of Calvinism, God decides before people exists who will be chosen and who will not. Since most people know that is part of TULIP, it is not hard to understand and repond to.
While God foreknows who will be in Christ and predestines Heaven for them, He does not predestine them to be in Christ. There is no verse that declares any idea like that. What is predestined is all the benefits of being regenerated,
Using a metaphor, God has sent out an RSVP to everyone inviting them to the Lamb's Supper. Since He knows who will respond, He then predestines a plate at the table for each person.
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
The element of truth that you miss is that despite Christ atoning for all sin, God has arranged it that redemption, forgiveness and the like, are only received in Christ. If you reject Christ, you also reject the redemption that is in Him,
G
guest1
Guest
Exactly!
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
If you find it necessary to change what i say in order to supposedly defeat my argument, it is called a straw man.Now heretics are teaching people that God does not do a good enough job when it comes to Atheists.
Only if He does a good job and presents Himself in the right way...
I said nothing at all about how well God did His part. So you need to consider why you needed to change what i said to your version of my statement.
I can repeat. God makes Himself known to everyone. No one will stand before God claiming they never knew Who He was. And what i said was, despite that revelation, people reject Jesus.
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
Did you discuss scripture along side Chaledon when he was supporting calvinism? And you never called him on anything? But now you are claiming he was never a Calvinist despite hm being the poster boy for Calvinists here?
G
guest1
Guest
Every single Calvinist rep me and gave me high 5’s. Look at my old posts / threads I started on this forum as a Calvinist . One who I have in ignore said I was an excellent teacher lol . Oh the irony
I’m better now
All we see are ad hominems from them with the exception of only a few .
Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
Just a note about called and chosen and the parable they come from.
In it the smaller group are the Jews, the Chosen, the few. They reject Christ
The larger group are everyone else, the called (even the jews were called) not all the called receive Christ.
In the parable Jesus uses "chosen" differently than Paul will uses the word. The Jews were God's chosen people on earth which Jesus addresses.
When Paul uses chosen in reference to Christian, he is speaking of their right to be in heaven, because they came to Christ
Theo1689
Well-known member
One who I have in ignore said I was an excellent teacher lol . Oh the irony
I was mistaken.
But you sure do love boasting about yourself.
I’m better now
You sure do love boasting about yourself.
... which is itself an "ad hom".
You are the king of ad hom's.
Now that we've both called each other that, can we go back to exegesis now?
Exeter
Active member
Biblical Theology refutes that assumption in so many ways:
Faith in the shed blood of Christ is the conduit through which God's grace is made available to the sinner.
1Ti 2:1-6
1 First of all, then, I urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be offered for everyone—
2 for kings and all those in authority—so that we may lead tranquil and quiet lives in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all—the testimony that was given at just the right time.
1 Cor 12:1-3
1 Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be uninformed.
2 You know that when you were pagans, you were influenced and led astray to mute idols.
3 Therefore I inform you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
1Jn 4:1-3
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and which is already in the world at this time.
And a whole lot more . . .
Manfred
Well-known member
Just as I predicted. The context of the scripture is just to difficult for Arminians to understand so they resort to saying we are forcing an error onto scripture.There ya go FORCING your errors on all of scripture to stay in your errors.Rev 22:17 - And the Spirit-and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say,Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
However, Jesus Himself says these things are hidden from the wise and understanding. There is no forcing error into that.
The error would be Arminians who think these things are not hidden from the wise and understanding but open to every individual.
This is the lie taught by Arminians.
If you read Rev 22:17 with the premise Jesus gives us, that these things are hidden to the wise and understanding and revealed to only those whom He chooses to reveal the Father to, then there is no contradiction.
When you read it through the Arminian perspective that these things are not hidden from the wise and understanding and that it is revealed to everyone and not only those to whom Jesus chooses to reveal the father to, then they make Jesus out to be a liar.
They do it here day after day after day, and all they can do is say others are distorting scripture, thereby they prove Jesus right, in that these truths are indeed hidden from them.
Dizerner
Well-known member
Hidden from the wise and understanding is talking about human pride.
If Calvinistic divine determinism were meant, Jesus would say "these things are hidden from the non-elect and revealed to the elect."
He didn't say that did he, but we are the ones "lying" and "forcing an error"?
Hogwash.
Jesus is talking about humbling yourself, and that God resists the proud.
He is not talking about God determining whom he will make proud and whom he will make humble.
If Calvinistic divine determinism were meant, Jesus would say "these things are hidden from the non-elect and revealed to the elect."
He didn't say that did he, but we are the ones "lying" and "forcing an error"?
Hogwash.
Jesus is talking about humbling yourself, and that God resists the proud.
He is not talking about God determining whom he will make proud and whom he will make humble.
Manfred
Well-known member
Faith that comes from where?
What caused you to have this faith!
Before your conversion, you heard the gospel preached, you read the Bible perhaps.
What about you was so inherently good that you were able to allow your sin to be exposed, by saying you will choose to believe what you heard or read, while another chooses not to believe what he heard or read and have his sin exposed.
Were you just the better man!
And you think the context of these verses are that everyone means each and every individual.
Look again. Every class of individual even kings and those in authority.
That is why he is petitioning, for peace that even those who are in authority can come to repentance.
Correct, a ransom even for kings and those in authority.
Discernment.
Mormons and JW's claim Jesus is Lord.
Do they have the right Jesus!
See above re Mormons and JW's
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Every single Calvinist rep me and gave me high 5’s. Look at my old posts / threads I started on this forum as a Calvinist . One who I have in ignore said I was an excellent teacher lol . Oh the irony
I’m better now
All we see are ad hominems from them with the exception of only a few
Aww...poor baby. It will be okay. Say 10 hail Mary's you will feel better.