Septuagint

Whoever translated the Septuagint from Hebrew, understood the language more-so then those that created the strong's concordance.

Exodus 12:9 - אל־תאכלו ממנו נא (Eat not of it raw)



The Septuagint translates this as οὐκ ἔδεσθε ἀπ αὐτῶν ὠμὸν which concludes that נא is ὠμός.

Numbers 30:5 - ואם־הניא אביה אתה (But if her father disallow her)
LXX ἐὰν δὲ ἀνανεύων ἀνανεύσῃ ὁ πατὴρ αὐτῆς

ἀνανεύω
- throw the head back in token of denial, make signs of refusal
νεύω -
incline in any direction, to nod or beckon, as a sign
*ἀνανεύω as a compound verb therefore homologize with הפעיל

This concludes that נוא is νεύω and ἀνανεύω is הניא, therefore נא "raw" is not from נוא
Your logic is so tortuous I am unable to follow it. How you can you use Greek word forms to assess Hebrew?

"Most linguists today do not regard Hebrew and Greek as genetically related, but there is a respectable minority who believe that we can trace relationship further back than Afro-Asiatic and Indo-European to a superphylum, such as Nostratic, or Eurasiatic, depending on the particular theory. In those linguists' conception, Hebrew and Greek are related, but very distantly, in the way that a horse and a fly are very distantly related."[source]
 
Your logic is so tortuous I am unable to follow it. How you can you use Greek word forms to assess Hebrew?

"Most linguists today do not regard Hebrew and Greek as genetically related, but there is a respectable minority who believe that we can trace relationship further back than Afro-Asiatic and Indo-European to a superphylum, such as Nostratic, or Eurasiatic, depending on the particular theory. In those linguists' conception, Hebrew and Greek are related, but very distantly, in the way that a horse and a fly are very distantly related."[source]

The language is Phoenician, not Hebrew. The Phoenicians were present throughout the Mediterranean Sea, continuously interacting with Greeks, they founded Carthage and dozens other colonies, the oldest cities in Europe were founded by the Phoenicians.
 
The language is Phoenician, not Hebrew. The Phoenicians were present throughout the Mediterranean Sea, continuously interacting with Greeks, they founded Carthage and dozens other colonies, the oldest cities in Europe were founded by the Phoenicians.
Phoenician was orignally close to Hebrew and Moabite, with which it forms the Canaanite subgroup of the Northwestern Semitic languages, I believe they or at least their scripts derived from the same proto Sinaitic source circa 1500BC or even earlier, which came from Egypt. Greek is a much later development from Phoenicians circa 800BC. By that time Hebrew and Phoenician were presumably divergent. Exodus would have been written about 700 years before Greek was invented, albeit presumably copied in later Hebrew script.
 
Exodus 12:9
בשל
מבשל

ἕψω בשל

boil, seethe, of meat

ἑψανός (adj) מבשל
boiled

πέσσω בשל
of the West wind, ripen fruit
by the action of fire, cook, dress, esp. bake

ἐκπέσσω הבשיל
cook thoroughly: hence,
of animals, digest or concoct food thoroughly
of plants, ripen
 
Phoenician was orignally close to Hebrew and Moabite, with which it forms the Canaanite subgroup of the Northwestern Semitic languages, I believe they or at least their scripts derived from the same proto Sinaitic source circa 1500BC or even earlier, which came from Egypt. Greek is a much later development from Phoenicians circa 800BC. By that time Hebrew and Phoenician were presumably divergent. Exodus would have been written about 700 years before Greek was invented, albeit presumably copied in later Hebrew script.

No culture arose from Sinai, because it is a deserted wasteland, no great culture ever lived in that area, all that is there are scribbles left by travelling merchants.
 
בהמות (plural) בהמה (singular)

It is plural because it conforms to βόσκημα (chiefly in the plural). Josephus uses this word 27 times in his Antiquitates , always plural.

Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews, 1.311
Jacob also drove away half the cattle (GK. ἐπήγετο δὲ Ἰάκωβος καὶ τῶν βοσκημάτων)
https://lexundria.com/j_aj/1.311/wst

Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews, 1.54
but Abel brought milk, and the first-fruits of his flocks (Gk. Ἄβελος δὲ γάλα καὶ τὰ πρωτότοκα τῶν βοσκημάτων)

Genesis 4:4
Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock (צאנו) and of the fat thereof (מחלבהן)

צאן
= κτῆνος pl. κτήνεα (chiefly in the plural) domestic animals, livestock, flocks and herds.

