1 Cor. 15:26 "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death", what does that mean?

[Yahweh will increase]

The Bible speaks of two returns. If you want to deny it then that's your problem.

We see the resurrection of the saints...as they are present in heaven....or is that also allegorical?

What verse are you speaking of here first off?

We also see the resurrection of those who had no faith after the 1000 year reign.

Also, you forgot about the first fruits that Paul mentions as already being resurrected in 1 Corinthians 15:23 and which are spoken of in Matthew 27:51-53

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Jesus didn't ascend on a "symbolic" or literal white horse. Jesus didn't make war with the wicked during His ascension....in other words Jesus didn't ascend in the way in which He left.

No he didn't and I never said he did, but you cannot compare literal texts with those of Revelation which is highly hyperbolic and symbolic in nature.

My point was that Jesus is not literally returning on a white horse like you obviously must believe in your simplistic ignorance.

...and you oh wise one...have figured out the cryptic language and symbolic images?????

I can only say that I am ahead of you on that because I know that they are cryptic and symbolic while you continue to be ignorant about it but I don't understand them all yet and neither does anyone else either.

However, I do know what some of them mean and which is more than what you could know being you deny the symbolic nature of Revelation and therefore cut yourself off from learning what they mean by your own choice and denial.

 

[CrowCross]

What verse are you speaking of here first off?

Dinner. The feast.....marrige supper...or is that also symbolic?

Also, you forgot about the first fruits that Paul mentions as already being resurrected in 1 Corinthians 15:23 and which are spoken of in Matthew 27:51-53

Your going to build doctrine from a verse that is not really understood and mentioned once?

What happened to them? Did they die later on? Were they raptured? Are they still alive and walking the earth?

 

[CrowCross]

My point was that Jesus is not literally returning on a white horse like you obviously must believe in your simplistic ignorance.

Your logic would then seem to suggest that Christ return is also symbolic.

 

[CrowCross]

I can only say that I am ahead of you on that because I know that they are cryptic and symbolic while you continue to be ignorant about it but I don't understand them all yet and neither does anyone else either.

Then why are you so freaking dogmatic about it if you don't understand it yet? Why do you not say....I think it's like this? Why are you so arrogant about it?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Dinner. The feast.....marrige supper...or is that also symbolic?

Where does it say that they are already in heaven during the Tribulation however and that was my question, where are you getting this from, what chapter and verse?

Your going to build doctrine from a verse that is not really understood and mentioned once?

I haven't a clue what you are talking about here, for you are the one who is doing this in your belief that there are two comings of Jesus and more than one future resurrection and which there is no support from the Bible for at all period.

Matthew 27:51-53 very clearly reveals that there was a resurrection of saints following that of Jesus himself and it says that they remained on the earth long enough to appear unto a great number of people also.

If you believe this died again, that is nonsense, for being Jesus died already for their sins, they could go right into heaven after him and so it wouldn't be like it was with Lazarus who died and was raised before Jesus paid for his sins on the cross.

What happened to them? Did they die later on? Were they raptured? Are they still alive and walking the earth?

Again, no they wouldn't have had to die again because Jesus already died for their sins so that they could enter into heaven after him and which is probably what happened to them but it doesn't matter anyhow, because they were resurrected and after Jesus died for their sins and unlike Lazarus who would have had to die again being Jesus had not payed for his sins yet.


You shouldn't really need to ask, for actually Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:23 tells you they were resurrected as the first fruits of believers in Christ.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Then why are you so freaking dogmatic about it if you don't understand it yet? Why do you not say....I think it's like this? Why are you so arrogant about it?

I am only being dogmatic about what I do understand and you apparently didn't read what I said or pay attention to it, for if you had you would have understood this.

I said that I don't understand every symbol yet and not that I don't understand any of them.

So the ones that I don't understand yet, I don't comment on or I will say, "this is my belief about it but I am not sure".

You know, I have to labor on these things quite a bit when conversing with you, because you obviously don't want to pay attention to what I am saying but only want to find fault with it instead and therefore I have to repeat myself over and over with you.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Your logic would then seem to suggest that Christ return is also symbolic.

Oh bunk, for all of the literal gospels speak of it and so do the many of the literal letters as well.

