If Jesus Is God Then He Is The Father

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

I didn't say or imply God the Father has a human nature. The second person of the Trinity does: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Phil 2:5-7

I'm not Oneness. What on earth is "bi-existent"? How does that strip Jesus? Again, in what way have Trinitarians, RCC included, "stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?

That doesn't say "someone other than himself". You do realize people speak about themselves in the third person. And, Jesus is known to do that a lot.

I still hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches.

The 2nd person is God and God has a human nature?

The 2nd person is God, yet, the 2nd person isn't the 1st person who is also God. The 1st person doesn't have a human nature. The second person does have a human nature. The word God can just be talking about the 1st person, but God can be used to refer to the what of God. When a Trinitarian says the 2nd person is God, we are not saying Jesus is the Father; we are saying the 2nd person is ontologically the same God as the 1st person.

What verse is that(God's human nature) found in?
Or, the 2nd person is technically not qualified as God, making him human?

The answer to this question depends on what you mean by "God". If you mean the Father, no one is saying the Father has a human nature. If you mean the being of God, no one is saying God's being has a human nature. If you mean Jesus, the 2nd person who is God, this 2nd person has a human nature, and that's taught in passages like Philippians 2:6-7.

God Bless

 

[101G]

Of course Jesus is God because his God made him God...

the u are into polytheism, u have two Gods.

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

O God is the Definite article used, meaning the same one PERSON, not two Gods. but u have no clue as HOW he is the same ONE God. hint! understand, KNOW the difference between G243 Allos, and G2087 heteros.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

thy God? ok, since u cannot understand the very next verse, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"
so this God who is "Lord" laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, correct? let's check the record, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

well now truther, it seem someone is lying, or the God "Lord" and the God "LORD" all cap is the SAME ONE PERSON. I'm not a betting man, bit I bet the "Lord" who is God is the SAME ONE PERSON, who is the "LORD" that is God...(smile).... LOL, LOL, LOL, do u want to bet differently.... YIKES! .... thought so. IT'S THE SAME ONE PERSON WHO IS THE SAME ONE GOD.

see how easy it is to reprove and correct your NONESENSE.

Does Jesus, right now in heaven, have a God or not?

NO, see above. ............... will u please get out of polytheism

 

[101G]

All three persons are attributed as being the one who made all things. Remember 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." How it all works out, what exactly is implied by these different prepositions,

1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord."1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

 

[Truther]

The 2nd person is God, yet, the 2nd person isn't the 1st person who is also God. The 1st person doesn't have a human nature. The second person does have a human nature. The word God can just be talking about the 1st person, but God can be used to refer to the what of God. When a Trinitarian says the 2nd person is God, we are not saying Jesus is the Father; we are saying the 2nd person is ontologically the same God as the 1st person.



The answer to this question depends on what you mean by "God". If you mean the Father, no one is saying the Father has a human nature. If you mean the being of God, no one is saying God's being has a human nature. If you mean Jesus, the 2nd person who is God, this 2nd person has a human nature, and that's taught in passages like Philippians 2:6-7.

God Bless

Phil 2 DOES NOT say God took on a "human nature".

It says in detail how a man was made a true man(not a divine man).

This is how the RCC twisted it before incarnationists got traction way before you were born.

 

[Truther]

the u are into polytheism, u have two Gods.

O God is the Definite article used, meaning the same one PERSON, not two Gods. but u have no clue as HOW he is the same ONE God. hint! understand, KNOW the difference between G243 Allos, and G2087 heteros.

thy God? ok, since u cannot understand the very next verse, Hebrews 1:10 "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:"
so this God who is "Lord" laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, correct? let's check the record, Zechariah 12:1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

well now truther, it seem someone is lying, or the God "Lord" and the God "LORD" all cap is the SAME ONE PERSON. I'm not a betting man, bit I bet the "Lord" who is God is the SAME ONE PERSON, who is the "LORD" that is God...(smile).... LOL, LOL, LOL, do u want to bet differently.... YIKES! .... thought so. IT'S THE SAME ONE PERSON WHO IS THE SAME ONE GOD.

see how easy it is to reprove and correct your NONESENSE.

NO, see above. ............... will u please get out of polytheism

Hebrews says this too...

