Jesus Is The Father

[SeventhDay]

It was the Word (God) that became flesh....AKA, the Son of man. (fully God, fully man)....who died on the cross.

No the son of man was not a God-man! Please get that concept out of your thinking! Are you a God man? If you are not, then neither is the son of man, but Jesus is God.

God was manifest in the son of man because the Son of God took on a human form, yet it does not make the Son of God a God-man! Now, the Spirit of God in the son of man is the Father and Son together! Father and Son are never separated. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and this is always the case. No God-man went to the cross but the son of man! You are stuck on God's sign which is the son of man instead of who the son of man points to and it is not himself!

God bless you.

 

[101G]

SeventhDay, check out this article. Let me know you think about it. It's long and has substance that you will have to think about. It might help you understand the distinctions of God (Father, Son, and Spirit) are not roles like in a play. https://www.onenesspentecostal.com/ugstsymposium.htm

I read the article u gave a link to, and the writer there is just as lost as the one's he is writing to. and here is what I'm saying about the writer. he said,

The Data​

To convey a sense of the magnitude of the problem confronting us, consider this small sampling of passages in which a clear distinction is made between the Father, Son, and Spirit: In the Great Commission, Jesus said all power was given to Him in heaven and in earth (Matthew 28:18). To be given something implies a distinction between one who gives and one who receives, and thus a distinction between Jesus and the one who gave Him all power.

here is what he, the writer fails to understand. he the Lord Jesus, "GOD", the Ordinal Last, (the Son), the Equal Share of God in flesh laid down his powers, invested in the Ordinal First, (the Father). scripture support, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
here in verse 7, God, Jesus, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') HIMSELF, ,
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize.

so what is his "POWERS" he laid down just as he did with his LIFE, natural life that is .... BLOOD. but with his Powers, after his resurrection, all powers was given unto him because it was his in the First place to lay down. listen and learn, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

well what Glory did he have before the world was? answer. "ALL POWER". well now, if he had it before he laid it down in order to REDEEM, and SAVE mankind, is it not his? thank u.

understand, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), is God in the ECHAD, or the Equal Share as the Greek say, G243 Allos. use Vines Dictionary to look up G243 Allos/ANOTHER.

the Bible is so simple when as God by his holy apostle said, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

well, God, the Holy Spirit, JESES, the Great Teacher show it unto me in Philippians 2:6 & 7, and John 17:5.

was that not easy to understand?

 

[SeventhDay]

I read the article u gave a link to, and the writer there is just as lost as the one's he is writing to. and here is what I'm saying about the writer. he said,

The Data​

To convey a sense of the magnitude of the problem confronting us, consider this small sampling of passages in which a clear distinction is made between the Father, Son, and Spirit: In the Great Commission, Jesus said all power was given to Him in heaven and in earth (Matthew 28:18). To be given something implies a distinction between one who gives and one who receives, and thus a distinction between Jesus and the one who gave Him all power.

here is what he, the writer fails to understand. he the Lord Jesus, "GOD", the Ordinal Last, (the Son), the Equal Share of God in flesh laid down his powers, invested in the Ordinal First, (the Father). scripture support, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:"
here in verse 7, God, Jesus, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') HIMSELF, ,
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize.

so what is his "POWERS" he laid down just as he did with his LIFE, natural life that is .... BLOOD. but with his Powers, after his resurrection, all powers was given unto him because it was his in the First place to lay down. listen and learn, John 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."

well what Glory did he have before the world was? answer. "ALL POWER". well now, if he had it before he laid it down in order to REDEEM, and SAVE mankind, is it not his? thank u.

understand, the Ordinal Last, (the Son), is God in the ECHAD, or the Equal Share as the Greek say, G243 Allos. use Vines Dictionary to look up G243 Allos/ANOTHER.

the Bible is so simple when as God by his holy apostle said, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."

well, God, the Holy Spirit, JESES, the Great Teacher show it unto me in Philippians 2:6 & 7, and John 17:5.

was that not easy to understand?

