Is evil necessary to have good, and is that why God allows evil?

[Ontos]

I assumed my readers would know that God is also all good and all knowing. If we conjoin omnipotence with omnibenevolence and toss in a dash of omniscience, then we end up with a God who not only knows about all evil but who opposes it and has the power to overcome it. So yes, God's limitless power is very germane to the issue of evil in the world.

Tacking on these extra omni's doesn't suddenly change anything - God is not obligated to any creature.

Then how do any of us have any obligation to stop evil if we can?

Because man qua finite can gain or lose goodness which means he has virtuous ends to achieve i.e. obligation. This isn't the case at all with God.

There's no way you can know that.

It's right there in the Book of Revelation.

Appealing to a "timetable" does little to explain God allowing evil that he presumably can stop right now. I think the sooner evil is done away with, the better.

He allows it to demonstrate his justice and mercy, and it'll be "done away with" at his discretion - not ours. It's that simple.

A crazed man pointing a gun at you would seem very real and substantial I assure you.

A man and a gun is real and a substance for sure, but neither of those things in and of themselves are evil.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Evil exisxts by design. Call it God's experiment if you wish, but God wants us, the humanity, to stop evil.

So it's all a big test. God started evil just to see if we can stop it. Are you serious?

 

[Baltic]

So it's all a big test. God started evil just to see if we can stop it. Are you serious?

It is not the test, no. It is rehabilitation therapy.

 

[GeneZ]

God allowed for evil so Satan and his fallen angels could condemn themselves. That takes place when they accuse fallen men of doing things that they condemn, yet approve of in themselves.

Out of jealousy (because we are redeemed and forgiven and accepted) Satan accuses believers day and night before the Lord.

Why does God allow for Satan to accuse us, when God knows all of our sins have been paid for? God is getting Satan to fess up and admit he deserves to be condemned. For what Satan's condemns in us? Satan is the father of. All fallen men in sin are children of the Devil.

Its the perfect vindication of God's judgment when God allows Satan to accuse and condemn in us what Satan refused to repent of. The Lord is tricking the deceiver into being truthful!

So...

Satan is permitted to accuse believers day and night in heaven.
What is taking place when Satan accuses us before God our our sins and evil?

Do not judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.

For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you."

Matthew 7:1-2

God is collection all the times that Satan admitted that our fallen behavior is worthy of death and God's condemnation! God covered us by having Jesus die on the Cross to remove all condemnation!

We are warned not to judge and condemn others. Why? Such action is allowed for Satan. God is getting Satan to condemn and judge himself!

God's genius at getting his enemies to destroy themselves.

 

[JonHawk]

Do not judge and criticize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and criticized and condemned yourselves.
For just as you judge and criticize and condemn others, you will be judged and criticized and condemned, and in accordance with the measure you [use to] deal out to others, it will be dealt out again to you." Matthew 7:1-2

5 For it is Jesus Christ who stands ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be alert and sober minded, love the brethren for love covers over a multitude of sins.
9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. 10 Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others, as faithful stewards of God’s grace 11 If anyone speaks, they should preach the word of God. If anyone serves, they should do so with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.

Count it all Joy​

12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 1 Peter 4:5-14

 

[Rockson]

In case you're not familiar with the term theodicy, it is defined as the vindication of God's goodness and authority in the presence of evil. A common theodicy Christian apologists offer is that God must allow evil to allow good because good cannot exist without evil. I submit that this theodicy is logically flawed.

I agree it's flawed. Good would have just remained good through all the eons of time. There was no need for evil to come forth.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I agree it's flawed. Good would have just remained good through all the eons of time. There was no need for evil to come forth.

Yes. It's a very lame apologetic. God is good, and he's good without evil. So why would he need to create a good world that includes evil? Like I explain in the OP, a proposition like "a thing is good" need not be followed by its negation: "another thing is not good." It's like saying that if you eat a good pie, then you must eat a bad pie. There's no reason why all pies cannot be good.

 

[JonHawk]

I have set before you life and death, choose life, that you may live; Deut 30:19

Yes. It's a very lame apologetic. God is good, and he's good without evil. So why would he need to create a good world that includes evil?

Obviously He created a world that allows you to choose life that you may live or you would have been whining that you are not robots.

For the Lord is your life Deut 30:20 The Lord is my light and my salvation; Psalm 27:1 Now that you have tasted that the Lord is good. 1 Peter 2:3

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Obviously He created a world that allows you to choose life that you may live or you would have been whining that you are not robots.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. If I couldn't choose life to live, or I would have been whining that I'm not robots? That doesn't make sense.

 

[JonHawk]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. If I couldn't choose life to live, or I would have been whining that I'm not robots? That doesn't make sense.

It made a whole lot of sense to you when you stated that you were not in sin when you received the Spirit. Checkmate.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It made a whole lot of sense to you when you stated that you were not in sin when you received the Spirit. Checkmate.

No, I am not in sin since I was indwelled by the Holy Ghost. Anyway, what you said never made sense to me. You are welcome to explain it. The statement in question is: "Obviously He created a world that allows you to choose life that you may live or you would have been whining that you are not robots." I think you may be saying: "God gave you the freedom to make choices. Otherwise, you would be whining that you are merely a 'robot' having no free will." Is that correct?

 

[JonHawk]

No, I am not in sin since I was indwelled by the Holy Ghost.

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by faith? Gal 3:5

Anyway, what you said never made sense to me. You are welcome to explain it. The statement in question is: "Obviously He created a world that allows you to choose life that you may live or you would have been whining that you are not robots." I think you may be saying: "God gave you the freedom to make choices. Otherwise, you would be whining that you are merely a 'robot' having no free will." Is that correct?