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


So, you say God became a man?

This means, God became the seed of Abraham...LOL.

 

[101G]

Phil 2 DOES NOT say God took on a "human nature".

It says in detail how a man was made a true man(not a divine man).

This is how the RCC twisted it before incarnationists got traction way before you were born.

T, are u serious Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
and in Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

Hebrews says this too...

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.


So, you say God became a man?

This means, God became the seed of Abraham...LOL.

BY FAITH, see ABOVE ,,,,

 

[101G]

T, do u understand the Seed of Abraham by Faith?

 

[Truther]

T, are u serious Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
and in Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

BY FAITH, see ABOVE ,,,,

Jesus was made the seed of Abraham by faith?

Abraham was Jesus' spiritual father?

Or, was Abraham Jesus' biological father(via seed of Abraham)?

You better read your Bible.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

All three persons are attributed as being the one who made all things. Remember 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." How it all works out, what exactly is implied by these different prepositions, we don't know. Yet, John 14:16-17 clearly distinguishes them personally by saying "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." In light of both, one must conclude that in some sense they are one and in another they are multiple. Given passages like John 14:16-17, we attribute plurality to personhood, given the personal pronouns. Given passage like Deuteronomy 6:4, we attribute their singularity to ontology. Beyond that, the figuring out how this works out, we leave as Scripture leaves it, in mystery.

1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord."1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

Yes, plurality and singularity combined. Three persons who are all the same one and only God. Did you notice, one verse for each person: v4 the Holy Spirit, v5 Jesus, v6 the Father. Quoting other passages that only bolster my position isn't really helping your case.

God Bless

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

The 2nd person is God, yet, the 2nd person isn't the 1st person who is also God. The 1st person doesn't have a human nature. The second person does have a human nature. The word God can just be talking about the 1st person, but God can be used to refer to the what of God. When a Trinitarian says the 2nd person is God, we are not saying Jesus is the Father; we are saying the 2nd person is ontologically the same God as the 1st person.

The answer to this question depends on what you mean by "God". If you mean the Father, no one is saying the Father has a human nature. If you mean the being of God, no one is saying God's being has a human nature. If you mean Jesus, the 2nd person who is God, this 2nd person has a human nature, and that's taught in passages like Philippians 2:6-7.

Phil 2 DOES NOT say God took on a "human nature".

Correct, it says Jesus Christ was God by nature and equal to God the Father, before his incarnation. It then says Jesus Christ took on a human nature.

It says in detail how a man was made a true man(not a divine man).

To be precise, It says in detail how Jesus was God and how Jesus was made a true man by making "himself of no reputation", or by emptying himself. No one is talking about "a divine man". That's an ancient heresy condemned by all trinitarians for like 1800 years.

This is how the RCC twisted it before incarnationists got traction way before you were born.

Another accusation. These would be meaningful if I had any reason whatsoever to think them valid. Ahistorical assertions like this deserve to be ignored.

God Bless

 

[101G]

Jesus was made the seed of Abraham by faith?

Abraham was Jesus' spiritual father?

Or, was Abraham Jesus' biological father(via seed of Abraham)?

You better read your Bible.

how IGNORANT, Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." do you believe that? if so, Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." Galatians 3:23 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." Galatians 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:25 "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Truther, this is basic Christianity 101, you should have known this ....... if you been born again ...... YIKES!.

 

[101G]

ATTENTION all Oneness, and Others.
John 3:1 "There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:" John 3:2 "The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." John 3:3 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." John 3:4 "Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?" John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:7 "Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." John 3:9 "Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?" John 3:10 "Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" John 3:11 "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." John 3:12 "If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?" John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:14 "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:"

Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?" Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

101G is sounding, see above, don't stay in disbelief .... have FAITH.....

 

[101G]

Yes, plurality and singularity combined. Three persons who are all the same one and only God. Did you notice, one verse for each person: v4 the Holy Spirit, v5 Jesus, v6 the Father. Quoting other passages that only bolster my position isn't really helping your case.

God Bless

Now may God bless YOU, LISTEN and LEARN CAREFULLY.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty only ONE PERSON.

Revelation 1:4-6 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”.

