Without Jesus

5wize said:
Not sure what you mean by "modern day Christians". Many modern day Christians adhere to selective salvation.
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Everyone adheres to an illusory selective salvation. The only real difference between modern day atheists and Christians is the acknowledgement of a vague god concept. The atheists have the same concept but they don't acknowledge it.

5wize said:
Not a healthy belief regarding the nature and struggle of humanity.
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It's a manufactured paradigm. The illusion of reality we create. The struggle of humanity? The enemy of the state is the people. The struggle is the dragon the people feed. Stages of "development" represented by the dominant, in order of appearance - religion, politics, consumerism, and science - must have been or are beneficial to the dominant hierarchies. Like a hunting dog bred and trained to go mad for the benefit of it's master. I figured that out by the time I was about 6 or 7 years old. What has always fascinated me about people is that they seem oblivious to this self-evident reality and react to it by opposing it in the guise of manufacturing some quasi alternative. The illusion that the dragon should be trained or fought. What has always fascinated me about what I learned of the Bible is that it's solution differs in that the dragon (in this case not Satan, but his creation, the world) must be starved rather than trained or fought. That's the difference, as I see the proffered solutions, between God and man.

5wize said:
Life is hard enough for Christian and non-Christian alike without having to then take on some belief about a sub-optimum and eternal state after death too. Kind of gratuitously malicious.
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Sub-optimum? How is it sub-optimum? And what about the eternal state prior to death?

5wize said:
No, a random child being coerced by threats.
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That's parenting. Education. Watch out for the boogey man. What's the boogey man. Something we created to control you remotely.

5wize said:
Atheism hardly has an equivalent to eternal and conscious damnation.
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Nuclear winter, survival of the fittest. The Bible doesn't teach that we or our immortal souls are literally eternally consciously tormented. In the 30 years I've been doing this "Christians" have gone from hellfire to the kinder and gentler lake of fire or separation from God. If they continue their education it will be the atheists, not the "Christians" who cling doggedly to the theological eternal and conscious damnation. It's ideology. It doesn't really mean much of anything.

5wize said:
But I would agree that for some, death without some type of soul continuation is very scary, but at least it's an honest belief based on what we actually can know.
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That's odd. How is it scary? Because of the nonsense we're trained to believe. Edward Bernays. Gargle with this floor cleaner and be obsessed about daily bathing rituals we pulled out of our ass after 6,000 years. 4 out of 5 dermatologists or dentists recommend . . . why not 4 out of 10? Who pays them and how does their alleged recommendations benefit them. Inject this cow pus into your child's body. Don't ask questions. Don't look at disease since the dark ages from animals, take this vaccine of animal disease and don't pay any attention to what it spreads, just pony up some cash for the treatment of the symptoms - perpetually in the name of science. Just follow the science. Autism, dementia, Alzheimer's, juvenile diabetes, allergies, asthma, crohn's disease, cancer - gettin' better all the time. Proliferating. 10 out of 10 doctors recommend vaccination. Poison our air, food, water and medicine and someone's going to make some cash.

What happened to art? What happened to music, film, freedom and democracy? What happened to God and what happened to science? We sold it out for a pile of cash. Take a bungee jump off this bridge or take a rocket ride into the void of space. [Expletive] morality, [expletive] mortality!

But that's just the optimist in me . . .

5wize said:
But you do here. Why? You've asked this of others... have you asked it of yourself?
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I've stated multiple reasons repeatedly. Jordan Peterson wrote: "You can only find out what you actually believe (rather than what you think you believe) by watching how you act. You simply don’t know what you believe, before that. You are too complex to understand yourself." My primary motive, as far as I can tell, is exploring alternate beliefs (mostly atheistic) to provide myself with objectivity. I can't do that as well on my own, though I'm pretty good at looking at multiple angles and possibilities. Feedback. Also I'm arrogant and opinionated.

5wize said:
That is lost to history for all (as much as I think you want to preserve some capacity of ancient biblical interpretation for yourself). All we have is this contemporary experience to rely on to discern the nature of life, god, whatever. That was, after all, simply what the hebrews of the OT and NT were engaged in.
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That seems to me a low resolution image provided by a conjectural and biased paradigm.

5wize said:
There is salvation in just letting go.
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The Four Noble Truths. "When you find yourself attached, remember that letting go is not getting rid of or throwing away. If I'm holding onto this clock and you say, "Let go of it," that doesn't mean throw it out. I might think that I have to throw it away because I'm attached to it, but that would just be the desire to get rid of it. We tend to think that getting rid of the object is a way of getting rid of attachment. But if I can contemplate attachment, this grasping of the clock, I realize that there is no point in getting rid of it - it's a good clock; it keeps good time and is not heavy to carry around. The clock is not the problem. The problem is grasping the clock. So, what do I do? Let it go, lay it aside - put it down gently without any kind of aversion. Then I can pick it up again, see what time it is and lay it aside when necessary."

