A tale of two statements

Considering that you've become tangentially unrelated to the point of where you want to spend your eternity, I'm not bothered by your complaint here.
And that is why you will continue missing the point.

I've spent years explaining.
You have refused to listen, and run amok with tangential rabbit trails.
I'm not concerned with years Steve. I'm concerned with this thread and trying to follow your wondering train of thought.

God's Spirit affirms his Word, and encourages us, in our obedience to his Word.
That's called confirmation bias.

Perfect example of a tangential rabbit trail.
Faith IS the assurance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.

Ever flown a plane? Ever heard of IFR? Instrument Flight Rules.
It's the way pilots fly in storms, and conditions where they are not able to use their senses.

They have to depend on the instruments to fly.
It's the same with biblical christianity.
We follow Jesus by using the bible. I.e., the bible is our IFR.

Faith IS the assurance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
Consider the IFR example.
Better yet, go talk with a commercial pilot who has flown via IFR.
Ever been in a flight simulator Steve?
You get the same readings but your not actually going anywhere.



Which goes to the point of- you had faith that the individual who handed you the key gave you the right key, for that particular door.
The assurance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen.

The assurance was demonstrated by you inserting the key into the lock, and rotating it.

Its working confirmed that it was the right key, and you could then have confidence that it was the right key for that door, and from that point forward, be confident.

You exhibited faith in the initial experience of taking the key, inserting it into the keyhole, and rotating.
Had it not fit the hole, or fit, and not rotated, then you would have learned it was not the right key.
But each step you took demonstrated that you expressed faith, and then you received the assurance that your faith was well-placed and the evidence of things not previously seen.
The fit of the key, and the key's rotating in the keyhole.
The door unlocking/opening is the proof.
Jesus said that he is the door, and by him alone we access God.
By calling on his name, and believing him, we are inserting the key into the door lock, and then turning it, and opening the door.
The right key to the right door.
My assurance in the door analogy is that the door is actually there and opens.
IF it doesn't should I just keep on trying?
Or should I listen to the real estate agent when I tell them the key doesn't work and they come back with "The owner says it does".

With Jesus I'm not seeing a door and nothing is opening?
Am I just to wander around forever with this "key" regardless?

If you say so. I think it's the result of experiencing success in previous endeavors. The bible says that confidence is the result of righteousness.

Isa 32:17 WEB The work of righteousness will be peace, and the effect of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.

Isa 30:15 WEB For thus said the Lord Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, “You will be saved in returning and rest. Your strength will be in quietness and in confidence.”......

Confidence is based on experience. On experiencing success and failures. You learn what works, and doesn't work. You continue to do what works, and learn a different way of doing what failed so you can succeed and do what works.
And nothing your Bible says seems to work so why should I continue?

In learning to do what Jesus said, I learn that I can rest in peace doing what Jesus said because it works, and I can have confidence in him.
In doing this, he demonstrates himself to us. We actually experience peace with him. We actually experience His presence in our lives. We actually experience His joy in our hearts. By learning to follow Jesus and do what he said is right, we experience him
Paul describes in Philippians 3, we experience being conformed to his death, so we may experience the power of his resurrection.
In 2 Corinthians 1, Romans 8, 2 Corinthians 4, we experience the struggles and heartaches of being people who follow Jesus, and in this God demonstrates himself faithful to his word and he comforts, encourages, strengthens and establishes us.
You learned to do what Jesus said after you told yourself that God was real.

If you actually have a man made device to do so.
It's invisible to the human eye.
Is there a man made device with which to see God?

Where I come from, the initial experience is that of "taking a chance."
I took a chance with my wife when we first met.
I took a chance at applying for jobs. I took a chance at buying a car. I took a chance at driving. I took a chance at buying a house. I've taken a lot of chances in my life. Some succeeded. Some failed.
Those which succeeded encouraged me, and gave me confidence. Those which failed, and mattered to me, I moved into learning a different way, or just moved into something else entirely.
For me God didn't work so I "moved into something else entirely. "

Plainly perceived by engaging Jesus on his terms.
No. You didn't. You asked if God was real or just BS. If you had got no response you would have moved on.

Actually, it just means that you don't want it to be true.
Actually I want evidential proof that the claim is true?
You are willing to accept it simply because you want it to be true.