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Gal 6:7-8

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Tacking on these extra omni's doesn't suddenly change anything - God is not obligated to any creature.

In a way God does have obligations. Just as parents have obligations to care for the kids they brought into the world, God has an obligation to care for the people He has brought into the world.

Because man qua finite can gain or lose goodness which means he has virtuous ends to achieve i.e. obligation. This isn't the case at all with God.

Right. Since God is perfectly good, it is reasonable to expect perfect goodness from Him.

It's right there in the Book of Revelation.

But reading prophecy isn't knowledge. It's faith that God will do what He says.

He allows it to demonstrate his justice and mercy, and it'll be "done away with" at his discretion - not ours. It's that simple.

So might is right. Is that what you're saying?

A man and a gun is real and a substance for sure, but neither of those things in and of themselves are evil.

You must be a member of the NRA.

 

[JonHawk]

In a way God does have obligations.

What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Rom 4:3-5

But reading prophecy isn't knowledge. It's faith that God will do what He says.

Therefore, inheriting the promise depends entirely on faith in order that it may be given as an act of grace [His unmerited favor], so that the promise will be [legally] guaranteed to all the descendants [of Abraham]—not only for those [Jewish believers], but also for those [Gentile believers]
(as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead Rom 4:16-17
Being fully assured that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but it is also imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, Rom 4;21-25 (Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead; 1 Peter 1:21)

Now that we are in the faith, we are baptized into Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

They all ate and drank from the same spiritual Rock that accompanied them, and that Rock was Christ Jesus, the Messiah. 1 Cor 10:4

Through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:6

 

[Gary Mac]

The Father accepts human action of following Christ Jesus's example, when Christ in you makes good choices and our conscience follows it, this is ,imo, redemptionn through Christ Jesus. It starts with metanoia.

Actually redemption is when one receives from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16. We dont get redemption through anyone, we get it through Gods Holy Spirit to be anointed of God which is Christ in you. Jesus was anointed of God starting in Matt 3:16 he didnt know God nor His heaven until God came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man.

He does the very same in all who will receive Him, not very many receive Him as Jesus did do they? Few who find His ways and is like Him as Jesus was.

 

[Gary Mac]

So it's all a big test. God started evil just to see if we can stop it. Are you serious?

Is 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

 

[JonHawk]

JonHawk:
What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Rom 4:3-5

Therefore, inheriting the promise depends entirely on faith in order that it may be given as an act of grace [His unmerited favor], so that the promise will be [legally] guaranteed to all the descendants [of Abraham]—not only for those [Jewish believers], but also for those [Gentile believers]
(as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead Rom 4:16-17
Being fully assured that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but it is also imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, Rom 4;21-25 (Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead; 1 Peter 1:21)

Now that we are in the faith, we are baptized into Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

They all ate and drank from the same spiritual Rock that accompanied them, and that Rock was Christ Jesus, the Messiah. 1 Cor 10:4

Through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:6

Actually redemption is when one receives from God that what Jesus did in Matt 3:16. We dont get redemption through anyone, we get it through Gods Holy Spirit to be anointed of God which is Christ in you. Jesus was anointed of God starting in Matt 3:16 he didnt know God nor His heaven until God came to him and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in that man.
He does the very same in all who will receive Him, not very many receive Him as Jesus did do they? Few who find His ways and is like Him as Jesus was.

The fact is redemption is in Christ Jesus, After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1
God has translated us into the kingdom of the His Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1

Is 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

What do you want with the day of the Lord Jesus? It will be darkness, not light. Amos 5:18
Utter darkness is reserved for these gnostic workers of iniquity. Job 20:26-29
Ill-gotten treasures have no enduring value, but righteousness delivers from death. Prov 10:2

 

[Gary Mac]

JonHawk:
What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. Rom 4:3-5

Therefore, inheriting the promise depends entirely on faith in order that it may be given as an act of grace [His unmerited favor], so that the promise will be [legally] guaranteed to all the descendants [of Abraham]—not only for those [Jewish believers], but also for those [Gentile believers]
(as it is written, “I have made you a father of many nations”) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead Rom 4:16-17
Being fully assured that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but it is also imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, Rom 4;21-25 (Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead; 1 Peter 1:21)

Now that we are in the faith, we are baptized into Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29

They all ate and drank from the same spiritual Rock that accompanied them, and that Rock was Christ Jesus, the Messiah. 1 Cor 10:4

Through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Eph 3:6

The fact is redemption is in Christ Jesus, After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1
God has translated us into the kingdom of the His Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. Col 1

What do you want with the day of the Lord Jesus?

The day of the Lord was when He came to me and opens up who He is and all of His heaven, and the4 day of the Lord for Jesus was the same in Matt 3:16, that was his day with his Lord and God.

It will be darkness, not light. Amos 5:18
Utter darkness is reserved for these gnostic workers of iniquity. Job 20:26-29
Ill-gotten treasures have no enduring value, but righteousness delivers from death. Prov 10:2

Your darkness, sin, is the only light that you see.;

 

[JonHawk]

The day of the Lord was when He came to me and opens up who He is and all of His heaven, and the4 day of the Lord for Jesus was the same in Matt 3:16, that was his day with his Lord and God. Your darkness, sin, is the only light that you see.;

Which you also equated with your gnostic delusion in which you claimed to be like god in Gen 3:22,
and deny Christ Jesus at every turn.

Gary Mac: "I do reject redemption through Christ"

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:18-19

 

[Unknown Soldier]

What does Scripture say?

I can read the Bible any time. Can't you speak for yourself for once rather than constantly parroting the Bible?