This is what I am talking about, for you are not wanting to hear what I am saying but only wanting to find fault with it and therefore you are reading your your own denial of what I said into what I said, for you know good and well that I believe in a literal return of Jesus Christ.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Then why are you so freaking dogmatic about it if you don't understand it yet? Why do you not say....I think it's like this? Why are you so arrogant about it?

Ae you not aware that the word "freaking" is basically the same thing as another word that is extremely vulgar and that it is used in place of that word but it means the same exact thing?

 

[CrowCross]

Where does it say that they are already in heaven during the Tribulation

Are you now saying the rapture just before the marriage supper? Kinda mid-trip?

I haven't a clue what you are talking about here,

You're building a doctrine and supporting with one obscure verse about people coming g back to life when Jesus was crucified.

which is probably

Now you're expanding your doctrine with...a probably?

 

[CrowCross]

Oh bunk, for all of the literal gospels speak of it and so do the many of the literal letters as well.

So, what you are doing is mixing literal events...and calling why you don't understand or believe as symbolic. Then calling me "bunk" because I disagree with your great doctrine????

 

[CrowCross]

Ae you not aware that the word "freaking" is basically the same thing as another word that is extremely vulgar and that it is used in place of that word but it means the same exact thing?

If the shoe fits...wear it.

NEXT

 

[Yahweh will increase]

So, what you are doing is mixing literal events...and calling why you don't understand or believe as symbolic. Then calling me "bunk" because I disagree with your great doctrine????

And what you are doing is living in denial of the facts of scripture and therefore what is probably holding you to your doctrines isn't even what you see as can be proven from scripture at all but rather it is because you love your church and your relationships and what they teach more than the truth that can be proven from scripture.

This is not uncommon for Trins either, for many of them are in the same boat, they are comfortable with their situation in life and with their church friends and pastors and this is the most important thing from them and not actually what the scriptures teach at all.

I am just thankful to God that he never allowed this to dominate me like it does for many, for had it been that important for me, then I would still be following their false teachings like you and many others are doing.

 

[CrowCross]

And what you are doing is living in denial of the facts of scripture and therefore what is probably holding you to your doctrines isn't even what you see as can be proven from scripture at all but rather it is because you love your church and your relationships and what they teach more than the truth that can be proven from scripture.

This is not uncommon for Trins either, for many of them are in the same boat, they are comfortable with their situation in life and with their church friends and pastors and this is the most important thing from them and not actually what the scriptures teach at all.

I am just thankful to God that he never allowed this to dominate me like it does for many, for had it been that important for me, then I would still be following their false teachings like you and many others are doing.

Yes, the Bible speaks of many being deceived....that would be you.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Yes, the Bible speaks of many being deceived....that would be you.

Whether you like it or not, my view called "amillennialism" goes all the way back to the first Century of the church.


What you do with Revelation is to see it as totally chronological and that is the difference between what I see and what you do, for I see John giving different pictures of the same time period and like the 7 seals and the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of wrath, for I see them as all referring to the same time period and different angels of the tribulation.

Therefore in Revelation 20, to sum it all up, Jesus gave John a spiritual picture of the church age from the beginning when Christ died on the cross and restricted (bound the strong man) Satan's ability to keep the nations in deception about God, Christ and the gospel message to when Satan is freed from his restrictions through the apostasy and the many false doctrines that come out of it. .

First, the 1000 years represents this church age but only in for the time when the church was not in apostasy from the truth but still abiding in the truth and it is not speaking of a literal 1000 years either but it is figurative for that time period.

The first resurrection refers to Christ's resurrection and just as Paul also revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:23, and through his resurrection those who were spiritually dead come to life through their repentance and faith, they live and die during the church age represented by the 1000 years.

When it says they reign with Christ for 1000 years, it is referring to their having the victory over the world the flesh and the Devil and it is not speaking of them reigning over other people.

When it says "and judgment was given them" it is referring to judgment having been given to them in their favor through Christ and his death on the cross and resurrection and ascension to the throne of God also.

When John says, "I saw thrones and they sat upon them" Paul actually pretty much said the same thing in Ephesians 2 when he said that as they were once dead in trespasses and sins, now through Christ he has raised them up and made them sit together in heavenly places.