חלב
1. ἀλείφατος (aleíphatos) ― fat
2. γλάγεος (glágeos) ― milk

Did Abel brought milk or fat?
Fat. We know this from the figure of speech he's employing which is the figure Hendiadys or "two for one" i.e. two things mentioned, but only one thing meant. In this case it is the fattest of his flock. The fattest are the choicest or best of his flock.
 
In Exodus 12:9, the King James translates כרעי into "legs", but Septuagint as ποσὶν "feet"

Brenton's Septuagint Translation
Ye shall not eat of it raw nor sodden in water, but only roast with fire, the head with the feet and the appurtenances

King James
Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

The Septuagint is correct, the King James is incorrect.

ἀκρόπους כרע extremity of leg, i.e. foot
 
No culture arose from Sinai, because it is a deserted wasteland, no great culture ever lived in that area, all that is there are scribbles left by travelling merchants.
I guess the reason its called proto sinaitic is because the script has been found there, and in the places where the copper miners lived. It may well have arisen amongst the Israelites in Avaris, or amongst the Canaanites further to the east. Can't recall at present. Certainly it was formulated prior to 1500BC (circa the date of the Exodus). I know that early Hebrew is similar to the language of the Canaanites.
 
around 1500BCE there was no Phoenician script, in those days the Near Eastern languages were written in cuneiform, see Ugaritic.
 
Rewriting the Septuagint

2 Kings 21:13 I will wipe Jerusalem as a man wipeth a dish
מחיתי את־ירושלם כאשר ימחה את־הצלחת
LXX ἀπαλείψω τὴν Ιερουσαλημ καθὼς ἀπαλείφεται ὁ ἀλάβαστρος

μάξω מחיתי I will wipe
τὰ Ἱεροσόλυμα את־ירושלם Jerusalem
ὡς ἁνήρ כאשר as a man
μάσσει ימחה wiping
τό χαλκεῖον את־הצלחת a dish
 
Whoever translated the Septuagint from Hebrew, understood the language more-so then those that created the strong's concordance.

Exodus 12:9 - אל־תאכלו ממנו נא (Eat not of it raw)

  • Lexicon :: Strong's H4995 - nā'
  • נָא ; Apparently from נוֹא (H5106) in the sense of harshness from refusal
The Septuagint translates this as οὐκ ἔδεσθε ἀπ αὐτῶν ὠμὸν which concludes that נא is ὠμός.

Numbers 30:5 - ואם־הניא אביה אתה (But if her father disallow her)
LXX ἐὰν δὲ ἀνανεύων ἀνανεύσῃ ὁ πατὴρ αὐτῆς

ἀνανεύω
- throw the head back in token of denial, make signs of refusal
νεύω -
incline in any direction, to nod or beckon, as a sign
*ἀνανεύω as a compound verb therefore homologize with הפעיל

This concludes that נוא is νεύω and ἀνανεύω is הניא, therefore נא "raw" is not from נוא


The Hebrew goes:
אַל־ תֹּאכְל֤וּ מִמֶּ֙נּוּ֙ נָ֔א

Strong's: raw - it - eat - Don't
LXX:
οὐκ ἔδεσθε ἀπ᾽ αὐτῶν ὠμὸν

Strong's definitions for the LXX:
o'-mos; perhaps from the alternate of G5342; the shoulder (as that on which burdens are borne):—shoulder.

Brenton's LXX:
"Ye shall not eat of it raw"

NETS LXX:
"You shall not eat from it raw"

Church Slavonic (based on LXX)
не снѣ́сте от ни́хъ су́рово,
(I think this means: ) "Don't take/eat from them rawly/severely..."

This Greek word "omos" is used in Genesis 21:14
ἀνέστη δὲ Αβρααμ τὸ πρωὶ καὶ ἔλαβεν ἄρτους καὶ ἀσκὸν ὕδατος καὶ ἔδωκεν Αγαρ καὶ ἐπέθηκεν ἐπὶ τὸν ὦμον
Brenton's LXX:
"And Abraam rose up in the morning and took loaves and a skin of water, and gave them to Agar, and he put the child on her shoulder"

I don't understand your logic that "נא " (Na) in Hebrew means "shoulder" (Greek omos), not "raw." You pointed to Numbers 30:5, but that verse in Numbers doesn't use the Hebrew word "Na" or the Greek word "omos" (shoulder).