The only power the Son of God laid down was all of God that was in him which is the Father and that is in his role as the son of man but he is always in the Father and the Father is in him and thus God was manifest in the son of man. It is the son of man who learning who he was humbled himself because as a man he is a man not God. It is the son of man that revealed the Father and Son in a unified relationship to us and that was though the Spirit of God that was in him. To teach that the son of man is God and man is blasphemy to the core! A man is a man and God is God. No need to change definitions and corrupt the Word of God. The term God-man is pagan and demonic! We need to understand why God has personal roles in himself and what God creating really means. What is complete in God is not what is created which is a construct out of something that is already complete. God is complete eternally in the Now and has no beginning and no end and that applies to all that are complete in God and God is complete in them. Creation has nothing to do with that but is a construct and a sign pointing to God just like the son of man who is the first born of creation. We need to understand what a sign is for because Jesus is a sign and when we understand what it points to and identify with what it points to then the sign and construct is put away. We need to understand what the law of circularity is because it has to deal with creation as a construct because there is nothing new in God who is complete. Yet creation is based upon new beginnings to contrast God's glory and to showcase God's glory as the son of man did.

Ecc 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Ecc 1:5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.

Ecc 1:6 The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

Ecc 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

Ecc 1:8 All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Ecc 1:10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

Ecc 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

God bless you.

 

[101G]

The only power the Son of God laid down was all of God that was in him which is the Father and that is in his role as the son of man but he is always in the Father and the Father is in him and thus God was manifest in the son of man.

understand, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
FORM here is the NATURE, the Nature is the Same only his Authority/powers he laid down.

hope that helped.

and God bless you also.

 

[SeventhDay]

understand, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
FORM here is the NATURE, the Nature is the Same only his Authority/powers he laid down.

hope that helped.

and God bless you also.

The nature is the Spirit of God in a unified Father and Son relationship manifest in the son of man and there is power and authority in that nature. That nature is Love and must include Father and Son which is what the son of man pointed to:

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

God bless you.

 

[101G]

The nature is the Spirit of God in a unified Father and Son relationship manifest in the son of man and there is power and authority in that nature. That nature is Love and must include Father and Son which is what the son of man pointed to:

A characteristic is not the Nature of God. his Nature is Spirit. now the characteristics "of" that Nature/Spirit is concretely personified is LOVE.

as to the "unified Father and Son relationship manifest in the son of man". the Son of Man is Spirit, which came from heaven. the Son of God is Flesh which came out of Mary.
the unified Father and Son relationship is in Ordinal designations of First and Last, First = Father in TIME, ORDER, PLACE, or RANK. and Last=Son, in TIME, ORDER, PLACE, or RANK. as 1 John 1 you have stated.

be blessed,
PICJAG, 101G.

 

[CrowCross]

No the son of man was not a God-man! Please get that concept out of your thinking! Are you a God man? If you are not, then neither is the son of man, but Jesus is God.

God was manifest in the son of man because the Son of God took on a human form, yet it does not make the Son of God a God-man! Now, the Spirit of God in the son of man is the Father and Son together! Father and Son are never separated. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father and this is always the case. No God-man went to the cross but the son of man! You are stuck on God's sign which is the son of man instead of who the son of man points to and it is not himself!

God bless you.

You're following a false Christ.

 

[CrowCross]

No the son of man was not a God-man! Please get that concept out of your thinking!

John 1 and Phil 2 say, you're wrong. You do understand that?

Are you a God man?

Absolutely not. Now, Jesus was. Biblical fact.

If you are not, then neither is the son of man, but Jesus is God.

I fail to see your flawed logic.

A mere man could not pay for the sins of the world and their eternal consequences.

God was manifest in the son of man because the Son of God took on a human form,

The Word who WAS God and WITH God, became flesh.

yet it does not make the Son of God a God-man! Now, the Spirit of God in the son of man is the Father and Son together! Father and Son are never separated.

Bravo Sierra....There is the example of the baptism as well as the Mt. of Transfiguration. How soon you forget.

The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father

You left out the Holy Spirit.

and this is always the case. No God-man went to the cross but the son of man! You are stuck on God's sign which is the son of man instead of who the son of man points to and it is not himself!

