How not to defend the Bible.

[JonHawk]

This is not about your shameful disposition, it's about life in the Son.
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:11-12

I am His son. Amen, but to many His ways as a son is gnostic heresies.

Sonship is through Christ Jesus whom you reject and concocted your gnostic heresies.

 

[Gary Mac]

Sonship is through Christ Jesus whom you reject and concocted your gnostic heresies.

No sonship is the same Spirit of Gid Jesus received of God in Matt 3:16.

Adman received the same see Gen 3;22, Abraham res=ceived the same. Moses received the same from God. Jesus receieved the same from God in Matt 3:16, 120 did in an upper room.

The problem in your understanding is you have not received from God that what we did. You cant know Him without the same whop came to Jesus, you just do not believe Him that He came to Jesus and spend up who He is and all of His heaven in that man is all just as He does in us all who is boe=rn again as Jesus was in Matt 3:16 that you say is a lie and gnosticism.

 

[Gary Mac]

Jon -- you are caught in a crossroad of God who comes to man and you are caught in beliefs that God is a man and in that you wait for a god to come as a man and have no idea of the Spirit of God, His mind, Who was in that man.

Thjast is why you go without having in you the same from God as Jesus had from God that you reject violently. .

 

[Gary Mac]

I dont have that many more years to live on this planet as a son of God. But one thing I can say for sure is I followed Jesus to the resting place that I now live in this day. And what a joy it is to be able to say God I did what you proclaimed of me.

I went into the prisons for over 25 years, I went into the Jungles of West Africa in 2010 for over a year. Fed and clothes the street people whether they were lagit or not. Fed and clothed the poor. Went into Cook Children's Hospital and saw many miracles in prayer, and seen many heartbreaks of a child lost.

Dont anyone of you preach to me what God wanted of me. For had you followed me around in my 47 years of serving God in what ever capacity I had at that time, I did what my God called of me no different from when God called Jesus from a young age. Something happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16 and what was it? Read it.

Jesus was of the religious temple as well as I was, but after Matt 3:16 His whole world was turned upside down. Scandals, hatred, blasphemy, followed him from the very pews he came out from.

If you receieved the same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 -- it would change your life just as I was changed in Jesus who by following the wisdom of those who experienced God for themselves.

The way religious folk view the ways pop God is this.

In the biblical days, Adam did, Eve did, Abraham did, Moses did, Jesus did in Matt 3:16, 120 did in an upper room.

This is exactly what is missing from our churches today. They have no intent in receiving from God that what Jesus and all of these did from God.

To these who oppose His ways is no different from those who opposed Jesus in his ways of His Father who was his God. same God I serve.

 

[JonHawk]

No sonship is the same Spirit of Gid Jesus received of God in Matt 3:16.

So you flat out reject that God sent His Son born of woman, born under law to redeem and grant sonship to those who trust in Him?

Jon -- you are caught in a crossroad of God who comes to man and you are caught in beliefs that God is a man and in that you wait for a god to come as a man

Now you are describing your own dilemma, since it is you who denies that Jesus is the divine Son of God;

and have no idea of the Spirit of God, His mind, Who was in that man.

And because you reject redemption through Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant;

Thjast is why you go without having in you the same from God as Jesus had from God that you reject violently. .

Consequently, you are dead in your transgressions.

The problem in your understanding is you have not received from God that what we did.

And therefore what you rebellious brood of gnostics have is blindness, God's wrath. John 9:39

You cant know Him without the same whop came to Jesus, you just do not believe Him that He came to Jesus as He does in us all who is boe=rn again as Jesus was in Matt 3:16 that you say is a lie and gnosticism.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3:36

 

[Gary Mac]

So you flat out reject that God sent His Son born of woman, born under law to redeem and grant sonship to those who trust in Him?

Oh heck no I am His son born of a woman under the law.

It is those who see His ways as gnostic lies who flat out reject His ways to be His son yourself.

Now you are describing your own dilemma, since it is you who denies that Jesus is the divine Son of God;

No I do not deny Jesus was the divine son of God. We all are who has the same Father as Jesus had.

And because you reject redemption through Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant;

I do reject redemption through Jesus and adhere to the One who redeemed Jesus to Himself in Matt 3:16.

Consequently, you are dead in your transgressions.

Just as Jesus is to you as a gnostic liar that you accuse his ways of being.

And therefore what you rebellious brood of gnostics have is blindness, God's wrath. John 9:39

What we have who is of the Father are saved unto Him to walk as He walks in His same light, but for the ignorant who has not the father as Jesus did, we are as Jesus was accused of by the same are gnostic liars for those who are antichrist.

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. John 3:36

Yes and to these who see His ways a gnostic lies suffer His wrath.

 

[JonHawk]

Oh heck no I am His son born of a woman under the law.

I do reject redemption through Jesus and adhere to the One who redeemed Jesus to Himself in Matt 3:16.

But outside are the gnostics, the idolaters who practice falsehood.