This refers to the fact that Jesus has been raised up from the dead and is now seated in heaven at the right hand of God on their behalf

One other thing here, although the resurrection of the believer includes the eventual resurrection of his body, it doesn't begin with his body but rather with his spirit where he was made alive through Christ from being dead in trespasses and sins.

This is what John is speaking of in Revelation 20:4-6, for the first resurrection is that of Christ himself and through which all who repent and believe the gospel are included or take part and thus are made alive spiritually.

This is why when you read passages like Ephesians 2 :1-10 it should become clear that our salvation is always associated with the resurrection of Jesus through which we are also made alive from being dead in sins. and you see this in Colossians 3:1-4 also.

I am going to try and find some material on this from trin sources so you can see that many of them believe it this way also, even though I will have differences on some issues, I will look into getting this for you, for this view is as old as the beginnings of the church itself.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Yes, the Bible speaks of many being deceived....that would be you.

Here is something from a Trinitarians source about Amillennialism and which is what I believe to be the correct interpretation of Revelation with some variations from what they present about it but they will tell you that this was believed in the first Century of the church and therefore it is not heresy but a valid interpretation.

What is amillennialism? | GotQuestions.org

What is amillennialism? How does amillennialism differ from premillennialism and postmillennialism?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Whether you like it or not, my view called "amillennialism" goes all the way back to the first Century of the church.


What you do with Revelation is to see it as totally chronological and that is the difference between what I see and what you do, for I see John giving different pictures of the same time period and like the 7 seals and the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of wrath, for I see them as all referring to the same time period and different angels of the tribulation.

Therefore in Revelation 20, to sum it all up, Jesus gave John a spiritual picture of the church age from the beginning when Christ died on the cross and restricted (bound the strong man) Satan's ability to keep the nations in deception about God, Christ and the gospel message to when Satan is freed from his restrictions through the apostasy and the many false doctrines that come out of it. .

First, the 1000 years represents this church age but only in for the time when the church was not in apostasy from the truth but still abiding in the truth and it is not speaking of a literal 1000 years either but it is figurative for that time period.

The first resurrection refers to Christ's resurrection and just as Paul also revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:23, and through his resurrection those who were spiritually dead come to life through their repentance and faith, they live and die during the church age represented by the 1000 years.

When it says they reign with Christ for 1000 years, it is referring to their having the victory over the world the flesh and the Devil and it is not speaking of them reigning over other people.

When it says "and judgment was given them" it is referring to judgment having been given to them in their favor through Christ and his death on the cross and resurrection and ascension to the throne of God also.

When John says, "I saw thrones and they sat upon them" Paul actually pretty much said the same thing in Ephesians 2 when he said that as they were once dead in trespasses and sins, now through Christ he has raised them up and made them sit together in heavenly places.

This refers to the fact that Jesus has been raised up from the dead and is now seated in heaven at the right hand of God on their behalf

One other thing here, although the resurrection of the believer includes the eventual resurrection of his body, it doesn't begin with his body but rather with his spirit where he was made alive through Christ from being dead in trespasses and sins.

This is what John is speaking of in Revelation 20:4-6, for the first resurrection is that of Christ himself and through which all who repent and believe the gospel are included or take part and thus are made alive spiritually.

This is why when you read passages like Ephesians 2 :1-10 it should become clear that our salvation is always associated with the resurrection of Jesus through which we are also made alive from being dead in sins. and you see this in Colossians 3:1-4 also.

I am going to try and find some material on this from trin sources so you can see that many of them believe it this way also, even though I will have differences on some issues, I will look into getting this for you, for this view is as old as the beginnings of the church itself.

Correction on the bold orange underlined in the second sentence above, it should have been "angles", sorry.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Are you now saying the rapture just before the marriage supper? Kinda mid-trip?

You know good and well what I am saying, for I have been saying all along that the Resurrection and Rapture of God's elect will happen at the end of the trib when all of God's enemies are put under the feet of Christ included the sin in the flesh of believers and death that follows because of it and which will be the last enemy to be destroyed.

Furthermore, Revelation 19 proves that the marriage supper of the Lamb will occur only at the end of the tribulation, for it is mentioned here because Jesus has returned to destroy the wicked and take his saints home to heaven and to appear before God and as Paul also says in 1 Corinthians 15:24.

Here read it yourself below


Revelation 19:
6 Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:

“Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”


By the way, the above is the proclamation of the wedding of the lamb and his church that will soon occur after Jesus first destroys all God's enemies and as the text goes on to reveal that he will also.