How did Mary become pregnant? Did Joseph sneak in the back window one night?

God bless you.

 

[101G]

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Let's Take this ONE step at a time/
Step #1. GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

this definition is in the plural, but we ask, is this plurality in persons? answer ... NO, for the definition states [plural of H433] ok, let's see what H433 says.

H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

so, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is a single Person, and H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the plural of H433. the question is this, is H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') a plural of H433 in PERSONS or in NATURE.

when one can RIGHTLY DIVIDE CORRECTLY then one can KNOW and UNDERSTAND the Godhead. all other is ..... NONESENSE.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Jesus Is The Father

Here are reasons why Jesus is the Father. Put on your thinking cap!

1)Jesus is God and God is the Father and one and only Lord God.

The Father is God, and God is used as a title referring to the Father. But, nothing in Scripture communicates three, The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, can't all be the same God while not being each other. There is no reason to read every "is" as an equals sign.

Most of the rest of your "reasons" follow the same logical flaw. In light of this, I will skip commenting on them.

7) Jesus is the Word and the Word was God therefore Jesus is the Father

Also, "the Word was with God." Therefore, the Word isn't God in one sense and is God in another.

9) Jesus said to Phillip if you have seen me you have seen the Father therefore Jesus is the Father.

This is the first reasonable argument. But, this would only be a valid argument if one takes it hyper-literalistically. Given other passages the directly mitigate against reading this passage in this way—like "He is the image of the invisible God", this argument likewise fails.

10) Jesus said "the Father and I are one" therefore Jesus is the Father.

In reality, Jesus said: ἐγὼ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἕν ἐσμεν, or "I and the Father, we are one." Notice, the use of the plural verb "are" eliminates the idea in English that this one means identically the same in every way. Thus, you didn't really present a single reason to believe Jesus is the Father while ignoring the countless passages the clearly teach a distinction between Jesus and the Father.

God Bless

 

[101G]

can't all be the same God while not being each other. There is no reason to read every "is" as an equals sign.

that's polytheism, when u said, "can't all be the same God". all is used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

and the term "quantity" means, the amount or number of a material or immaterial thing not usually estimated by. it is synonyms: with "TOTAL". to put it in Layman's terms, each of the three persons is a "ONE" God, meaning it's polytheistic in nature.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

can't all be the same God while not being each other. There is no reason to read every "is" as an equals sign.

that's polytheism, when u said, "can't all be the same God". all is used to refer to the whole quantity or extent of a particular group or thing.

Nope, it's the furthest thing from polytheism given that they are "the SAME God" as opposed to different gods in polytheism.

and the term "quantity" means, the amount or number of a material or immaterial thing not usually estimated by. it is synonyms: with "TOTAL". to put it in Layman's terms, each of the three persons is a "ONE" God, meaning it's polytheistic in nature.

Given that I didn't say "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", given that I categorically reject "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", your argument for charging me with polytheism is errant.

God Bless

 

[e v e 21]

The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father

no

 

[101G]

Nope, it's the furthest thing from polytheism given that they are "the SAME God" as opposed to different gods in polytheism.

you are his IMAGE? do you have three persons?

Given that I didn't say "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", given that I categorically reject "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", your argument for charging me with polytheism is errant.

I'm not charging you with anything, U are.

as I said before, if the one person God in John 1:3 that "MADE ALL THINGS" is not the same one person God in Isaiah 44:24, who "MADE ALL THINGS". then u charge yourself with polytheism. so we ask..... "is the God person in John 1:3 the Same One God person in Isaiah 44:24?" yes or no........ your own answer will determine if you're into polytheism or not,

your answer please. and God bless you also.



ps, remember the person God in Isaiah 44:24 said, "he" was Alone, and by himself, so he didn't go through anyone.

 

[101G]

to all my three persons believers. listen to the Scriptures. Isaiah 1:10 "Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
"Isaiah 1:11 "To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats."
Isaiah 1:12 "When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?"
Isaiah 1:13 "Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting."
Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them."

question, "if one of the God persons have a soul, do your other 2 persons have separate souls also?"