 

[Theo1689]

We all should be aware that many people are very critical of the Bible and don't believe much of what it says. Of course, as Christians we are commanded to be ready to defend what we believe. We read in 1 Peter 3:14-16 (New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition):

I believe that particular passage is about sharing the gospel, not specifically about defending the Bible. I've had Christians quote that verse to try to goad me into arguing with them, and that's not what it's there for.

IMO, the Bible needs no defense. People should be encouraged to read it, if for no other reason than it has made such a large contribution to our society. But for someone who criticizes the Bible, their criticism is not of much value if they haven't even bothered to read the very thing they're critical of.

IMO, the Bible is self-authenticating. At least it was for me. What it teaches is obviously true. And even if one doubts the historical accuracy of its contents, there is much that peoiple would find true and helpful, such as the tend commandments, loving your neighbour, turning the other cheek, not going to bed angry, forgiving others, etc. etc.

As to the Bible contents, there are two aspects of trusting it. The first is whether it accurately reflects what was written 2000 years ago, and the second is whether what was written down 2000 years ago is factually accurate.

Concerning the former, we have far more manuscripts, 5800+ copies of part or the whole New Testament, from far closer to the original writing, than we do evidence of other ancient writings, such as Plato or Homer, some authors of which we may only have 1 copy dated centuries after the fact. If critics doubt the accuracy of the Bible, why do they not doubt the accuracy of other ancient works? I've always believed the Bible, but I have found that the science of "textual criticism", studying the manuscripts, has greatly increased my confidence that we have the original text. We also have a continuous line of Christians as a "chain of evidence", as it were, unlike something that was suddenly discovered, like the "gold plates" of the Book of Mormon, which has no tangible history (or even existence).

As to whether the Biblical accounts are factually accurate, there's no reason for anyone to doubt them, except perhaps for the miraculous accounts. We have testimonies from writers such as Josephus. But at the end of the day, only the Holy Spirit has the power to do that.

So regarding scripture we are to defend it with gentleness and respect.

You mean like when you responded to me with, "Evidently I know better than you"?
Do better.

Sadly, Peter's advice often goes ignored. Many Christians won't even bother to defend the Bible. If they do defend it, they often treat skeptics with scorn as if they are fools or idiots.

Well, obviously they shouldn't do that. But to be fair, it's usually because the skeptics brought that attitude to the table themselves.

I propose that Christians honor those who have made a good faith effort to read the Bible whether they agree with us or not about what it says or how credible it may be.

Agreed.

Concede that many Bible passages are difficult to understand,

... for the unstable and unlearned...

and nobody needs to be ashamed if they have problems understanding those passages. After all, we Christians encourage unbelievers to read scripture, and we betray their trust in us if we insult their intelligence over disagreements or what conclusions they come to.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to lie simply get into an unbeliever's good graces.
If I don't find a passage problematic, but they think I should, then I'm not going to lie.

If unbelievers do cite difficult passages, share with them the difficulty we all have with such passages. Don't try to take easy way outs by trying to explain away those passages as metaphorical without good justification for that interpretation.

Again, if the interpretation IS metaphorical, I'm not going to lie.

If you do so, then the skeptic might see you as using a metaphorical interpretation as an ad hoc attempt to slip out of a sticky situation.

That's unfortunate.
But I guess that's the nice thing about being Reformed. I know that God is in control, and He will draw all the elect sheep to Himself. And I don't have to lie in order to try to get it to happen.

If you cannot resolve an apparent Bible difficulty, then it is probably better to simply admit that you are unable to solve the problem.

Agreed.

 

[JonHawk]

Unknown Soldier said:
Sadly, Peter's advice often goes ignored. Many Christians won't even bother to defend the Bible.

If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:10-11

 

[Our Lord's God]

We all should be aware that many people are very critical of the Bible and don't believe much of what it says. Of course, as Christians we are commanded to be ready to defend what we believe. We read in 1 Peter 3:14-16 (New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition):

So regarding scripture we are to defend it with gentleness and respect. Sadly, Peter's advice often goes ignored. Many Christians won't even bother to defend the Bible. If they do defend it, they often treat skeptics with scorn as if they are fools or idiots.

I propose that Christians honor those who have made a good faith effort to read the Bible whether they agree with us or not about what it says or how credible it may be. Concede that many Bible passages are difficult to understand, and nobody needs to be ashamed if they have problems understanding those passages. After all, we Christians encourage unbelievers to read scripture, and we betray their trust in us if we insult their intelligence over disagreements or what conclusions they come to. If unbelievers do cite difficult passages, share with them the difficulty we all have with such passages. Don't try to take easy way outs by trying to explain away those passages as metaphorical without good justification for that interpretation. If you do so, then the skeptic might see you as using a metaphorical interpretation as an ad hoc attempt to slip out of a sticky situation. If you cannot resolve an apparent Bible difficulty, then it is probably better to simply admit that you are unable to solve the problem.

