Doctrine of Unconditional Election

ReverendRV said:
Romans 9
Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac.k 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or badl—in order that God’s purposem in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d n 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e o

14 What then shall we say?p Is God unjust? Not at all!q 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f r

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.


Im getting tired, Ill have to let the others wrestle with you over this...

Pray for us...
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Nothing there about salvation

Read Malachi

Mal. 1:1–4 —ESV
“The oracle of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.¶ “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’””

The reference is to the posterity of each Jacob - Israel and Esau - Edom

Jacob - Israel was not all saved

and Esau - Edom we have no proof were all lost

Ok rest up
 
TomFL said:
Nothing there about salvation

Read Malachi

Mal. 1:1–4 —ESV
“The oracle of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.¶ “I have loved you,” says the LORD. But you say, “How have you loved us?” “Is not Esau Jacob’s brother?” declares the LORD. “Yet I have loved Jacob
but Esau I have hated. I have laid waste his hill country and left his heritage to jackals of the desert.”
If Edom says, “We are shattered but we will rebuild the ruins,” the LORD of hosts says, “They may build, but I will tear down, and they will be called ‘the wicked country,’ and ‘the people with whom the LORD is angry forever.’””

The reference is to the posterity of each Jacob - Israel and Esau - Edom

Jacob - Israel was not all saved

and Esau - Edom we have no proof were all lost

Ok rest up
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Do you know what election is when it is mentioned in the Bible?
 
Tercon said:
Do you know what election is when it is mentioned in the Bible?
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Yes

The mere mention of the term elect does not necessitate the idea of salvation

sometimes it is just the choice of servants

Israel was an elect nation
 
TomFL said:
Yes

The mere mention of the term elect does not necessitate the idea of salvation

sometimes it is just the choice of servants

Israel was an elect nation
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God elects us when He believes in and for us.

Follow..... If God is reality, then nothing can exist in reality until God believes it to exist in Him. So, when He believes in us, then He is also believing in Himself for us. Understand?
 
Tercon said:
God elects us when He believes in and for us.

Follow..... If God is reality, then nothing can exist in reality until God believes it to exist in Him. So, when He believes in us, then He is also believing in Himself for us. Understand?
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Again book chapter and verse

If you don't have this you have nothing but your own ideas
 
TomFL said:
Again book chapter and verse

If you don't have this you have nothing but your own ideas
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No, you just don't know the truth and reality of God. You must have something else, if you think that sin exists in the reality of God. And you cannot be a believer without believing God is reality.
 
travelah said:
Lord, where do I begin.... Calvinist election, Calvinist predestination, Calvinist regeneration, Calvinist notions of faith, Calvinist replacement theology ... it's a long list, man.
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You were talking about the Calvinist understanding of Election though. Do you have an example where that understanding isn't clear/is obscure?
 
Tercon said:
God elects us when He believes in and for us.

Follow..... If God is reality, then nothing can exist in reality until God believes it to exist in Him. So, when He believes in us, then He is also believing in Himself for us. Understand?
Click to expand...
You don't even know the meaning of faith so how on earth could you possibly understand the meaning of elect ?
 
ReverendRV said:
You were talking about the Calvinist understanding of Election though. Do you have an example where that understanding isn't clear/is obscure?
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If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you. Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss. Most of the body understand this, Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.
 
travelah said:
If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you. Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss. Most of the body understand this, Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.
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as a heads up you are interacting with Bruisermiller on the old forum under a new screen name.
 
Tercon said:
God elects us when He believes in and for us.

Follow..... If God is reality, then nothing can exist in reality until God believes it to exist in Him. So, when He believes in us, then He is also believing in Himself for us. Understand?
Click to expand...
Where in the world did you pull that little 'nugget' from?
 
travelah said:
If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you. Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss. Most of the body understand this, Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.
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Amen

No one was in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

i
 
travelah said:
If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you. Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss. Most of the body understand this, Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.
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You're not here to debate it, but to make unsubstantiated claims?

Me? I may have been here as long as you have...
 
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TomFL said:
Amen

No one was in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

i
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I would take issue in that with regard to God's omniscience, He knows all who are in Christ in a present tense, both past and future. We walk in a mortal and physical timeline and these things are difficult for us. In that sense election is individual as it affects you and I but is corporate in purpose, that being the body of Christ.
 
ReverendRV said:
You're not here to debate it?

Me? I may have been here as long as you have...
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No, you haven't. My time on Carm goes back to the previous century :)
That is irrelevant though. I debated these things incessantly over the years and have no patience for it now.
 
travelah said:
I would take issue in that with regard to God's omniscience, He knows all who are in Christ in a present tense, both past and future. We walk in a mortal and physical timeline and these things are difficult for us. In that sense election is individual as it affects you and I but is corporate in purpose, that being the body of Christ.
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He will know who will be but one is not in Christ until they believe according to verse 13

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

before that

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“¶ Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
 
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