Strong's says about the Hebrew "Na":
Apparently from nuw' in the sense of harshness from refusal; properly, tough, i.e. Uncooked (flesh) -- raw.
That makes some sense - ie. Na (raw) would be Nuw (rejected).

You quoted Numbers 30:5, because it uses the Hebrew word nuw (refused) - ואם־הניא אביה אתה

You quoted the Greek of Numbers 30:5, and wrote:
ἀνανεύω - throw the head back in token of denial, make signs of refusal
νεύω -
incline in any direction, to nod or beckon, as a sign
*ἀνανεύω as a compound verb therefore homologize with הפעיל

This concludes that נוא is νεύω and ἀνανεύω is הניא
OK, I see that Hebrew Nuw is Greek neun and Greek ananeuw is Hebrew anananew, but I don't see how the Greek word must "homologize" with הפעיל or why this means that "therefore נא "raw" is not from נוא". Just because you have found the Greek translation for two related Hebrew words doesn't mean that a different Greek word that a translator uses for a possibly related Hebrew word must be correct.

In other words, even if the Greek translator got Hebrew "Nuw" correct, it doesn't mean that he got Hebrew "Na" correct.

Gesenius gives this same definition for Hebrew "Na", pointing to Arabic "Ye", meaning raw, half cooked:

One would also want to look to rabbinic use of this word in Exodus 12:9, because the rabbis have been practicing the food rules since ancient times, and because they read Hebrew natively.

Judaica Press Tanakh translates it this way on the Chabad website:
"You shall not eat it rare..."
 
Last edited:
The Hebrew goes:

LXX:
οὐκ ἔδεσθε ἀπ᾽ αὐτῶν ὠμὸν

Strong's definitions for the LXX:


Brenton's LXX:
"Ye shall not eat of it raw"

NETS LXX:
"You shall not eat from it raw"

Church Slavonic (based on LXX)
не снѣ́сте от ни́хъ су́рово,
(I think this means: ) "Don't take/eat from them rawly/severely..."

This Greek word "omos" is used in Genesis 21:14

Brenton's LXX:
"And Abraam rose up in the morning and took loaves and a skin of water, and gave them to Agar, and he put the child on her shoulder"

I don't understand your logic that "נא " (Na) in Hebrew means "shoulder" (Greek omos), not "raw." You pointed to Numbers 30:5, but that verse in Numbers doesn't use the Hebrew word "Na" or the Greek word "omos" (shoulder).

This is a common problem with Americans, they suffer from ignoramus and Greek is outside the scope of the American education system.

ὠμός 1
I.raw, undressed, Lat. crudus, of flesh, Hom.; ὠμὸν καταφαγεῖν τινά to eat one raw, proverb. of savage cruelty, Xen.; so, ὠμὸν βεβρώθοις Πρίαμον Il.
 
Ezekiel 31:17 גם הם אתו ירדו שאולה
They also went down into hell with him

καὶ γὰρ αὐτοὶ κατέβησαν μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ εἰς ᾅδου (LXX)

The Septuagint renders שאולה into εἰς ᾅδου, but the preposition εἰς is absent in the Hebrew, that is doing something which occurs in Homeric Greek, that is adding δε (-de) to nouns to form an adverb of motion.

Αϊδος
שאולἌϊδόσδε שאולה "to the nether world".

κατῆλθον ἄιδοσδε (
ירדו שאולה) "gone down to Hades"
 
Last edited:
ἄιδος (sg masc gen) is only used in Epic Greek, the Koine is ᾄδου.


The Greek stem is ἄιδο-
ἄιδο→ ἄιοδ→ ἄιολ → ἄυολ → שאול.

υ/ι also exchanges with ב, so that ἄιδος is written אבד, אבדון , אבדה.

ἀιδής unseen
ἀφανής unseen, invisible, viewless, of the nether world, to disappear, be missing.

Psalm 88:11 באבדון "In Hades" ἐν Ἀϊδωνεύς
Jeremiah 50:6 צאן אבדות "lost sheep"

Psalm 119:176 תעיתי כשה אבד
"I go to and fro like a lost ram"
~ φοιτέω ὡς ὄϊν ἀφάνα

Hermes, the shepherd, patron of flocks/rams, is the psychpomp who escorts the dead into Hades.

Sappho, fr. 55 Campbell
Unseen in the house of Hades also, flown from our midst, you will go to and fro among the shadowy corpses.

ἀλλ’ ἀφάνης κἀν Ἀΐδα δόμῳ φοιτάσῃς πεδ’ ἀμαύρων νεκύων ἐκπεποταμένα.