5wize said:
That's what Christianity offers on the other side of damnation. Psychological relief from trouble.
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Really? Christianity's primary tenets have become transmogrified. That's the first problem with judging it. You can't judge it without acknowledging at least that obvious fact. Satan and Adam were created "perfect" meaning having great potential. The goal had been reached by Satan and was examined by Adam with little reason to subvert it. So, either the psychological relief you suggest is a farce, and as presented it is or at the very least myopic. So is there the possibility of trouble "on the other side of damnation"? Well, there isn't any on that side of it, but any trouble that could arise, having been greatly minimized, would, I suppose, be dealt with quickly and accordingly. But that's anecdotal.

5wize said:
It doesn't matter whether the belief is true as long as it is efficient to that end.
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It never does.

5wize said:
It is, however, unnecessary to that end. Many avenues are available for the relief of personal shame or trial.
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Example of how that is relevant?
 
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Eightcrackers said:
I can't believe you typed this out for public consumption.
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Do you not see the "mark" emerging? Was John simply "lucky" in his guess when he wrote Rev 13?

You might want to understand just where our current technology stands.

There's much more. But as you refuse to see a growing one world goverment plan, a one world monetary plan as well as a one world religious plan...provided you survive to that portion of the tribulation...you'll get it then....and joyfully accept it.
 
Semmelweis Reflex said:
Electric cars the coal powered grid can't sustain etc.
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I'm not opposed to electric cars...like a FWD Jeep with big gnarly tires they have their place.
What is true is that the current grid....powerlines...as well as electric production, coal, gas, nuke etc. won't be able to keep up with the demand....which seems to be forced upon us with laws that eliminate the internal combustion engine.
But maybe, just maybe the "cabal" wants to crash the economy...keep you from traveling...whatever.
If that's the case getting rid ouf coal and gas is a great means to acheive that purpose.
 
CrowCross said:
What you are saying is that you can't envision a cashless society. You have poor sight my friend.
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Any idiot can envision a cashless society.
Indeed, some Bible-writing idiot/s did.

What I can't envision is that a cashless society is some sort of harbinger of doom.
 
Eightcrackers said:
Any idiot can envision a cashless society.
Indeed, some Bible-writing idiot/s did.
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Idiots? Why do you feel the need to spread such hate?
Eightcrackers said:
What I can't envision is that a cashless society is some sort of harbinger of doom.
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I know you can't envision it...as I said earlier...you have no sight.

Imagine..if you have that ability..to imagine a financial system tied to a central computer....where every purchase you make is tracked (pretty much here now when you use a credit card)...and they have the ability to turn on and off your account (like they did to the canadian truckers) if you are opposed to their rules....where you have an implanted interface of some sort that is scanned....and you can't buy or sell with out this "mark".

But as you said above...."I do not see the "mark" emerging."

You seem to be a prime candidate for the support of the beast system....though you can't see it.

I have a suggestion for you....WAKE UP.
 
CrowCross said:
Imagine..if you have that ability..to imagine a financial system tied to a central computer....where every purchase you make is tracked (pretty much here now when you use a credit card)...and they have the ability to turn on and off your account (like they did to the canadian truckers) if you are opposed to their rules....where you have an implanted interface of some sort that is scanned....and you can't buy or sell with out this "mark".
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I don't see how any of this, if true, would relate to Satan, or Jesus.
 
Eightcrackers said:
I don't see how any of this, if true, would relate to Satan, or Jesus.
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Of course you don't...or won't.....the system still in it's infancy (maybe it's a toddler or young adult now) has already been spelled out to you...Rev 13 speaks of the aformentioned beast system.

Lets not forget about what Big Pharma is doing to us....The bible even speaks of them.
Rev 9:21 Furthermore, they did not repent of their murder, sorcery, sexual immorality, and theft.

Should we speak of the Jews returning to their land? (1948)
The third temple? (still to be built)
Knowledge and traveling increasing? yes, a bit vague..but happening.
Peace and safety?
How about this predicted alliance?
 
mikeT said:
This is ambiguously-worded. Are you saying there are as many evangelizing hedonists/nihilists as evangelizing Christians/atheists? Or are you saying evangelizing Christians/atheists ARE the evangelizing hedonists/nihilists?
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I'm saying everyone's group wants to rule the world.

mikeT said:
I would disagree with both. And when it comes to evangelizing, Christians are in the super-majority...
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In theory? Perhaps. In practice, no. Anyway it doesn't work. @treeplanter has an emotional attachment to the past and future which doesn't exist. What about the children?! Religion was designed to control people. What nonsense.

Look at their faces.

 
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