What I perceived in considering the nighttime sky was awe, and wonder.
How could something so profound come into existence.

The idea that it just magically appeared never actually occurred to me.
The idea that it just magically appeared never actually occurred to me.
Being created by a God sounds like magic.
 
After 4 years I was just beginning to get intrigued.
Did any of those 4 years of private education include encouragement to actually do anything the bible describes?
Things that would provide demonstration that God would do something on your behalf, today?
Or was your 4 years of private education just talking about a book that God did stuff for people a very long time ago, but he doesn't actually do anything for people today?
It was traditional. Missouri Synod. Encouraged to not just recite the creed, but live and believe it.
Sounds like you're bothered by the idea that God actually works on behalf of, and in the lives of those who believe him.... today.
Belief works the same way in everyone that believes regardless of the belief. You have a false one. That doesn't mean it won't have an internalized effect on you like all other cult believers. They all writhe and chant and pray and speak gibberish just like you.
 
If you put logical thought into it then His existence isn't fairly obvious. Generally speaking, logically you should proportion your beliefs to the evidence. There is no evidence that shows God exists, but there is evidence that you infer God exists from. That inference is a leap of faith from what we actually know.
Less of a leap of faith than atheists.
 
This above says it all. ”Normally”, …”normally”, you say, God leaves the universe alone except when he raised from the dead up to 50 human beings.

it is obvious from the rest of your post that you have no clue what the difference is between actual evidence and your opinions. But you do you. Good luck with that.
Well why dont you present your evidence?
 
Well why dont you present your evidence?
The evidence is in the science textbooks, publications, and online public databases (eg., PubMed), the world over, but you turn your nose up at them because you would rather believe in superstitions and myths which are nothing more than bad interpretations of scriptures. Whereas, they were meant to be allegorized: “Now this may be allegorized” (Gal 4:24).
 
And that is why you will continue missing the point.
Oh, your point is eternally clear.
You think that your ignoring the cross of Jesus is a justifiable excuse.

I'm not concerned with years Steve. I'm concerned with this thread and trying to follow your wondering train of thought.
Then I'd say that you should focus.

That's called confirmation bias.
Really?

Ever been in a flight simulator Steve?
Nope. I'm not a game player.
You get the same readings but your not actually going anywhere.
I actually prefer going somewhere. It's far more enjoyable.

IFR still requires that you trust the instruments to guide you.
It's what faith is.
You either believe them, or you will find out at the moment you crash you're dead.



My assurance in the door analogy is that the door is actually there and opens.
Which is exactly what Jesus does for those who believe him.
He is after all the door to God.
Exactly as stated in the bible.

IF it doesn't should I just keep on trying?
Then don't.
I think everyone who actually wants to perish should be able to do what they want. Even though they'll rue the day they realize they were wrong.
Jesus did after all say...
If anyone WANTS to be my follower must deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow him.
As the old joke goes....
Yagottahavawantu!
If you don't want to spend your eternity in paradise, then you're not going to follow Jesus.

Or should I listen to the real estate agent when I tell them the key doesn't work and they come back with "The owner says it does".
You'd be the first to have succeeded in doing so.
Jesus has been doing exactly what he says he will for millennia.
So.... if you don't actually want to know him, then don't.
It's your eternity.

With Jesus I'm not seeing a door and nothing is opening?
Am I just to wander around forever with this "key" regardless?
Not if you actually engage him on his terms.
Did it ever occur to you that you have previously decided that you know better and don't actually want to do what Jesus said?
What do you think "pick up your cross and deny yourself daily" means?
It means that you don't try to figure it out for yourself.
YHVH was quite clear about this.

Pro 3:5-8 WEB 5 Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, and don’t lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. 7 Don’t be wise in your own eyes. Fear Yahweh, and depart from evil. 8 It will be health to your body, and nourishment to your bones.

He tells us that we have to trust him, and not lean on our own understanding.
It's like the IFR of piloting.

We absolutely cannot rely on our own senses, and perceptions. Flying in conditions where IFR is the only way to get to your destination, alive, is exactly like trusting Jesus to save us and guide us through this life and make certain that we get to heaven when we die.




