Authority/Responsibility

dingoling.

Well-known member
As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium. For this reason we listen to what the church teaches concerning the Christian faith. The primary teachings of the Catholic church can be found in Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). These two sources can be trusted for knowing what we are to believe as Christians. The authority rests upon the shoulders of Jesus and so we should trust the ones that Jesus gave authority to:

Isaiah 9:6-7:
For a child has been born for us,
a son given to us;
authority rests upon his shoulders;
and he is named
Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
His authority shall grow continually,
and there shall be endless peace
for the throne of David and his kingdom.
He will establish and uphold it
with justice and with righteousness
from this time onwards and for evermore.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this.

Jesus is responsible and he has entrusted this responsibility to the Catholic church. Therefore we can trust the scriptures and the CCC.

So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? Will these other sources be held responsible?
 
As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium. For this reason we listen to what the church teaches concerning the Christian faith. The primary teachings of the Catholic church can be found in Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). These two sources can be trusted for knowing what we are to believe as Christians. The authority rests upon the shoulders of Jesus and so we should trust the ones that Jesus gave authority to:
...

Jesus is responsible and he has entrusted this responsibility to the Catholic church. Therefore we can trust the scriptures and the CCC.

So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? Will these other sources be held responsible?
is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) infallible?
 
You didn't answer my questions.
this is your question:
"So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? Will these other sources be held responsible?"

1) I reject your "this"
"This" = As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium.
2) Why would we listen to the CCC if it is not infallible?
3) We do NOT listen to other sources that contradict scripture; including the CCC.

Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) infallible?
 
this is your question:
"So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? Will these other sources be held responsible?"

1) I reject your "this"
"This" = As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium.
2) Why would we listen to the CCC if it is not infallible?
3) We don't listen to other sources that contradict scripture; including the CCC.

Is the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) infallible?
Please state why you reject the "this". Thanks.
 
Please state why you reject the "this". Thanks.
"This" = As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium.

I see no Biblical support for your presupposition.
You start with a premise that we don't agree is true: then you want to know why we don't accept its conclusion.

your question: "why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC"
IOW you are asking why don't we submit to an authority that we don't believe has authority.
(the answer is obvious)

Have you seen the thread on circular reasoning?
 
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"This" = As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium.

I see no Biblical support for your presupposition.
You start with a premise that we don't agree is true: then you want to know why we don't accept its conclusion.
IOW you are asking why don't we recognize the authority we don't believe has authority.
Have you seen the thread on circular reasoning?

So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC?

So you accept scripture as a source of authority but not the CCC or the Catholic church, is that correct?

What is your answer to the other question:
Will these other sources be held responsible?
 
So you accept scripture as a source of authority but not the CCC or the Catholic church, is that correct?
Yes:every line of Scripture is infallible: is the CCC infallible?
I accept Scripture as the highest authority and the ONLY infallible authority we have.
Your CCC does have authority: it may be correction on certain teachings : but it is not an infallible authority
What is your answer to the other question:
"Will these other sources be held responsible?"
Yes; I hold God's words as responsible (that seems an awkward way to say it) Scripture is reliable and trustworthy.
 
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I don't believe that the CCC is infallible.



Ok. By God's words you are referring to all of God's word, both written and spoken?
yes: bot the written and spoken words from God:
I accept Scripture as the highest authority and the ONLY infallible authority we have.
 
I don't believe that the CCC is infallible.
Then why would you include it your OP?
"So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? "
The answer is obvious : it is not infallible!
(as you just said)
 
yes: bot the written and spoken words from God:
I accept Scripture as the highest authority and the ONLY infallible authority we have.

Thanks for responding. As a nCCs I believed the same thing until I realized that it was my acceptance of the writings of the NT as being the inspired word of God depended on an authority other than scripture. God had to communicate to us what was his inspired word - and the source was the Catholic church.
 
Then why would you include it your OP?
"So given this why would anyone listen to any other sources that contradict scripture and/or the CCC? "
The answer is obvious : it is not infallible!
(as you just said)

Because I believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium:

As Catholics we believe that Jesus gave authority to the Pope/Magisterium. For this reason we listen to what the church teaches concerning the Christian faith. The primary teachings of the Catholic church can be found in Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC).
 
Thanks for responding. As a nCCs I believed the same thing until I realized that it was my acceptance of the writings of the NT as being the inspired word of God depended on an authority other than scripture. God had to communicate to us what was his inspired word - and the source was the Catholic church.
1) Does Moses, Isaiah and David know that?
2) God uses all type of people and organizations to accomplish His will; That does not bestow infallibility upon them

Cyrus did exactly what God wanted to be done (Isaiah 45)
“For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me……..I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,”

Should you become a Persian?

Pharaoh:did exactly what God wanted to be done (Exodus 9:15)
But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

Should you become an Egyptian?

Pilate did exactly what God wanted to be done. (John 19)
Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"
Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above
Should you become a Roman?

Did God use Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate to accomplish His will?
Yes, absolutely.

Were the actions of Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate in accordance with the sovereign plan of God?
Yes, absolutely.

Did Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate do EXACTLY wanted God wanted to be done?
YES, absolutely

Are Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate worthy of any honor, glory, or praise?
NO!

Are Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate infallible?
NO!

The fact that Cyrus , Pilate, and Pharaoh, did EXACTLY want God wanted does NOT mean they are infallible.
right?

The POINT is
that God uses all types of people to accomplish his Sovereign Will; but that does NOT mean those kingdoms, institutions, or people are infallible!
 
1) Does Moses, Isaiah and David know that?
2) God uses all type of people and organizations to accomplish His will; That does not bestow infallibility upon them

Cyrus did exactly what God wanted to be done (Isaiah 45)
“For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen, I summon you by name and bestow on you a title of honor, though you do not acknowledge me……..I will strengthen you, though you have not acknowledged me,”

Should you become a Persian?

Pharaoh:did exactly what God wanted to be done (Exodus 9:15)
But I have raised you up for this very purpose, that I might show you my power and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.

Should you become an Egyptian?

Pilate did exactly what God wanted to be done. (John 19)
Pilate said. "Don't you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?"
Jesus answered, "You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above
Should you become a Roman?

Did God use Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate to accomplish His will?
Yes, absolutely.

Were the actions of Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate in accordance with the sovereign plan of God?
Yes, absolutely.

Did Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate do EXACTLY wanted God wanted to be done?
YES, absolutely

Are Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate worthy of any honor, glory, or praise?
NO!

Are Cyrus, Pharaoh, and Pilate infallible?
NO!

The fact that Cyrus , Pilate, and Pharaoh, did EXACTLY want God wanted does NOT mean they are infallible.
right?

The POINT is
that God uses all types of people to accomplish his Sovereign Will; but that does NOT mean those kingdoms, institutions, or people are infallible!
But if the source is not infallible then we cannot be certain that the writings of the NT are the inspired word of God. The old saying that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. We accept the God's word as the highest and only infallible source but if we don't have God's word that tells us which writings are his inspired word then we what do we have? We don't seem to have much to hang our hat on, right?
 
Thanks for responding. As a nCCs I believed the same thing until I realized that it was my acceptance of the writings of the NT as being the inspired word of God depended on an authority other than scripture. God had to communicate to us what was his inspired word - and the source was the Catholic church.

Hey Cyrus,
thanks for getting the Jews out of Captivity
Hey Pharaoh;
thanks for freeing the Hebrew slaves;
Hey Pilate
Thank for declaring Jesus' innocence..
Hey Catholic Church,
Thanks for recognizing the God-breathed Christian writings:

there ya go:
not what?
 
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