Anyway, that's a good start or so I hope. Please share your views about how not to defend the Bible.

Truth needs no defence but many people need help to accept it.

Put another way, truth needs no defence but lies need to be annhilated.

 

[JonHawk]

If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:10-11

Truth needs no defence but many people need help to accept it.

if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: Eph 4:21

Put another way, truth needs no defence but lies need to be annhilated.

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; Titus 3

 

[Gary Mac]

if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: Eph 4:21

Then why do you accuse him of gnostic lies?

For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

You still do for to you the ways of the Father in holiness is gnostic lies for you.

4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; Titus 3

But not for you, for to you the ways of the Father in Jesus is evil gnosticism.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Truth needs no defence...

Truth often does need to be defended. I defend truth all the time. Lies often are accepted as truth.

...but many people need help to accept it.

We all need to be diligent making sure we don't fall into that category.

...lies need to be annhilated.

Harmful lies should be exposed for what they are. Other kinds of lies are not so important.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Truth often does need to be defended. I defend truth all the time. Lies often are accepted as truth.

We all need to be diligent making sure we don't fall into that category.

Harmful lies should be exposed for what they are. Other kinds of lies are not so important.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life." - Jesus

False witnesses were testifying against Jesus at his trial but he remained silent. He did not find it necessary to defend himself.

 

[JonHawk]

"I am the way, the truth, and the life." - Jesus

False witnesses were testifying against Jesus at his trial but he remained silent. He did not find it necessary to defend himself.

All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; Isaiah 53:6-7

Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25

 

[Unknown Soldier]

"I am the way, the truth, and the life." - Jesus

Then if you tell the truth, you "tell Jesus"?

False witnesses were testifying against Jesus at his trial but he remained silent. He did not find it necessary to defend himself.

What passage are you referring to? In Mark 14:60-62 Jesus initially remained silent but soon after answered that He was the "Son of Man" who would be "sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." So Jesus did defend Himself.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Then if you tell the truth, you "tell Jesus"?

Was that a way for you to confuse yourself?

Jesus was the truth because He expressed God Himself.

Yes, we are called to do the same.

What passage are you referring to? In Mark 14:60-62 Jesus initially remained silent but soon after answered that He was the "Son of Man" who would be "sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." So Jesus did defend Himself.

I guess you need more time to think about it.

 

[Gary Mac]

Truth often does need to be defended. I defend truth all the time. Lies often are accepted as truth.

Every denominations defends their truths, from Catholic, Mormons, Muslims, LDS, COCs, Baptists, you name it.

We all need to be diligent making sure we don't fall into that category.

Amen, and the only truth comes by God Himself who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opened all of His truths to that man, before that Jesus was of the truths of the Jewish temple who eventually had Jesus crucified for breach of their truths.

Harmful lies should be exposed for what they are. Other kinds of lies are not so important.

But you can repeat what Jesus said as truth but most still reject his truths to appease their own truths by a belief instead of the reality of that God puts in man as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Most in this very forum will argue with Jesus about his truths for who we should be in the Father as he was in the Father to be perfect as God in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in his same light perfect holy pure and without sin.

Truth? Everyone has one dont they?

 

[Gary Mac]

All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

Even Jesus went astray in teaching the laws of the Jewish temple even from a young age, but he came into Gods being in Matt 3:16 where he was no longer of these laws but of Gods Spirit. And we are no different who God is manifest Himself in us and has received from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16 are not astray but in His kingdom. Luke 17:20-21.

He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter; Isaiah 53:6-7

Just as we all are who has receieved form God the same.

Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

Yes because he did bore our sins who had him crucified for blaspheme. It was because of mans sins that he went through the trials and tribulation of the cross. So yes he did bore our sins.

For you were like sheep going astray, but have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25

Amen I am like Him now instead of who I was before I was born of God as Jesus was born of God in Matt 3:16 no different at all.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Every denominations defends their truths, from Catholic, Mormons, Muslims, LDS, COCs, Baptists, you name it.

Their creedal beliefs are in fact the idol they serve, an idol which they have made for themselves to serve.

Amen, and the only truth comes by God Himself who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 and opened all of His truths to that man, before that Jesus was of the truths of the Jewish temple who eventually had Jesus crucified for breach of their truths.

But you can repeat what Jesus said as truth but most still reject his truths to appease their own truths by a belief instead of the reality of that God puts in man as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Most in this very forum will argue with Jesus about his truths for who we should be in the Father as he was in the Father to be perfect as God in heaven is perfect and walk as He walks in his same light perfect holy pure and without sin.

This is far from what they have been taught by their false prophets who also teach them to seek approval of one another rather than the approval of God.

Jesus walked by his Father's Spirit and become just like his Father by doing so. We are to walk as he walked and become like our Father in the same way. It's the entire point.

Truth? Everyone has one dont they?

Too many people think they can just arbitrarily stick the label "truth" on their beliefs and suppose it therefore is so.