Lazarus ....!

Reformedguy said:
NOWHERE in scripture is election said to be conditional.
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When you look at 2 Th 2:13, are you saying that our election is not conditional on our "belief of the truth"? In other words, are you saying that the elect can be non-believers? You possess the free will to believe whatever you want.
 
Synergy said:
When you look at 2 Th 2:13, are you saying that our election is not conditional on our "belief of the truth"? In other words, are you saying that the elect can be non-believers? You possess the free will to believe whatever you want.
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That's not what it says is it? This is called seeing what you want yo see
 
Synergy said:
I'm not ignoring anything including the fact that our election is conditional on our "belief of the truth". How about you? Will you continue to ignore that fact?
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That is not a Fact. Our Justification depends on our Belief in the Truth; our Election doesn't depend on our Will, but on God...
 
ReverendRV said:
That is not a Fact. Our Justification depends on our Belief in the Truth; our Election doesn't depend on our Will, but on God...
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You're referring to instances where our salvation is not a factor. That's a whole different topic. Here we're talking about the relationship between election and salvation. 2 Th 2:13 makes it clear that our election is through our belief of the truth.
 
Synergy said:
You're referring to instances where our salvation is not a factor. That's a whole different topic. Here we're talking about the relationship between election and salvation. 2 Th 2:13 makes it clear that our election is through our belief of the truth.
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It's not clear. Your simply making a claim you will not be able to substantiate
 
Synergy said:
You're referring to instances where our salvation is not a factor. That's a whole different topic. Here we're talking about the relationship between election and salvation. 2 Th 2:13 makes it clear that our election is through our belief of the truth.
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Well, at least you admitted they are differing Topics...

That's a start. 2 Thess 2:13 mentions Election to Salvation "through" the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit and belief in the Truth. It doesn't say we are Chosen "because of" our Belief in the Truth...

I'm glad you like the Verse; but do you like All Scripture? When the Holy Spirit, who cannot Lie, says we're not Chosen because of our Will; we develop a Systematic Theology to explain the Truth of both Verses. After all, isn't Theology a Synergistic rendering of All Scripture?

Romans 9:16, NIV: It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
 
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ReverendRV said:
Well, at least you admitted they are differing Topics...

That's a start. 2 Thess 2:13 mentions Election to Salvation "through" the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit and belief in the Truth. It doesn't say we are Chosen "because of" our Belief in the Truth...
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Talk to the person who you're quoting that said "because of".
ReverendRV said:
I'm glad you like the Verse; but do you like All Scripture? When the Holy Spirit, who cannot Lie, says we're not Chosen because of our Will; we develop a Systematic Theology to explain the Truth of both Verses...

Romans 9:16, NIV: It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
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Again, that's a whole different topic. I would be more than happy to discuss it but now back to the topic being discussed: do you believe that our election to salvation is through our belief of the truth that makes that election conditional?
 
Synergy said:
Talk to the person who you're quoting that said "because of".

Again, that's a whole different topic. I would be more than happy to discuss it but now back to the topic being discussed: do you believe that our election to salvation is through our belief of the truth that makes that election conditional?
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Yes, that's what the Verse says; but we're not Elect according to our Will...

Fair enough. Your acknowledging there is a difference, is the best that can be achieved for now. Just doing a little watering; y'all have fun...
 
Reformedguy said:
Through, not because of. Belief is the means, not the cause.
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His Verse would be a great Verse, and a foolproof Verse; if it were the only Verse in the Bible...

This is what is really going on here at CARM. Everyone seems to ignore All Scripture. A true Sola Scripturist would be a notorious middle man...
 
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ReverendRV said:
His Verse would be a great Verse, and a foolproof Verse; if it were the only Verse in the Bible...

This is what is really going on here at CARM. Everyone seems to ignore All Scripture. A true Sola Scripturist would be a notorious middle man...
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The problem is Rev election is not mentioned in said text. God is doing the choosing who to save and the means in which He will accomplish our salvation. "through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth". Where is mans part in the verse? It's all about what God does.
 
Reformedguy said:
The problem is Rev election is not mentioned in said text. God is doing the choosing who to save and the means in which He will accomplish our salvation. "through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth". Where is mans part in the verse? It's all about what God does.
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I haven't studied the Verse well yet, but the impression I got from it is that God's Choice mentioned in the Verse is more about our Justification than it is about our Election. God's Choice to Justify us; let's ask the Verse just what was God Choosing to do, instead of assuming it...

I'll study to show myself approved. One thing for sure though, we're not Elect according to our Will...
 
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