Time to ‘Stop’ Zelensky!

1. NATO has accomplished its goal of peddling more arms to more countries so they can make profit off death and destruction.

2. Not only the suffering of the Ukrainians, but the economic suffering of the global community.

3. This has nothing to do with peace. The real reality is this is old fashioned war profiteering.

4) Or these idiots will escalate the war causing hundreds of millions of deaths while they stay safe in their tax dollar payed bunkers!!!

5. They are one and the same.

I'd like to add a 6. These idiotic Ukrainian supporters asking for more military support from the west should be protesting for peace not war! The ones protesting are the ones that have the most to gain from this war, They aren't on the front lines, or they'd be asking for a QUICK diplomatic solution!!!

"The billions shift from side to side
As the wars go on with brainwashed pride
With no love of God or human rights
And all these things are swept aside
By bloody hands time can't deny
And are washed away by your genocide

And history hides the lies of our civil wars"

Guns N Roses
 
The world is not a plaything of Russia and the US.
Yet it is NATO fighting a war with Russia on Russias border, not the other way around. NATO presumes the world is its ”plaything”, as you say, to dominate.
Ukraine is a sovereign country, entitled to determine its own direction, its own allies and its own policy. The notion that the west is the aggressor here is dangerous nonsense, straight out of the Russian playbook.
Wake up, Temujin. If NATO is funding the war in Ukraine and arming Ukraine against Russia then NATO is acting aggressively towards Russia. That is aggression. NATO is not sending daisies to Ukraine, but weapons to kill Russians. Only an irrational person would deny that. But why am I not surprised coming from you who thinks killing babies is human right. No aggression there either, huh, Temujin?

The Cold War was thirty years ago.
And yet here we are reigniting the Cold War with not only Russia but China too, who happens to be on a national military building project of their own. No surprise given that the leader of NATO recently told the Chinese that he plans to arm Taiwan against them too, a territory that the UN agrees belongs to China. Duh!

Nuclear weapons are unuseable. By anybody.
Except history says otherwise. Keep living in your imaginary world.
 
Yet it is NATO fighting a war with Russia on Russias border, not the other way around. NATO presumes the world is its ”plaything”, as you say, to dominate.
Wrong. NATO is not fighting a war. NATO is avoiding fighting a war and has shown no aggression whatever. It is enabling a sovereign country to defend itself, because failure to do so would have a catastrophic effect on neighbouring states, many of which are in NATO.

Wake up, Temujin. If NATO is funding the war in Ukraine and arming Ukraine against Russia then NATO is acting aggressively towards Russia. That is aggression.
This is not aggression. Russia has invaded Ukraine.
That's aggression. Russia can end the conflict at any time it wants to. "
NATO is not sending daisies to Ukraine, but weapons to kill Russians. Only an irrational person would deny that. But why am I not surprised coming from you who thinks killing babies is human right. No aggression there either, huh, Temujin?
The only Russians that are getting killed are those engaged in an illegal invasion. No Russians on Ukrainian soul, no Russians get killed...

Compare an illegal war together with genocidal war crimes, with a legal medical procedure, however controversial, is ridiculous. And extremely disappointing. I had more respect for you than that. Nif you want to discuss abortion I'm happy to do so, but trying to link it to the war on Ukraine is just pathetic.
 
Backing a nuclear armed power into its corner is not a good strategy either.

Unless the aggressor, Russia, is using its nuclear deterrent as a nuclear threat to bully its neighbors to comply - or else. The nations of the world will not bow and cower into a corner.

Ask yourself, who is sticking their nose into the other nation’s business?

When a neighbor asks for help because a bully and a thief is threatening their family, does one simply ignore them, or does one help them as depicted in the parable of the good Samaritan?

We are fueling a war on the other side of the planet between two neighbors trying to weaken Russia’s national security, —

No, "we" are helping a neighbor in need, and some of its closer neighbors are helping too.

- After untrained conscripts lost badly in combat last February, the mothers of the conscripts no longer share Putin's goals for what was supposed to be a short-easy and even "special" military operation. They will not forget the tactical blunder Putin made.

Russia is not arming Mexico against us.

Mexico loves the revenue made in and from the United States. Both of us like fiestas, food, and fun. Russia has no chance of success in this imagined and highly unlikely scenario.

Therefore, We are arguably the aggressor here or at least contributing to any aggression.

Why does this statement feel familiar? Ah yes - the often contested "offensive realism" philosophy of John Mearsheimer.

We are actively putting missiles and radars into Russias neighborhood, into Russia’s front yard, not the other way around.

Long before the invasion, Ukraine was not asking for military assistance; so, asking for "missiles or radars" was unwarranted and unnecessary. Issues such as Putin's poisoning of a political opponent in Ukraine provided a lot of suspicion and tension and the military annexation of Crimea didn't help matters.

We are backing Russia into their corner and telling them they have no say in the matter.

Putin could easily say that the (pretend) Nazi's have been defeated and our goals have been achieved. Afterward, withdrawing from the entire region up to including Crimea, and having a big party throughout Russia afterward.

No -corner backing- required.

We deny them their national security concerns.

