Are we saved by our own efforts or are we saved by God's efforts ?

[eternomade]

You have just told us that the Bible is being pointless to encourage evangelism.

The natural mind will see it this way.

I believe Saints should attempt to obey all the new testament imperatives, including Matthew 28:19.

When I evangelize, I tell people what Christ did for His people on Calvary. Some will hate this message and some will embrace it. The Gospel will harden the reprobate but God's sheep hear this message and rejoice.

 

[Arikel88]

Explain it again eternomade pls some spots you missed ! ?

 

[eternomade]

Explain it again eternomade pls some spots you missed ! ?

I do not understand your comment, sorry.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

The natural mind will see it this way.

I believe Saints should attempt to obey all the new testament imperatives, including Matthew 28:19.

When I evangelize, I tell people what Christ did for His people on Calvary. Some will hate this message and some will embrace it. The Gospel will harden the reprobate but God's sheep hear this message and rejoice.

If they were saved at the cross, you are doing useless redundant work.

 

[eternomade]

If they were saved at the cross, you are doing useless redundant work.

If Abraham was saved before Christs death, then Christ did useless redundant work...

Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.


13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

If Abraham was saved before Christs death, then Christ did useless redundant work...

Hebrews 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.


13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Nothing teaches that Abraham was saved before Jesus died for him, His faith was counted as righteousness, but until Jesus made an atonement, God's wrath had not been soothed. It takes faith on our part and the Blood of Christ on His part

 

[Arikel88]

You need to read more the bible and find more verses your incomplete ! I started way before you pup and your just breaking thru G-d efforts .

 

[Alexander the adequate]

You need to read more the bible and find more verses your incomplete ! I started way before you pup and your just breaking thru G-d efforts .

People will not know who you are responding to unless you keep a reference to their post

 

[Arikel88]

Eterno guy not you buddy.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?

Only those who first DENY themselves will be saved. Jesus said so. Denying yourself rules out being saved by your own efforts.

 

[shnarkle]

Hello Keiw, I have a question or two for you about v21. Here's v21 again, along with the short passage that it's taken from.

Matthew 7​

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.​

22 Many will say to Me on that day, ~‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’~​

23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’​

You said that obedience/doing the will of the Father is the key to our being able to enter His Kingdom. I don't disagree, but what of the folks in the following verse, those who the Lord ends up sending into the Lake of Fire Which of their deeds (see v22 above) resulted in them being condemned/sent into the Lake of Fire, instead of into God's Kingdom

Everything that the folks in v22 mentioned doing seem to be acts of obedience on their part, yes, acts that they did in the Lord's very Name, in point of fact. So, if obedience is the key to entering God's Kingdom, why didn't it work for them Were they not obedient "enough" perhaps?

The passage presented contrasts "the will of my father" with the question, "did we not ...in your name?" The answer is a resounding "NO!" They did not do anything in Christ's name. Christ never gave them the authority to cast out demons or prophecy anything. Those who have been given authority carry out the will of the father "in Christ's name", but too many people assume that this simply means that if I say the magic words, "in Christ's name" then it will be done. They don't see that these words do not give one authority. It's the other way around. They are given authority first, then they carry out God's will.

 

[Our Lord's God]

The passage presented contrasts "the will of my father" with the question, "did we not ...in your name?" The answer is a resounding "NO!" They did not do anything in Christ's name. Christ never gave them the authority to cast out demons or prophecy anything.

Correct

Those who have been given authority carry out the will of the father "in Christ's name", but too many people assume that this simply means that if I say the magic words, "in Christ's name" then it will be done. They don't see that these words do not give one authority. It's the other way around. They are given authority first, then they carry out God's will.

Correct.

The people that make such arguments are the same as the wicked people Jesus is talking about. They supposed that if they, by an act of their own will, decided to do this, or do that, that they were doing the will of God. They weren't. The will of God is not doing what YOU decide to do to please God but what GOD first decides that you shall do.

Those who are not born from above have great difficulty comprehending this basic thing.

 

[keiw]

Where are you in the world did you get saved because you wanted or because you asked for it ? Can we be saved because Jesus wanted it or becuase you were destined tell you own testimony how you are saved ? Tell us how you were saved and what you wanted was by your will or by God's will. Because you can't be saved by your own efforts only by God's who put you in your life ?

