SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
If the Father saved Him He would not have been crucified. You have no clue.
Why God isn't, can't become man?
- Thread starter Jewjitzu
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Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Rotfl... and if Jesus saved us, none of us would die.
Hebrews 5:7
During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Open Heart
Well-known member
Just because the Bible records someone doing something, doesn't mean that God condones it.
Chapter 5 is way too large a section for me to try to search for whatever it is you are referring to.
Lev 12:7-8 Deals with ritual impurity and how to restore ritual purity in a given case. It has nothing to do with atonement for intentional sin.
Lev 14 and 15, are again way too large a passage for me to look into. It would be helpful if in the future, you quoted the exact verses you are using to document your position.
I don't see it. Can you please quote it and show me where you think it says anything about deceiving his neighbor. Thanks.
Again, I'm not going to search through an entire chapter, trying to mind read what you think the pertinent verse is.
This is a situation where the status of the woman is not clear. So yes, it would be considered unintentional.
I think this is being figurative here. I can see where if you take it literally, it would make your point.
Prayer is considered the appropriate substitute for all sacrifices. Remember that most of the sacrifices were not sin offerings.I also found this while trying to understand the Jewish understanding of atonement, "The general rabbinic approach was to deritualize atonement and center it more on the personal religious life of the individual in his relationship to God: "Now that we have no prophet or priest or sacrifice, who shall atone for us? In our hands is left only – prayer" (Tanḥ. Va-Yishlaḥ. 10)" https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/atonement). Is prayer here only for unintentional sins?
(On a side note, now I understand how important atonement is for Yom Kippur... which I'm sure a child who spoke Hebrew would laugh at me for not knowing
Yeah! Of course!
I figure this one could go either way. I mention the case in 2 Samuel 21 because they exposed the bodies before the LORD (21:6, 9)
and after that (V14) "God answered prayer in behalf of the land." I grant that it was after "the bones of Saul and his son Jonathan" were buried, etc, but the punishment revolved around the Gibeonites, not the burial location of Saul and his family, which would tell me that everything that transpires in the chapter from V6-14 was condoned by God.
I could be wrong, though.
Okay, I'll do my best to be more exact. But I think that this might get bogged down by too many verses so I'll let these go and try to be more conscientious about intent when looking at these.
I had verses 2-5 in mind. For example,
Lev 6:2 "If anyone sins and is unfaithful to the LORD by deceiving his neighbor about something entrusted to him or left in his care or stolen, or if he cheats him,
It seems to me that verses 2-5 are intentional sins.
To be more specific Leviticus 16:10, 20-22 talks about atonement for all sins.
10 But the goat chosen by lot as the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD to be used for making atonement by sending it into the desert as a scapegoat....
20 "When Aaron has finished making atonement for the Most Holy Place, the Tent of Meeting and the altar, he shall bring forward the live goat.
21 He is to lay both hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the wickedness and rebellion of the Israelites-- all their sins-- and put them on the goat's head. He shall send the goat away into the desert in the care of a man appointed for the task.
22 The goat will carry on itself all their sins to a solitary place; and the man shall release it in the desert.
"All" doesn't differentiate between intentional and unintentional sins.
"'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom,
Unless there's something lost in the translation, I don't see what you're saying in the text. The way I read it is that what determines the punishment is her status, not whether he knew her status.
Okay, that's for answering my question.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
With Jesus as your Lord and Savior you will never die You will have eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Rotfl... this is false as even today Christians die all of the time.
Psalm 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Jesus needed help himself.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Rotfl... this is false as even today Christians die all of the time.
Psalm 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Jesus needed help himself.
1 John 2
Jesus Is Our Helper
2 My dear children, I write this letter to you so you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have a helper in the presence of the Father—Jesus Christ, the One who does what is right. 2 He died in our place to take away our sins, and not only our sins but the sins of all people. Jewjitzu you need Jesus help. Repent before its to late.!!!!!
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Sorry, but no human takes away our sins. You're responsible for your own, Ezekiel 18.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Funny your high priests do on the day of atonement.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
No, they submit sacrifices on our behalf. They don't die for our sins. Do you understand the difference?Funny your high priests do on the day of atonement.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Jesus died for your sins. It was the only perfect sacrifice that was acceptable to God. There is no other way. Your High Priests sacrifices just covered their sins but did not atone for them. Yes I know the difference.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
You do know that Tanakh says the sacrifices atoned for sins. Why are you being dishonest when it's easy to verify this is true?
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Leviticus 17:11
11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Open Heart
Well-known member
How does this support your point that the sacrifices did not atone for sins?
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
This contradicts what you said earlier. Not only that, but the blood must be upon an altar to be acceptable. Jesus' blood wasn't.
Thanks for playing. See you later.
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Yes the blood was than taken by angels and spread out over the mercy seat.This contradicts what you said earlier. Not only that, but the blood must be upon an altar to be acceptable. Jesus' blood wasn't.
Thanks for playing. See you later.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
No it wasn't. Why are you being dishonest about this?
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Leviticus 17:11 to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 12 states clearly that the Old Testament blood sacrifices were temporary and only atoned for sin partially and for a short time, hence the need to repeat the sacrifices yearly. But when Christ entered the Most Holy Place, He did so to offer His own blood once for all time, making future sacrifices unnecessary. This is what Jesus meant by His dying words on the cross: “It is finished” (John 19:30). Never again would the blood of bulls and goats cleanse men from their sin. Only by accepting Jesus’ blood, shed on the cross for the remission of sins, can we stand before God covered in the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).
SPOKENWORD
Well-known member
Leviticus 17:11 to the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ. Verse 12 states clearly that the Old Testament blood sacrifices were temporary and only atoned for sin partially and for a short time, hence the need to repeat the sacrifices yearly. But when Christ entered the Most Holy Place, He did so to offer His own blood once for all time, making future sacrifices unnecessary. This is what Jesus meant by His dying words on the cross: “It is finished” (John 19:30). Never again would the blood of bulls and goats cleanse men from their sin. Only by accepting Jesus’ blood, shed on the cross for the remission of sins, can we stand before God covered in the righteousness of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21).As important as the spilling of Jesus' holy blood was in the accomplishing of His work of atonement and redemption, He did not need to ascend to heaven with His blood and sprinkle it literally on the ark of the covenant in heaven. Why? Because the heavenly tabernacle is heaven itself, where God dwells in unapproachable light. Jesus' precious blood cleared the way for sinners to be fully reconciled to a holy God. (Taken from Stack Exchange)
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Jewjitzu
Well-known member
This has nothing to do with Jesus as human sacrifices were forbidden. You're being dishonest yet again.
Lev 17:12 doesn't say that at all.
False. As Jeremiah 33:16-26, Ezekiel 37-45, clearly show the sacrifices and Levitical Priesthood returning, and the prince sacrificing for himself.
This doesn't help you as the sacrifices if acceptable, were to be brought to the temple altar in Jerusalem. Taken from Tanakh.
So you admit he didn't fulfill the commandment.BTW, Jesus depended on his parents for at least 3 commandments including circumcision, redemption, and consecration. He depended on their righteousness.
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