"from him", this is a single person. who holds the titles mention. and it did not say from "him" the Seven Spirits either. but it did say and from Jesus Christ, which is a "him". the letter is from only one and only "ONE" person. lets see it clearly,

the Lord Jesus, who is the Almighty. holds the Title God. Here is where the other Persons who suppose to be in the Godhead is vetted by scripture or not. Lets follow the bible, not our beliefs.

John is saying that the letter is from…. “him”, one person. And he identifies who this one person is,

A. Him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come”.
B. the same Him, “the seven Spirits”.
C. the same Him, “the faithful witness”, Jesus the Christ.

John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John, who he is. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention above. this changes the whole dynamic of the book as we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, (verse 4), then one will have to re-consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord.

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty.

Evidence #3. Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned".

So clearly we see that him, “which art, and wast, and art to come“, is the Lord God Almighty. THIS IS JESUS. ONE PERSON DOWN 2 TO GO

#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also?

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”.

Evidence #2. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. BINGO, “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS. for he stood/resurrected.

Evidence #3. the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS. WHO IS THE "FIRST" & THE "LASRST" WHO IS THE, "WHICH IS, WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME".

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty.
Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the “First & Last?”, the Lord God Almighty. BINGO, that confirm who is the Lord God Almighty is, JESUS. THIS IS JESUS, TWO PERSON DOWN 1 TO GO

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, a give me. The Lord Jesus. ALL THREE TITLES IS THE SAME ONE PERSON

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, and God is a Spirit (John 4:24a). so no Modalism here. what's not here is three separate and distinct persons. THIS IS NOT 101G, BUT THE BIBLE.

When John said "FROM HIM", one person in verse 4, it included all three titles of the ONE PERSON JESUS.

many have said the "Father" is the" which is, and which was, and which is to come"
and many have said the "Seven Spirits" is the "Holy Spirit.
and the "Faithful Witness" is the Son.

they got only ONE right, because all the title belongs to the same one person. JESUS.

I hope you got this...

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Now may God bless YOU, LISTEN and LEARN CAREFULLY.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty only ONE PERSON.

Why did you say "only one person" in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty only ONE PERSON." You literally started this argument with your conclusion and then read it into countless passages. I'm not even disagreeing with your interpretations per se. The real issue is the theological implications you're taking. Yes, Jesus Christ is the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty, and Jesus is only one person. Yes, the Revelation is from Jesus. etc. How does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Logically, the former doesn't necessarily imply the later. Given the passages I've already shared, which you left untouched, even if your argument is sound, all you would be doing is arguing against the authority of Scripture.

Revelation 1:4-6 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood”.

"from him", this is a single person. who holds the titles mention. and it did not say from "him" the Seven Spirits either. but it did say and from Jesus Christ, which is a "him". the letter is from only one and only "ONE" person. lets see it clearly,

the Lord Jesus, who is the Almighty. holds the Title God. Here is where the other Persons who suppose to be in the Godhead is vetted by scripture or not. Lets follow the bible, not our beliefs.

Amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty?

John is saying that the letter is from…. “him”, one person. And he identifies who this one person is,

A. Him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come”.
B. the same Him, “the seven Spirits”.
C. the same Him, “the faithful witness”, Jesus the Christ.

John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John, who he is. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention above. this changes the whole dynamic of the book as we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, (verse 4), then one will have to re-consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

Amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty?

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord.

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty.

Evidence #3. Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned".

So clearly we see that him, “which art, and wast, and art to come“, is the Lord God Almighty. THIS IS JESUS. ONE PERSON DOWN 2 TO GO

Amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty?

#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also?

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”.

Evidence #2. Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. BINGO, “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS. for he stood/resurrected.

Evidence #3. the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS. WHO IS THE "FIRST" & THE "LASRST" WHO IS THE, "WHICH IS, WHICH WAS, AND WHICH IS TO COME".

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty.
Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the “First & Last?”, the Lord God Almighty. BINGO, that confirm who is the Lord God Almighty is, JESUS. THIS IS JESUS, TWO PERSON DOWN 1 TO GO

Again amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Do you think I deny that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega?