It takes effort on our part. Jesus was clear--Matt 7:21--Only those living to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom--That entails-Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God--means learned and applied to the best of ones ability= OT-NT years and years of study, it never stops. Thats effort. Few have bothered. Probably why Jesus teaches-FEW will find the road that leads off into life.
If one has teachers that assures them you are saved, yet has no clue if those study Gods word carefully--RUN FROM THEM, they are the blind guides. In fact the real teachers that Jesus is with, teach every utterance from God to their flock without fail. All can look right now and see if their teacher has Jesus or not. The ones asking for a tithe are blind guides as well.

 

[keiw]

The passage presented contrasts "the will of my father" with the question, "did we not ...in your name?" The answer is a resounding "NO!" They did not do anything in Christ's name. Christ never gave them the authority to cast out demons or prophecy anything. Those who have been given authority carry out the will of the father "in Christ's name", but too many people assume that this simply means that if I say the magic words, "in Christ's name" then it will be done. They don't see that these words do not give one authority. It's the other way around. They are given authority first, then they carry out God's will.

Jesus gives the answer in verse 22-23 of Matt 7--they worked iniquity= practiced a sin.

 

[Our Lord's God]

It takes effort on our part. Jesus was clear--Matt 7:21--Only those living to do his Fathers will get to enter his kingdom--That entails-Man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God

Right.

--means learned and applied to the best of ones ability= OT-NT years and years of study, it never stops.

No. That would be Gnosticism.

Thats effort. Few have bothered. Probably why Jesus teaches-FEW will find the road that leads off into life.

No. Jesus explains why and your reason is not it. It isn't about studying a book forever and ever.

Many of the first Christians couldn't even read and they didn't really have that much times on their hands anyway.

If one has teachers that assures them you are saved, yet has no clue if those study Gods word carefully--RUN FROM THEM, they are the blind guides. In fact the real teachers that Jesus is with, teach every utterance from God to their flock without fail. All can look right now and see if their teacher has Jesus or not. The ones asking for a tithe are blind guides as well.

How about those whose teacher is God Himself?

 

[keiw]

Right.



No. That would be Gnosticism.



No. Jesus explains why and your reason is not it. It isn't about studying a book forever and ever.

Many of the first Christians couldn't even read and they didn't really have that much times on their hands anyway.



How about those whose teacher is God Himself?

True followers make the time because they obey Jesus who teaches--Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST - the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added(sustenance, covering, spirituality)
Blind guides teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first because they do not listen to Jesus.

 

[Our Lord's God]

True followers make the time because they obey Jesus who teaches--Matt 6:33--Therefore, keep on seeking- FIRST - the kingdom and his ( YHWH(Jehovah) righteousness and all these things will be added(sustenance, covering, spirituality)

True followers of Jesus are led by the Spirit of God, and as such, they are taught by God Himself.

Blind guides teach to seek Jesus' righteousness first because they do not listen to Jesus.

Is Jesus not our righteousness?

 

[keiw]

True followers of Jesus are led by the Spirit of God, and as such, they are taught by God Himself.



Is Jesus not our righteousness?

Few have Gods spirit guiding them. And Jesus appointed his teachers here in these last days-Matt 24:45--Truth is revealed through them. Rejecting those teachers is the same as rejecting Jesus and God and vica versa. Luke 10:16

 

[Our Lord's God]

Few have Gods spirit guiding them.

If you do not have the Spirit of Christ then you do not belong to him.

And Jesus appointed his teachers here in these last days-Matt 24:45--Truth is revealed through them. Rejecting those teachers is the same as rejecting Jesus and God and vica versa. Luke 10:16

There are many false teachers who claim to be the teachers appointed by Christ.

 

[Alkaline_9.5]

Few have Gods spirit guiding them. And Jesus appointed his teachers here in these last days-Matt 24:45--Truth is revealed through them. Rejecting those teachers is the same as rejecting Jesus and God and vica versa. Luke 10:16

Where our treasure is, there is the heart. So if we find treasure in any person's or teachers's words, then that is what we might be given by God to hear. But not all of it, because no one is exactly like you.