Very clearly this only happens at Jesus' return to also destroy the wicked and we see this in chapter 19 above and by what follows after this proclamation below.

The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast​

11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

You're building a doctrine and supporting with one obscure verse about people coming g back to life when Jesus was crucified.

They didn't come back to life when he was crucified but only after he was resurrected, for that is what Matthew 27:51-53 reveals.

Furthermore, my doctrine isn't only built on this one verse, for Paul very clearly reveals in 1 Corinthians 15:22-26 and 51-53 that the resurrection that includes the rapture, only happens at his return, "But every man in his own order, Christ, the first fruits (Matthew 27:51-53), and after this those who belong to Christ at his coming"

Now you're expanding your doctrine with...a probably?

Why didn't you include the whole sentence in which I made this statement?

It is because you want to twist what I said and you do this a lot also.

It is no wonder that the Bible warns us about "the spirit of Leviathan the Twisting Serpent" and tells us of his soon coming judgment from God.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Whether you like it or not, my view called "amillennialism" goes all the way back to the first Century of the church.


What you do with Revelation is to see it as totally chronological and that is the difference between what I see and what you do, for I see John giving different pictures of the same time period and like the 7 seals and the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of wrath, for I see them as all referring to the same time period and different angels of the tribulation.

Therefore in Revelation 20, to sum it all up, Jesus gave John a spiritual picture of the church age from the beginning when Christ died on the cross and restricted (bound the strong man) Satan's ability to keep the nations in deception about God, Christ and the gospel message to when Satan is freed from his restrictions through the apostasy and the many false doctrines that come out of it. .

First, the 1000 years represents this church age but only in for the time when the church was not in apostasy from the truth but still abiding in the truth and it is not speaking of a literal 1000 years either but it is figurative for that time period.

The first resurrection refers to Christ's resurrection and just as Paul also revealed in 1 Corinthians 15:23, and through his resurrection those who were spiritually dead come to life through their repentance and faith, they live and die during the church age represented by the 1000 years.

When it says they reign with Christ for 1000 years, it is referring to their having the victory over the world the flesh and the Devil and it is not speaking of them reigning over other people.

When it says "and judgment was given them" it is referring to judgment having been given to them in their favor through Christ and his death on the cross and resurrection and ascension to the throne of God also.

When John says, "I saw thrones and they sat upon them" Paul actually pretty much said the same thing in Ephesians 2 when he said that as they were once dead in trespasses and sins, now through Christ he has raised them up and made them sit together in heavenly places.

This refers to the fact that Jesus has been raised up from the dead and is now seated in heaven at the right hand of God on their behalf

One other thing here, although the resurrection of the believer includes the eventual resurrection of his body, it doesn't begin with his body but rather with his spirit where he was made alive through Christ from being dead in trespasses and sins.

This is what John is speaking of in Revelation 20:4-6, for the first resurrection is that of Christ himself and through which all who repent and believe the gospel are included or take part and thus are made alive spiritually.

This is why when you read passages like Ephesians 2 :1-10 it should become clear that our salvation is always associated with the resurrection of Jesus through which we are also made alive from being dead in sins. and you see this in Colossians 3:1-4 also.

I am going to try and find some material on this from trin sources so you can see that many of them believe it this way also, even though I will have differences on some issues, I will look into getting this for you, for this view is as old as the beginnings of the church itself.

Correction on the above in the bold red, God had corrected me about this and I was wrong about the 1000 years only referring to when the church was walking in the truth, for it refers to this full church age both good and bad, so scratch this part of what I said, and chalk it up as a senior moment from me.

I am sorry about this but I never said I was perfect and never made mistakes anyhow and it is good for us to make mistakes once and awhile as long as we correct them, for it keeps us humble before God and men.

 

[leonard03782]

Don't think so.

1Co 15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Rule (archēn), authority (exousian), power (dunamin). All forms of power opposing the will of God. Constative aorist tense covering the whole period of conflict with final victory as climax.

Ephesians 3:10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,

Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

It sounds like Christ puts an end to all enemies: all rulers, powers, authorities, and death is the last enemy.

I started to disagree with you on this point.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

It then occurred to me that those in the lake of fire will be alive there for all of eternity.