Yet, Ukraine is not getting acceptance into NATO. It has asked to join the European Union. No threat. Economic opportunity for all.

Reverse the situation and ask yourself, how would we be responding?

I can't imagine Canada or Mexico or even Cuba acting any differently than they are currently acting today.

We would be rattling our nuclear weapons and threatening to blow them up if they come any closer.

Against Cuba, Mexico, or Canada? :rolleyes: I know there is a small probability that all the air molecules can suddenly pack themselves into a small corner of the room you are in now, but that probability is exceedingly small. So small, that it's safe to say that it will never occur under normal circumstances. The same is true with your scenario about "rattling our nuclear weapons" against Cuba, Mexico, or Canada.

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Unless the aggressor, Russia, is using its nuclear deterrent as a nuclear threat to bully its neighbors to comply - or else.
What you fail to realize is that people don't want nuclear war. Period.

You shouting "But it was justified!..." as people's skin melt won't matter.

It is Bidens turn to forestall nuclear war, nothing less is excusable or justifiable.
 
What you fail to realize is that people don't want nuclear war. Period.

No "failing to realize" - a nuclear deterrent is not equivalent to a nuclear threat to comply with a bully's wishes. Playing nuclear poker sets a dangerous precedent. Mutually Assured Destruction keeps the peace.

You shouting "But it was justified!..." as people's skin melt won't matter.

Hopefully, Putin understands ^this^ concept and stops this new policy of playing the bully with nuclear arms.

It is Bidens turn to forestall nuclear war, nothing less is excusable or justifiable.

Ukraine will not stop until Russia withdraws from the land it forcibly and illegally annexed.

Do you believe that a democrat, Biden, can negotiate this result?

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What you fail to realize is that people don't want nuclear war. Period.

You shouting "But it was justified!..." as people's skin melt won't matter.

It is Bidens turn to forestall nuclear war, nothing less is excusable or justifiable.
So you are saying we should give in to any bully that threatens nuclear war?

That would include China and NKorea as well as Russia.
 
So you are saying we should give in to any bully that threatens nuclear war?

That would include China and NKorea as well as Russia.
Diplomacy and Statesmanship is the goal.

Your Joey child shouting idiocy from his basement doesn't cut it.

A real statesman is needed, this war would be over by now.

His failure looks bad on you
 
No "failing to realize" - a nuclear deterrent is not equivalent to a nuclear threat to comply with a bully's wishes. Playing nuclear poker sets a dangerous precedent. Mutually Assured Destruction keeps the peace.



Hopefully, Putin understands ^this^ concept and stops this new policy of playing the bully with nuclear arms.



Ukraine will not stop until Russia withdraws from the land it forcibly and illegally annexed.

Do you believe that a democrat, Biden, can negotiate this result?

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I don't believe your Biden can do anything.
 
Long before the invasion, Ukraine was not asking for military assistance; so, asking for "missiles or radars" was unwarranted and unnecessary. Issues such as Putin's poisoning of a political opponent in Ukraine provided a lot of suspicion and tension and the military annexation of Crimea didn't help matters.
You are either clueless or delusional because long before this war started Ukraine asked to join NATO. Obama/Biden may have invited them to join. But what do you think NATO is, a baking club? No Genius, NATO place military assets in forward positions and trains its members to kill other people. The target would be Russia unless you think NATO plans to fight aliens. This is why NATO has contributed to this war by planning to turn Ukraine into a military platform opposed to its neighbor using our most advanced military technology on Russia‘s front porch. NATO expansion is the root cause of this war and if they lose control of the situation and it escalates to total nuclear war then they provoked it. It appears NATO plans to get as close to the cliff as they can without falling into the abyss but miscalculations can occur.
 
Wrong. NATO is not fighting a war. NATO is avoiding fighting a war and has shown no aggression whatever.
Right, Genius, Everyone on the planet but you recognizes NATO is fighting a proxy war with Russia. Where are Ukraines weapons, funding and military training coming from If not NATO?

It is enabling a sovereign country to defend itself, because failure to do so would have a catastrophic effect on neighbouring states, many of which are in NATO.
Ukraine has a much longer history, language, and culture with Russia (up to 600 years) than as a NATO client state. You act like we have been allies for centuries and Russia inexplicably started a war for no reason. Dont be so naive.
This is not aggression. Russia has invaded Ukraine.
Ukraine was progressing to become a NATO member which is a military alliance designed to subdue or destroy its rivals. That would have been a national security risk for Russia. Didn’t America start a preemptive war with Iraq for alleged risk to our national security? Turned out to be false justification for it, but national security concerns are a valid reason for a preemptive war by any nation.

That's aggression. Russia can end the conflict at any time it wants to. "The only Russians that are getting killed are those engaged in an illegal invasion. No Russians on Ukrainian soul, no Russians get killed...
No expansion of NATO to Russias border, no preemptive war. NATO provoked this mess.