Iliad 20.54 ὑπένερθεν ἄναξ ἐνέρων Ἀϊδωνεύς
In the world below was Aidoneus, lord of the shades

ἔνεροι those below, those beneath the earth, of the dead. Lat. inferi.
ἔνερθε = תחתיΤάρταρος netherworld
 
Last edited:
2 Chronicles 36:22
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying

ובשנת אחת לכורש מלך פרס לכלות דבר־יהוה בפי ירמיהו העיר יהוה את־רוח כורש מלך־פרס ויעבר־קול בכל־מלכותו וגם־ במכתב לאמר (MT)

ἔτους πρώτου Κύρου βασιλέως Περσῶν μετὰ τὸ πληρωθῆναι ῥῆμα κυρίου διὰ στόματος Ιερεμιου ἐξήγειρεν κύριος τὸ πνεῦμα Κύρου βασιλέως Περσῶν καὶ παρήγγειλεν κηρύξαι ἐν πάσῃ τῇ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ ἐν γραπτῷ λέγων (LXX)

Ezra 1:1
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying

ובשנת אחת לכורש מלך פרס לכלות דבר־יהוה מפי ירמיה העיר יהוה את־רוח כרש מלך־פרס ויעבר־קול בכל־מלכותו וגם־ במכתב לאמר (MT)

καὶ ἐν τῷ πρώτῳ ἔτει Κύρου τοῦ βασιλέως Περσῶν τοῦ τελεσθῆναι λόγον κυρίου ἀπὸ στόματος Ιερεμιου ἐξήγειρεν κύριος τὸ πνεῦμα Κύρου βασιλέως Περσῶν καὶ παρήγγειλεν φωνὴν ἐν πάσῃ βασιλείᾳ αὐτοῦ καί γε ἐν γραπτῷ λέγων (LXX)

The Hebrew in Ezra 1:1 and 2 Chronicles 36:22 is the same, but the Septuagint differs, also, this another evidence that KJV is a hybrid translation of the MT and Septuagint. be fulfilled is a translation of πληρωθῆναι (לכלות), be accomplished of τελεσθῆναι (למלאות).


ἀμφ᾽Ἱερεμίᾳ מפי ירמיה
"concerning Jeremiah".
παρ-ώρμησεν העיר "stirred up".
τὴν ψυχὴν Κύρου את־רוח כורש "the mind of Cyrus"
 
δονέω (donéō) drive about, agitate, excite, δ. καρδίαν to agitate one's mind.
δικάζω (dikázō) to judge, to give judgment on a thing.

δονέω דון
δικάζω הדין

These different Greek verbs, with unique etymologies are written alike in Phoenician.

Genesis 30:6
דנני δικάζει μοι "Judge me".

Psalm 7:8
ידין עמים δικάζει λαούς "He judge the people".

2 Samuel 19:9
כל־העם נדון πᾶς ὁ λαὸς δονεόμενος "all the people were at strife".

Proverbs 15:18
יגרה מדון κραδαίνει δόνημα or ταράσσει δόνημα "stir up strife."


δικάζω שפט
θεμίζω שפט 'to judge, punish.
δεσπόζω שפט 'to be lord or master

Judges 10:2

וישפט ἐδίκασεν "He judged".

Judges 16:31
הוא שפט ὁ δεσπόζει "He lord (over)" / ὁ ἐδέσποζεν "He was lord (over)"

Genesis 18:25
משפט δίκαιον 'right, justice

Deuteronomy 32:4
משפט δικαιοσύνη 'righteousness, justice

Genesis 40:13
משפט θέμις 'that which is laid down or established, law.

Exodus 21:1
משפטים θέμιστες 'decrees, oracles
 
Ezra 6:1
Then Darius the king made a decree, and search was made in the house of the rolls, where the treasures were laid up in Babylon.

2. And there was found at Achmetha, in the palace that is in the province of the Medes, a roll, and therein was a record thus written

3. In the first year of Cyrus the king the same Cyrus the king made a decree concerning the house of God at Jerusalem, Let the house be builded, the place where they offered sacrifices, and let the foundations thereof be strongly laid; the height thereof threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof threescore cubits;


The decree of Cyrus, according to Ezra 6:2 was found on a roll, this would have been in cuneiform, not Aramaic.
Also, why does Ezra 6:1 say, "In Babylon" then the next verse reads "found at Achmetha", so which is it?

