Jesus Is The Father

SeventhDay said:
The difficulty is that when one considers God as a plurality one must not think in human terms. One sees God as persons but what is complete in God has God's nature but is of the same Spirit and soul as God. God is one singular but as a plurality they are roles of God just as God being a Father is a role. Now, if God has a role of the Father, then can God have other roles of himself? God persons are roles of God because all things originate and end in God. God is the first and the last. All things proceed out of God and come back to him. There is one God, one faith and one Spirit and all that is God is joined to that one Spirit. God is self-existent an all that is complete in God share in God's self-existence. God creating implies that there is a law of circularity which we must come to understand what that means because all comes out of God and returns back to him.

God bless you. :)
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first thanks for the reply, again, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, instead of Roles, EQUALLY SHARED in Spirit, not two separate and distinct Spirits, no, but one S[pirit equally shared as Phil 2:6 states. consider equally SHARED Nature in an "ECHAD" of Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last in Time, place, Order, or Rank.

if you like I can give you some examples in Scripture.

101G.
 
101G said:
first thanks for the reply, again, not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, instead of Roles, EQUALLY SHARED in Spirit, not two separate and distinct Spirits, no, but one S[pirit equally shared as Phil 2:6 states. consider equally SHARED Nature in an "ECHAD" of Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last in Time, place, Order, or Rank.

if you like I can give you some examples in Scripture.

101G.
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All is of one spiritual body. right? God bless you. :)
 
SeventhDay said:
All is of one spiritual body. right? God bless you. :)
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yes, for there is ONE Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"

and do we not have ONE "Father", Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

who is the Father by title? the "LORD"/"Lord"

first the "LORD". Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

now "Lord" as Father. 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

when understanding the Godhead, always remember these verses,

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Mark 10:27 "And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."

Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."


101G.
 
Christ and His Spirit are the hands of God.
His Male and Female attributes.

He is not an IT or a substance.
That would be the Greek god 'reason' or Self you refer to.

a pagan faith would be that oneness concept....

SeventhDay said:
All is of one spiritual body. right? God bless you. :)
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but what is the spiritual body of Eden paradise ?

It is the body we lost because of adam..
and it is not of this world and it can be touched...
just as Christ after His resurrection

and so for the sons will be each their spiritual body when we are Saved
from here

His Spirit has a gorgeous body and His Son has a gorgeous body...
the Son's eden body some even saw here on this earth..
though it is not a body of this earth
 
101G said:
yes, for there is ONE Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"

and do we not have ONE "Father", Malachi 2:10 "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?"

who is the Father by title? the "LORD"/"Lord"

first the "LORD". Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

now "Lord" as Father. 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

when understanding the Godhead, always remember these verses,

Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Mark 10:27 "And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."

Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."


101G.
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God is indeed the Father!

God bless you. :)
 
Jesus is the Father falls apart very easily...Colossians 1:13-18

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The main topic of the following verses is SON...Verses 16 - 17 identify him as GOD.

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Jesus is not the FATHER...HE IS THE SON...
SeventhDay said:
God who is singular has plural unified personal roles within himself who communicate with each other. That is very easy to understand. God bless you. :)
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The verses I quoted do not make the SON a role...They make him (individually GOD) That is his STATUS!

WHO IS IDENTIFIED AS GOD.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
 
The-Plural-One-God said:
Jesus is the Father falls apart very easily...Colossians 1:13-18

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

The main topic of the following verses is SON...Verses 16 - 17 identify him as GOD.

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Jesus is not the FATHER...HE IS THE SON...

The verses I quoted do not make the SON a role...They make him (individually GOD) That is his STATUS!