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, a give me. The Lord Jesus. ALL THREE TITLES IS THE SAME ONE PERSON

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, and God is a Spirit (John 4:24a). so no Modalism here. what's not here is three separate and distinct persons. THIS IS NOT 101G, BUT THE BIBLE.

You do know I am not a Modalist? I would literally use the same argument the same way when arguing with Arians. And, I never said three separate and distinct persons because I don't believe they are separate. Ignoring that, I never said or implied Revelation is teaching three distinct persons in the passages you quoted. In fact, I agree with you that's not what these passages teach, but they don't teach the opposite either. Again, you still need to deal with passages like John 1:1, John 14:16-17 and John 17:5–"the Word was with God", "I will ask the Father...", "the glory that I had with you before the world existed." This is not Doctrines of Grace Bapt, but the Bible.

When John said "FROM HIM", one person in verse 4, it included all three titles of the ONE PERSON JESUS.

many have said the "Father" is the" which is, and which was, and which is to come"
and many have said the "Seven Spirits" is the "Holy Spirit.
and the "Faithful Witness" is the Son.

they got only ONE right, because all the title belongs to the same one person. JESUS.

I hope you got this...

You do realize that "God the Father" is never applied to Jesus anywhere in the NT, Revelation included. Yes, all sorts of other titles are applied to Jesus, just not that one. Likewise, Relevation 3:1 says "he that hath the seven Spirits of God" not "he that is the seven Spirits of God". Whatever "the seven Spirits of God" means, it quite a stretch to think "he that hath the seven Spirits of God" means Jesus is the Holy Spirit, aka the seven Spirits of God.

Yes, I read your whole post. You made a lot of great points. You just didn't argue against Trinitarianism.

God Bless

 

[101G]

Why did you say "only one person" in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty only ONE PERSON." You literally started this argument with your conclusion and then read it into countless passages. I'm not even disagreeing with your interpretations per se. The real issue is the theological implications you're taking. Yes, Jesus Christ is the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty, and Jesus is only one person. Yes, the Revelation is from Jesus. etc. How does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Logically, the former doesn't necessarily imply the later. Given the passages I've already shared, which you left untouched, even if your argument is sound, all you would be doing is arguing against the authority of Scripture.

there is only "one" almighty ...... JESSUS,

Amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty?

because it doesn't

Again amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Do you think I deny that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega?

A. see above. B. what I think is of no importance,

You do know I am not a Modalist?

I didn't say u were... GOOD.

Again, you still need to deal with passages like John 1:1, John 14:16-17 and John 17:5–"the Word was with God", "I will ask the Father...", "the glory that I had with you before the world existed." This is not Doctrines of Grace Bapt, but the Bible.

sure, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." this look or seems like two Persons, correct. well NO, only ONE PERSON Diversified, or Equally Shared. LET THE BIBLE TEACH U AND NOT 101G.

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
the "WITH" here as in John 1:1 seem to indicate two persons, THE FIRST "WITH" THE LAST, correct, as with this verse. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." again, look and sound like two persons, correct..... well let's see if this is TRUE. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, it's the same one PERSON, just as in John 1:1c .... "and the Word was God". the SAME "ONE" person, only Shared equally, or in a Diversified STATE of the ECHAD, as (Ordinal First/Father, and Ordinal Last/Son). see how the bible teach us? all our answers are right in his WORD. just search it out and one can RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

You do realize that "God the Father" is never applied to Jesus anywhere in the NT

see John 1:1 above.

Revelation included

we beg to differ. question, WHO sent his angel to John? see Revelation 1:1. the answer comes from the angel himself. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." so, the Lord God sent him correct. so, who is the Lord God? let's check the record. Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." the Son was sent correct.... by the Lord God and his Spirit, (again sound like two persons, yet 3). many and I mean Many, including scholars told me that the Lord God in Revelation 22:6 OF the holy prophets, who sent his angel was the Father. even the JW have put the Name Jehovah in place of the term Lord God.

let's see if they are correct, shall we... LISTEN and LEARN, remember the angel said, the Lord God sent him, correct, and many say the Lord God is the Father, let's here what God say in his Word. in the same book, Revelation, and in the same Chapter, 22, now verse 16. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Uh O, the Lord God of the ...... holy prophets is JESUS, meaning he is FATHER, and SON. Uh O! ...... YIKES! the people at the watchtower must have been asleep at the wheel to make a mistake like that, by putting the name Jehovah in place of Lord God, when just a few verse later in the same chapter states it was JESUS who is the Lord God...... what an embarrassment for them, and us who believed that it was some other [person} called the Father, when in fact it is JESUS. AGAIN, SEE HOW THEW BIBLE TEACH US?