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Nope, it's the furthest thing from polytheism given that they are "the SAME God" as opposed to different gods in polytheism.

you are his IMAGE? do you have three persons?

Jesus is the image of God the Father. Scripture actually says, we were made in God's image. What attributes were attributed to mankind in making us in his image are not specified in Scripture. Given that we are not actually God, all the attributes of God were not communicated to us. So, why do you think Triunity would be transmitted to us as to ask this question?

DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
Given that I didn't say "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", given that I categorically reject "each of the three persons is a 'ONE' God", your argument for charging me with polytheism is errant.

I'm not charging you with anything, U are.

as I said before, if the one person God in John 1:3 that "MADE ALL THINGS" is not the same one person God in Isaiah 44:24, who "MADE ALL THINGS". then u charge yourself with polytheism. so we ask..... "is the God person in John 1:3 the Same One God person in Isaiah 44:24?" yes or no........ your own answer will determine if you're into polytheism or not,

your answer please. and God bless you also.

So, if one doesn't agree with your Unitarianism, then they are automatically polytheistic? "the Same One God person"? You are just assuming your theology and reading it into Scripture.

God Bless

 

[101G]

o, if one doesn't agree with your Unitarianism, then they are automatically polytheistic? "the Same One God person"? You are just assuming your theology and reading it into Scripture.

first thanks for the reply, second, I'm not Unitarian, LOL, LOL, LOL. and third, u cannot answer the Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 question, because it destroys the three persons Godhead belief. all of this "You are just assuming your theology and reading it into Scripture" was unnecessary. but it did tell me u now know your ERROR, for if u didn't u would have answered the question correctly. so by giving that lame excuse, now u know the truth, which u will have to now confront God almighty with, .... Good luck .... YIKES!

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

So, if one doesn't agree with your Unitarianism, then they are automatically polytheistic? "the Same One God person"? You are just assuming your theology and reading it into Scripture.

first thanks for the reply, second, I'm not Unitarian, LOL, LOL, LOL.

A Trinitarian is one who believes there are three persons who are the same God. A Unitarian is therefore one who believes there is one person who is God. Do you think God is not personal, aka Pantheism? Do you think there are multiple Gods, aka Polytheism? Do you think there are multiple persons who are God, like in Trinitarianism? Or, do you think there is only one person who is God? If you agree to the last, then you are by definition Unitarian, whether or not others use that term for themselves.

and third, u cannot answer the Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 question, because it destroys the three persons Godhead belief.

In reality, John 1:1-3 teaches Trinitarianism, and Isaiah 44:24 doesn't touch on the topic.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:1-3​

So, this Word was with God, was God and made all things. Notice in one sense, this Word is God, and in another, this Word isn't God, but with God. Therefore, multiple persons, given the use of personal pronouns, who are the same God. No "the Same One God person". You read "the Same One God person" into both passages. That's why I said, "You are just assuming your theology". "the Same One God person" isn't in either text. You added it.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, Isaiah 44:24​

So, what is this saying? The one God made everything alone. Given that in the Trinity the Father, Son, and Spirit are the same God, no issues here. The one God made everything in both perspectives without any help form any other being. Also, the Trinity was revealed in the incarnation of the Son and in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Since Isaiah 44:24 is prior to this perspective, there is no reason to think this verse is purposefully arguing against Trinitarianism. It's arguing against polytheism, and since we are not polytheists, it doesn't apply to us.

God Bless

 

[Caroljeen]

@SeventhDay

Regarding the title of this thread, what I can affirm is that Jesus is the name of the Father. Matt 28:19

I can affirm that the person of Father and the person of the Son, and the person of the Spirit are numerically the same divine person and there is one divine person.

I would affirm that the holy child which was conceived by the Spirit and born by Mary was called Jesus, the Son of God at birth. Luke 1:38
The Son did not preexist as the Son, but simply as the one divine person of God.

I would not affirm that the Son is the Father. So if the title of your thread in your mind means that Jesus the Son is the Father, I would disagree.

 

[Lee Magee]

Did Jesus father any children, for him to earn the Father title?