Ezra 6:1
באדין דריוש מלכא שם טעם ובקרו בבית ספריא די גנזיא מהחתין תמה בבבל

ἔπειτα באדין thereafter
Δαρεῖος דריוש Darius
ὁ βασιλεὺς מלכא The King
τίθησιν שם put in place
δόγμα טעם a decree / or πρᾶγμα
ἱστορέει ובקרו inquiry
ἐν οἴκῳ συγγράφων בבית ספריא House of books? / ἀναγραφῶν
πεῖ ἡ γάζα די גנזיא where the treasure
ἀποτίθηται מהחתין put away.
ἔνθα תמה there
ἐν βαβυλῶνι בבבל in Babylon

Josephus - The Antiquities of the Jews, 11.99 (translated by William Whiston)
Whereupon a book was found at Ecbatana, in the tower that was in Media, wherein was written as follows: “Cyrus the king, in the first year of his reign, commanded that the temple should be built in Jerusalem; and the altar in height threescore cubits, and its breadth of the same, with three edifices of polished stone, and one edifice of stone of their own country;

καὶ εὑρέθη ἐν Ἐκβατάνοις τῇ βάρει τῇ ἐν Μηδίᾳ βιβλίον, ἐν ᾧ τάδε ἦν ἀναγεγραμμένα: ‘ἐν τῷ πρώτῳ τῆς βασιλείας ἔτει Κῦρος ὁ βασιλεὺς ἐκέλευσεν τὸν ναὸν οἰκοδομηθῆναι τὸν ἐν Ἱεροσολύμοις καὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριον, ὕψος μὲν πηχῶν ἑξήκοντα εὖρος δὲ τῶν αὐτῶν, διὰ δόμων λιθίνων βία τε ξεστῶν τριῶν καὶ ξυλίνου δόμου ἑνὸς ἐγχωρίο

εὑρέθη found
ἐν Ἐκβατάνοις In Ecbatana
τῇ βάρει the city
ἐν Μηδίᾳ In Media
βιβλίον a book
ἐν τάδε ἀναγεγραμμένα In these records
ἐν τῷ πρώτῳ τῆς βασιλείας ἔτει In the first reigning year
Κῦρος ὁ βασιλεὺς Cyrus the King
ἐκέλευσεν τὸν ναὸν οἰκοδομηθῆναι commanded the temple to be built.
ἐν Ἱεροσολύμοις In Hierosolyma
καὶ τὸ θυσιαστήριον And the alter
ὕψος μὲν πηχῶν ἑξήκοντα height indeed cubits Sixty
εὖρος δὲ τῶν αὐτῶν width be of the same
διὰ δόμων λιθίνων βία every structure of strong stone
τε ξεστῶν τριῶν and three hewed (stones)
καὶ ξυλίνου δόμου ἑνὸς ἐγχωρίου. And one wooden structure (of the country?)

Ezra 6:4
With three rows of great stones, and a row of new timber:
נדבכין די־אבן גלל תלתא ונדבך די־אע חדת

διαδοχαί נדבכין reliefs/rows
λᾶας אבן stone
μεγάλη גלל great?
τρεῖς תלת three
καὶ διαδοχή ונדבך and relief/row
ξύλινος אע wooden?
εἷς חדת one?

Three great stone reliefs
One wooden relief.

1 Kings 6:36
And he built the inner court with three rows of hewed stone, and a row of cedar beams.
ויבן את־החצר הפנימית שלשה טורי גזית וטור כרתת ארזים

ἔδειμεν ויבן He built.
τόν ἕρκος את־החצר the fence/enclosure
ἐνώπια הפנימית the inner wall fronting those who enter a building or the side-walls of the entrance.
τρεῖς שלשה three
διαδοχαί טורי rows/reliefs
ξεστός גזית hewed.
καὶ διαδοχή וטור and row/relief
δόρατα כרתת beams? δοκός
ἀρκεύθινος
ארזים of juniper / κυπαρίσσινος , κέδρινος
 
Last edited:
Ezra 6:3
the height thereof threescore cubits
the breadth thereof threescore cubits
רומה אמין שתין פתיה אמין שתין

ἀειρόμενος רומה height
πλάτος פתיה width
ὠμίαν אמין Lt. cubitum the distance from the elbow to the end of the middle finger?
ἑξήκοντα שתין Sixty

Height - 60 Cubits
Width- 60 Cubits

If the height and width are the same, then the structure is a cube.
 
Back
Top