Yes, I read your whole post. You made a lot of great points. You just didn't argue against Trinitarianism

verse 4 of chapter 1 made it cleare, as well as verse 1 of chapter 1. only one person there. as swell as chapter 4 & 5 only one person. he who sits on the throne is the same one-person who stand before it.

Man Oh man, the bible is a GREAT TEACHER, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT.

hope this helped.
stay blessed.

 

[Truther]

Correct, it says Jesus Christ was God by nature and equal to God the Father, before his incarnation. It then says Jesus Christ took on a human nature.



To be precise, It says in detail how Jesus was God and how Jesus was made a true man by making "himself of no reputation", or by emptying himself. No one is talking about "a divine man". That's an ancient heresy condemned by all trinitarians for like 1800 years.



Another accusation. These would be meaningful if I had any reason whatsoever to think them valid. Ahistorical assertions like this deserve to be ignored.

God Bless

Phil 2 says Jesus was God by nature?

Where?

It looks like it says he was a natural man.

Amazing what incarnationists read into the scripture.

 

[Truther]

how IGNORANT, Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." do you believe that? if so, Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." Galatians 3:23 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." Galatians 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." Galatians 3:25 "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Truther, this is basic Christianity 101, you should have known this ....... if you been born again ...... YIKES!.

So, you are saying Jesus was not biologically Abraham's decendant?

Oneness teaches that Jesus was adopted into the faith of his spiritual father, Abraham?

Oh, that is just your opinion?

 

[101G]

Phil 2 says Jesus was God by nature?

Where?

Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" BEING is present tense. you're reproved.

Amazing what incarnationists read into the scripture.

see above, andtry READIG the Bible with the Holy Spirit sometimes.....

So, you are saying Jesus was not biologically Abraham's decendant?

yes, and as a matter of fact no man biological descendant. scripture, Hebrews 7:3 "Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually." BINGO. you're corrected, and reproved.

he is without Mother, or Father, biologically, .... hello..... I just Love this.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Why did you say "only one person" in "The Revelation of Jesus Christ as the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty only ONE PERSON." You literally started this argument with your conclusion and then read it into countless passages. I'm not even disagreeing with your interpretations per se. The real issue is the theological implications you're taking. Yes, Jesus Christ is the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty, and Jesus is only one person. Yes, the Revelation is from Jesus. etc. How does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Logically, the former doesn't necessarily imply the later. Given the passages I've already shared, which you left untouched, even if your argument is sound, all you would be doing is arguing against the authority of Scripture.

there is only "one" almighty ...... JESSUS,

Amen. And?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty?

because it doesn't

If it doesn't, what's your point? Why are you quoting these passages?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Again amen, how does that imply there are not other persons who are also the I AM THAT I AM, GOD Almighty? Do you think I deny that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega?

A. see above. B. what I think is of no importance,

You thoughts about my position are what is motivating you to respond. I don't understand what you think I got wrong.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Again, you still need to deal with passages like John 1:1, John 14:16-17 and John 17:5–"the Word was with God", "I will ask the Father...", "the glory that I had with you before the world existed." This is not Doctrines of Grace Bapt, but the Bible.

sure, John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." this look or seems like two Persons, correct. well NO, only ONE PERSON Diversified, or Equally Shared. LET THE BIBLE TEACH U AND NOT 101G.

Equally shared? Shared by who? You're arguing like a Trinitarian while denying the use of the word person. I'm cool with that. Use whatever phrases you want to describe what Scripture teaches, as long as they are faithful to Scripture.

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."
the "WITH" here as in John 1:1 seem to indicate two persons, THE FIRST "WITH" THE LAST, correct, as with this verse.

I would never abuse Scripture like this. I don't see this passage as pointing to two persons in the Trinity.