WHO IS IDENTIFIED AS GOD.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
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If the Son is being referred to as God who is the Father who the Son called God and prays to then when we see Jesus, we see God as the Father in a Father and Son relationship. God is a unified plurality which is why Jesus is the Savior who is "Yah" that saves. Yet God is singular entity who is the Father, and the Father does not exclude the Son. The question is does God have roles of himself? The Father is a role of God then why not the Son as well. However, the Son is not a God person or other God he is part of the plurality of God! Scripture does not use the phrase God the Son so why should we? However, we can say Jesus is God because Jesus includes the whole unified plurality of God which is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Remember God is a spiritual body and so all that are in Christ are joined to that one Spirit body. I do not see persons but one God who is Spirit and all are joined to the Spirit. All are roles of God within himself, and God is glorified, and all are glorified in God. God as a soul or person is Spirit with a spiritual body and in God when we see one another we are seeing God himself!

Jesus said: Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jesus said:
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

We see that the plurality of God is a unified one and if we see Jesus, we not only do see the Son but the Father as well and that is what the body of Christ should see in each other.

God bless you. :)
 
SeventhDay said:
Nice assertion. Scripture doesn't say or teach that, and I see no logical reason to accept that. So, I'll pass on your assertion. FYI, I did quote Scripture. Are you going to deal with Scripture?

More assertions? Why are you not going to Scripture to justify your claims? I did, and you ignored it. What does that say about the foundation of our perspectives?

FYI, no one is saying one = three. Such is a fundamental misunderstanding of Trinitarianism. Your argument, if valid, would reject: one yard = three feet. Does that seem rational? We say One God in three persons, and some how the units disappear and you get 1=3. Maybe, you should stop jumping to such irrational arguments.
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One God in three persons or three persons in one God is not confusing but the trinity doctrine is!
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That's a confusing sentence for me. "One God in three persons" is the doctrine of the Trinity. How is one confusing and the other not?

SeventhDay said:
Now to confirm your statement: Jesus said that he was in the Father and the Father was in him and we know the Spirit was in the son of man. Jesus also said The Father and he was one. God is one therefore we see that God is a plurality but is it of persons called God or personal roles each distinct from the Father who is God?
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It is a plurality of persons given the use of personal pronouns used to distinguish between them in Scripture. You would use "He, You, I" distinctions between different personal roles of one person.

SeventhDay said:
If God is called the Father, then the Son is not God. If God is called the Father, then the son of man is not God.
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Correct, but God is not called the Father in the NT. The Father is called God. And, the order matters.

SeventhDay said:
If the son of God is the Son of God, then how can the son of man be the Son of God?
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Both, the Son of God, and the Son of Man are simply titles referring to Jesus. Stop over thinking this.

SeventhDay said:
However, Jesus is all three but not three persons! Personal roles, yes, three selves, no!
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Yes, Jesus is all three, and that's utterly inconsequential to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit being the three persons who are the one God.

God Bless

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?
 
SeventhDay said:
If the Son is being referred to as God who is the Father who the Son called God and prays to then when we see Jesus, we see God as the Father in a Father and Son relationship. God is a unified plurality which is why Jesus is the Savior who is "Yah" that saves. Yet God is singular entity who is the Father, and the Father does not exclude the Son. The question is does God have roles of himself? The Father is a role of God then why not the Son as well. However, the Son is not a God person or other God he is part of the plurality of God! Scripture does not use the phrase God the Son so why should we? However, we can say Jesus is God because Jesus includes the whole unified plurality of God which is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Remember God is a spiritual body and so all that are in Christ are joined to that one Spirit body. I do not see persons but one God who is Spirit and all are joined to the Spirit. All are roles of God within himself, and God is glorified, and all are glorified in God. God as a soul or person is Spirit with a spiritual body and in God when we see one another we are seeing God himself!

Jesus said: Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Jesus said:
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Joh 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

We see that the plurality of God is a unified one and if we see Jesus, we not only do see the Son but the Father as well and that is what the body of Christ should see in each other.