And nothing your Bible says seems to work so why should I continue?
It doesn't work according to your perspective.
You're leaning on your own bias and preconceptions.
Jesus said that unless we deny ourselves and pick up our cross, we CANNOT be his student/apprentice/followers!
As long as you continue to lean on your own understanding, you'll miss it.
It's an IFR flight!

You learned to do what Jesus said after you told yourself that God was real.
That's YOUR opinion.
YHVH demonstrated himself real and knowable.
Exactly as the bible says he would.
My belief is based entirely on what YHVH has explicitly stated and then demonstrated.
It's this way for everyone who comes to him on his terms.
Is there a man made device with which to see God?
Not that I've ever heard of.
How do you think that you could see God when he inhabits eternity and holds the entirety of the cosmos in the span of his hand?
Do you think that you could actually perceive someone who is so huge, without him making himself known to you?

For me God didn't work so I "moved into something else entirely. "
Bye.

No. You didn't. You asked if God was real or just BS. If you had got no response you would have moved on.
And YHVH demonstrated himself knowable and real to me.
So, if you don't actually want to know, then why are you on this forum arguing about what you didn't experience?
Seems like you have a cognitive dissonance issue.

Actually I want evidential proof that the claim is true?
Do what Jesus said.
Not what you THINK he said, but what he actually said!
You are willing to accept it simply because you want it to be true.
That's your problem.
You are willing to accept as fact what you want to be true because you are willing to take your inexperience as you want.

The idea that it just magically appeared never actually occurred to me.
That's not what I read in your posts.
Being created by a God sounds like magic.
Then I'd say that you have a twisted and corrupt view of the True and Living God.
 
That says a lot.
To someone who is afraid to consider their inexperience is their sole defense, that's not surprising.
You dodge everyone's posts in the same way.
It's not a dodge.
I'm taking them/you as seriously as you want to be taken.

Since you refuse to take YHVH seriously, you make it clear that you don't actually want to be taken seriously.

You're doing this to yourselves.

So, still no evidence you have the slightest clue you understand what the video you posted is saying about logic.
🤣
Your idea of logic is like the scale of the microbe to the world.

You don't actually want to see.
 
It was traditional. Missouri Synod. Encouraged to not just recite the creed, but live and believe it.
Ok. I am not, nor have I ever been a Lutheran. I had to go read up on it.

Having been acquainted with people of numerous different denominational affiliations, the questions are numerous.

Luther I am acquainted with. He was a catholic priest who, after having read the letter of Paul to the Romans, had a falling out with the church due to his own experience with Jesus.
So profound was his experience with Jesus that he stood against the might and power of the catholic church.

So far the only thing you have described to me was that you spent 4 years in an educational institution that taught you the Lutheran beliefs.

But according to you, you never actually experienced Jesus.

This makes me wonder why you think that your lack of experience is proof God isn't real?
Luther wasn't all that impressive that he could muster the courage to stand up against a 1200-1400 year old institution.

That kind of courage is a God thing.
The kind of political power held by the catholic government could crush a man like a tiny sugar ant. They could ruin a man with little to no thought.
Yet Luther succeeded in his stance.

So, what did you miss, that he found?

Perhaps you should read Romans and the gospel of John again. But this time, actually talking to God from the point of acknowledging your lack.





Belief works the same way in everyone that believes regardless of the belief.
So, your belief is exactly the same?

You have a false one.
Sounds like you're talking about yourself.

That doesn't mean it won't have an internalized effect on you like all other cult believers.
Which would be?

They all writhe and chant and pray and speak gibberish just like you.
Ironically, I've never been one to writhe, or chant.
Tried the chanting thing back in the 80's when chanting became a thing. In reading the bible regarding prayer and praise.... Jesus was pretty clear.

Don't think that your many words will make you heard, like the pagans do....

Pity you never actually read that.
Or did the Lutherans tell you to writhe, and chant?
 
To someone who is afraid to consider their inexperience is their sole defense, that's not surprising.

It's not a dodge.
I'm taking them/you as seriously as you want to be taken.

Since you refuse to take YHVH seriously, you make it clear that you don't actually want to be taken seriously.

You're doing this to yourselves.


🤣
Your idea of logic is like the scale of the microbe to the world.

You don't actually want to see.
Still no indication from you that you have the slightest understanding of the video you linked to.
 
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