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." again, look and sound like two persons, correct..... well let's see if this is TRUE. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first,I also am the last." BINGO, it's the same one PERSON, just as in John 1:1c .... "and the Word was God". the SAME "ONE" person, only Shared equally, or in a Diversified STATE of the ECHAD, as (Ordinal First/Father, and Ordinal Last/Son). see how the bible teach us? all our answers are right in his WORD. just search it out and one can RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

What? How does a verse four chapters later imply they are the same person? 44:6 has two say "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.", and 48:12 just has one person say "I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." And? Literally, nothing you quoted form Isaiah has helped your case at all.

With respect to John 1:1, "the Word was with God" teaches the Word and the God are two. "The Word was God" teaches us that they are one. Both/and, not either or. I'm going with both/and.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
You do realize that "God the Father" is never applied to Jesus anywhere in the NT

see John 1:1 above.

John 1:1 does not use the title "God the Father".

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Revelation included

we beg to differ. question, WHO sent his angel to John? see Revelation 1:1. the answer comes from the angel himself. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." so, the Lord God sent him correct. so, who is the Lord God? let's check the record. Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me." the Son was sent correct.... by the Lord God and his Spirit, (again sound like two persons, yet 3). many and I mean Many, including scholars told me that the Lord God in Revelation 22:6 OF the holy prophets, who sent his angel was the Father. even the JW have put the Name Jehovah in place of the term Lord God.

But, it doesn't use the title "God the Father" for Jesus; which was my entire point. Jesus is "the Lord God", YHWH/Jehovah. And, God the Father is "the Lord God", YHWH/Jehovah. Amen and amen. Jesus is God the Father. Sorry, you lost me there. They are consistently distinguished as not being the same person in the NT. Both are the Lord God because they are the same God while still being distinct. And, no jumping back and forth all over Scripture is going to change that.

let's see if they are correct, shall we... LISTEN and LEARN, remember the angel said, the Lord God sent him, correct, and many say the Lord God is the Father, let's here what God say in his Word. in the same book, Revelation, and in the same Chapter, 22, now verse 16. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Just like how two in Isaiah 44:6 can say "I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.", two are the Lord God without being the same person. Here's my main point, just because they share a title doesn't make the same person.

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Yes, I read your whole post. You made a lot of great points. You just didn't argue against Trinitarianism

verse 4 of chapter 1 made it cleare, as well as verse 1 of chapter 1. only one person there. as swell as chapter 4 & 5 only one person. he who sits on the throne is the same one-person who stand before it.

Man Oh man, the bible is a GREAT TEACHER, JESUS, THE HOLY SPIRIT.

None say "only one person there". In fact, Revelation 1:1 says "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place." Jesus is the angel/messenger that God sent to deliver this revelation, and Jesus likewise sent another angel at other times in the book of Revelation.

God Bless

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Correct, it says Jesus Christ was God by nature and equal to God the Father, before his incarnation. It then says Jesus Christ took on a human nature.

To be precise, It says in detail how Jesus was God and how Jesus was made a true man by making "himself of no reputation", or by emptying himself. No one is talking about "a divine man". That's an ancient heresy condemned by all trinitarians for like 1800 years.

Another accusation. These would be meaningful if I had any reason whatsoever to think them valid. Ahistorical assertions like this deserve to be ignored.

Phil 2 says Jesus was God by nature?
Where?

That's literally what "who being in form(μορφῇ) God" means when said word is contrasted with fashion(σχήματι). μορφῇ has a formal definition, and a generic one. Generically, it refers to the outward shape of something. Formally, it refers to the core substance of what something is. In formal language, when μορφῇ and σχήματι are paired, they are used to discuss the core of what something(μορφῇ) is as opposed the outward appearance(σχήματι) of something. In fact, the NIV translates the passage "Who, being in very nature God". And guess what, all the Greek scholars agree that it is a valid well justified translation of the passage.

It looks like it says he was a natural man.

The text says "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:", and you see this as being "a natural man"? Wow, talk about the lengths one will go to to justify their opinions.

Amazing what incarnationists read into the scripture.

I'm still holding your beer on the "It looks like it says he was a natural man." statement. You put us to shame in the reading things into Scripture department.

God Bless