Compare an illegal war together with genocidal war crimes, with a legal medical procedure, however controversial, is ridiculous. And extremely disappointing. I had more respect for you than that. Nif you want to discuss abortion I'm happy to do so, but trying to link it to the war on Ukraine is just pathetic.
it just shows how you talk out both sides of your mouth condemning Russia absolutely for a war on one hand and turning around and saying let us kill some more unborn babies. You boast in helping kill innocent babies in these forums. Then accuse Russians of genocide. Your lack ethics, credibility and empathy. You are a fraud.

BTW, just because a behavior is legal does not make it right. Slavery was once legal and now universally condemned. Apparently, in your ethics if you can get away with killing innocent humans then do it but if not then don’t. It must be great being you. Do you have any other valuable life lessons for us?
 
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You are either clueless or delusional because long before this war started Ukraine asked to join NATO. Obama/Biden may have invited them to join. But what do you think NATO is, a baking club? No Genius, NATO place military assets in forward positions and trains its members to kill other people. The target would be Russia unless you think NATO plans to fight aliens. This is why NATO has contributed to this war by planning to turn Ukraine into a military platform opposed to its neighbor using our most advanced military technology on Russia‘s front porch. NATO expansion is the root cause of this war and if they lose control of the situation and it escalates to total nuclear war then they provoked it. It appears NATO plans to get as close to the cliff as they can without falling into the abyss but miscalculations can occur.
NATO is a defensive alliance. Nobody kills anyone, unless they are attacked. The only reason Russia has for objecting to Ukraine joining NATO is if they planning to attack Ukraine. I can understand Russian propaganda spinning this whole thing as aggression by NATO but only a Russian stooge would repeat it.
 
You are either clueless or delusional because long before this war started Ukraine asked to join NATO.

Timeline:

- In 2004 pro-west candidate Yushchenko was poisoned with dioxin because he was running on an anticorruption, anticronyism platform that opposed Putin's candidate Yanukovych to keep Russia's influence intact in the region. A month after the election, "Yanukovych was declared the winner, though Yushchenko’s supporters charged election fraud and staged mass protests that came to be known as the Orange Revolution"*.

- In 2006 Yanukovych’s "party of regions" won parliamentary elections but soon later in 2007, Yanukovych lost his post to a serious well-liked business woman, Yulia Tymoshenko. By 2008 Tymoshenko ran directly against president President Yushchenko that climaxed into a constitutional crisis. In addition to Tymoshenko's over-reliance on Russia's influence in the region her platform didn't help her win the presidency.

- It was in this same time period in 2008 that both Ukraine and Georgia requested NATO membership. However, German Chancellor Angela Merkel blocked both Ukraine's and Georgia's request. France was also with Germany and blocked Georgia's request. In response, Georgia became occupied by Russia by August.

- In 2014 Russia illegally annexed Crimea using "little green men" to secure -the- voting process.

- In 2022 Russia invades Ukraine. [ No, it was not because Nazi's were building up an army or that NATO was considering Ukraine as a member. ]

But what do you think NATO is, a baking club?

Some might use the membership to trade baking secrets in addition to other activities. Mostly membership provides an military alliance to defend countries from aggression by historically recalcitrant nations such as Russia, North Korea, China, and Iran.

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* Reference: Britannica, Orange Revolution
 
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Diplomacy and Statesmanship is the goal.

Your Joey child shouting idiocy from his basement doesn't cut it.

A real statesman is needed, this war would be over by now.

His failure looks bad on you
Biden's actions on Ukraine are the major achievement of his administration.
He managed to overcome our allies' hostility towards the Trump-led USA, and produced a coalition of our western allies to work together to help Ukraine stand up to the Russian evasion. This coalition's efforts have been a spectacular success. Russia is retreating and their failure to subjugate a weaker country is an international embarrassment for them.
 
You are either clueless or delusional because long before this war started Ukraine asked to join NATO. Obama/Biden may have invited them to join. But what do you think NATO is, a baking club? No Genius, NATO place military assets in forward positions and trains its members to kill other people. The target would be Russia unless you think NATO plans to fight aliens. This is why NATO has contributed to this war by planning to turn Ukraine into a military platform opposed to its neighbor using our most advanced military technology on Russia‘s front porch. NATO expansion is the root cause of this war and if they lose control of the situation and it escalates to total nuclear war then they provoked it. It appears NATO plans to get as close to the cliff as they can without falling into the abyss but miscalculations can occur.
What country has NATO invaded?
What people has NATO killed?

OTOH, Russia has invaded multiple countries and killed tens if not hundreds of thousands of people.
 
I see how you conveniently ignored all the points I made. What matters to most Ukrainians is PEACE!
No. What matters to Ukrainians like my family is freedom from Russian rule. We do not see Russian rule as peaceful, especially given the atrocities and war crimes they are committing daily against our people.
 
No. What matters to Ukrainians like my family is freedom from Russian rule. We do not see Russian rule as peaceful, especially given the atrocities and war crimes they are committing daily against our people.
Wrong! That's just YOUR family!

War crimes? LMAO!! You guys have been bombarding the Donbas region for how many years? Oh but your side is just right? Spare me the B.S.

Not to mention the American war crimes. the list is long. And their continued expansion of NATO is proof of their hegemony.

I imagine the rich Ukrainian class being bankrolled by the west but not anywhere near the fighting want the war to continue!
 
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