God bless you. :)
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I can see that your confused about the reality of the existence of the Son as God and not the Father.
Jesus never refered to the Father as ME....The Apostles called him the SON...never the Father.
Jesus showed Philip the Father by his works, deeds, actions...and let me throw this in here right quick.
We have 2 advocates with the Father....when I have more time I will expand on this.
 
The-Plural-One-God said:
I can see that your confused about the reality of the existence of the Son as God and not the Father.
Jesus never refered to the Father as ME....The Apostles called him the SON...never the Father.
Jesus showed Philip the Father by his works, deeds, actions...and let me throw this in here right quick.
We have 2 advocates with the Father....when I have more time I will expand on this.
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Jesus as the Son of God has always existed with the Father. What is confusing about that?

God bless you. :)
 
Jesus is "Father". let's make it simple.
OT first. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

clearly the "LORD" all caps is First and Father, Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

Clearly the "LORD" is both Father and First.

NT: Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Isaiah 41:4 "I the LORD, the first" Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first" who is the Lord.

OT: LORD = "first", NT: Lord = "first". same one person, or one has two "first", or two "fathers", yes, Father, is not the Father the CREATOR? Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

this is the same one person....... JESUS.

101G.
 
DoctrinesofGraceBapt said:
That's a confusing sentence for me. "One God in three persons" is the doctrine of the Trinity. How is one confusing and the other not?



It is a plurality of persons given the use of personal pronouns used to distinguish between them in Scripture. You would use "He, You, I" distinctions between different personal roles of one person.



Correct, but God is not called the Father in the NT. The Father is called God. And, the order matters.



Both, the Son of God, and the Son of Man are simply titles referring to Jesus. Stop over thinking this.



Yes, Jesus is all three, and that's utterly inconsequential to the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit being the three persons who are the one God.

God Bless

BS: Why haven't you interacted with the Scripture I posted?
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"Correct, but God is not called the Father in the NT. The Father is called God. And, the order matters."

We see in the NT the plurality of God who is the Father and Jesus calls God his Father.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Here it is showing that God is a plurality which is the Echad or God's oneness which is the Father and the Son in relationship. We see more of God's oneness in John chapter 17.

Jesus is "God with us" thus Jesus is God's oneness (Echad) which includes the Father and the Son of God and inherently in the son of man.

God bless you. :)
 
101G said:
Jesus is "Father". let's make it simple.
OT first. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

clearly the "LORD" all caps is First and Father, Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

Clearly the "LORD" is both Father and First.

NT: Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Isaiah 41:4 "I the LORD, the first" Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first" who is the Lord.

OT: LORD = "first", NT: Lord = "first". same one person, or one has two "first", or two "fathers", yes, Father, is not the Father the CREATOR? Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

this is the same one person....... JESUS.

101G.
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Good work! :)

Jesus is called Emanuel which means "God with us" and that includes Father and the Son. God does not separate Father from the Son but many do but both are God's oneness and God is the Father. If Jesus is God with us which is the Echad then Jesus is the Father!

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:

Deu 32:3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God.

Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Deu 32:15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

God bless you. :)
 
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101G said:
Jesus is "Father". let's make it simple.
OT first. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

clearly the "LORD" all caps is First and Father, Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting."

Clearly the "LORD" is both Father and First.

NT: Revelation 1:9 "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet," Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Isaiah 41:4 "I the LORD, the first" Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first" who is the Lord.

OT: LORD = "first", NT: Lord = "first". same one person, or one has two "first", or two "fathers", yes, Father, is not the Father the CREATOR? Revelation 4:11 "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

this is the same one person....... JESUS.

101G.
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Who proclaims your claim in the New Testament? No one in scripture identifies Jesus as the Father...Over 200 times Jesus is refered to as the SON...Hebrews 3:6...But Christ as a SON over his own house; whose house are we...Father Jesus does not exist...Jesus refered to the Father as HE, HIM, but not ME...The Father does not proclaim...I am my beloved SON in whom I am well pleased.
 
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