Preordained

Leatherneck0311 said:
I actually have a scripture( minus the spin) that says exactly what you obviously do not believe , and yet you have no scripture to support what you believe.
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect accordingto the foreknowledge of Godthe Father, throughsanctification of the Spirit,unto obedience andsprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you,and peace, be multiplied. Elect according to what ? That answer would be according to the foreknowledge of God. Do you have even one scripture that says differently ?
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You just keep plugging along ignoring Scripture, ignoring it refutes you.

You don't understand what foreknowledge means, biblically. You're reading your myths and fables into the text.
 
Carbon said:
Indeed, and he is not forced from any outside source. It’s the sinners own desire and will.
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Amen, sinner are not coerced to sin, they do it willingly, because this is what they love to do.
Carbon said:
But notice the righteous are declared to be His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. And it is God who works in you both to will and do of His good pleasure.
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Amen, Salvation is of the Lord (Jonah 2:9), and only he provides it. Including our NEW CREATION in Christ: a New Heart, a New Mind, and His Holy Spirit.
Carbon said:
And therefore, we should agree with Paul. But by the grace of God I am what I am.

I know there are those who have such a poor understanding of the new birth and believe man causes it by faith. And there are those who claim Calvinist’s teach God just gives them faith to make them believe. But these strawmen don’t deserve too much time to debate.
If they would consider scripture and see enmity is taught, that we have towards God. This isn’t just an enemy where it’s possible to get over our differences, accept each other and get along. No, it goes much deeper, - the nature must be changed and the enmity be done away with, then understanding of the new birth and faith can start. Once these things are understood, the new birth. Regeneration. And how it works becomes a little more clear.
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Our enmity and separation is so great a gap, that God had to send his Son, and shed his blood for us to reconcile God's elect to himself.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
I actually have a scripture( minus the spin) that says exactly what you obviously do not believe , and yet you have no scripture to support what you believe.
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit,unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you,and peace, be multiplied. Elect according to what ? That answer would be according to the foreknowledge of God. Do you have even one scripture that says differently ?
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Show us where is argue with this? But let's look at the passage which reads, 1 Peter 1:1 "To those who are elect exiles..." Paul starts off highlighting who he is addressing.

Want Scripture, sure no problem. 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for your own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people, once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

To answer your question, which I believe is a very important one. Elect according to what? According to his own purpose and will. Somehow you guys want to take credit for this, which doesn't exist.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to PURIFY FOR HIMSELF a people for HIS OWN POSSESSION

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN MERCY, by the washing of regenerating and renewal of the Holy Spirit.


So how is a sinner sanctified by the Spirit?
 
Ladodgers6 said:
Show us where is argue with this? But let's look at the passage which reads, 1 Peter 1:1 "To those who are elect exiles..." Paul starts off highlighting who he is addressing.

Want Scripture, sure no problem. 1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for your own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people, once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

To answer your question, which I believe is a very important one. Elect according to what? According to his own purpose and will. Somehow you guys want to take credit for this, which doesn't exist.

Titus 2:14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to PURIFY FOR HIMSELF a people for HIS OWN POSSESSION

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, BUT ACCORDING TO HIS OWN MERCY, by the washing of regenerating and renewal of the Holy Spirit.


So how is a sinner sanctified by the Spirit?
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You added “exiles” to the verse to fit your belief, because exiles is not in that verse. 1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit,unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you,and peace, be multiplied. No surprise “exiles”is NOT in the verse. You do understand the scriptural warning against adding or taking away from the word of God right ? 1st Peter—-> those in Christ. You said “elect” according to His own purpose and will and provided not one scripture to back up your belief. Titus 3:5—-> those in Christ. A sinner is sanctified through the grace provided by God by humbling themself before God , believing God, accepting God’s offer provided by Jesus through belief, faith in Jesus, repenting, and following Him. FYI, God is no respecter of people.
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1Pe 1:17 - And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man'swork, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
 
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Leatherneck0311 said:
You added “exiles” to the verse to fit your belief, because exiles is not in that verse. 1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit,unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you,and peace, be multiplied. No surprise “exiles”is NOT in the verse. You do understand the scriptural warning against adding or taking away from the word of God right ? 1st Peter—-> those in Christ. You said “elect” according to His own purpose and will and provided not one scripture to back up your belief. Titus 3:5—-> those in Christ. A sinner is sanctified through the grace provided by God by humbling themself before God , believing God, accepting God’s offer provided by Jesus through belief, faith in Jesus, repenting, and following Him. FYI, God is no respecter of people.
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1Pe 1:17 - And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man'swork, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
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You are using KJV, so why skip verse one? Keep it together, because in the KJV verse one reads "strangers" instead of exiles. So, instead of trying to judge me falsely, can you just same on point and address 1 Peter 1:1?

NKJ has pilgrims. Thoughts?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Hope this passage is good for you?
 
Slyzr said:
Seems like some are really into the no one can be thing.

And you will beholdeth ....... when man is dead, and you will see.

That you can not see the living .....

For you have cursed them to not be.
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Leatherneck0311 said:
Yes, Adam broke the covenant and I have NEVER said otherwise, which means God did NOT preordained Adam to disobey Him.
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Because He broke it does not mean God did not ordain it. Because Judas betrayed Christ does not mean God did not ordain it. See Acts 4:27,28 as a example.
 
Ladodgers6 said:
You are using KJV, so why skip verse one? Keep it together, because in the KJV verse one reads "strangers" instead of exiles. So, instead of trying to judge me falsely, can you just same on point and address 1 Peter 1:1?

NKJ has pilgrims. Thoughts?

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Hope this passage is good for you?
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Are you holy and blameless apart from Jesus ? Ephesians 1 is about being chosen in Him, and you do not become part of the body of Christ based on a heavenly lottery. You become part of the body of Christ by believing and placing YOUR faith in Him. The good pleasure of His will is that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no man goes to the Father but by Him.
 
squirrelyguy said:
It is curious to me that that verse gets used as a prooftext against free will. What Solomon could have said, but didn't, is this: "God both plans the devices in a man's heart and directs his steps." Isn't it more natural to interpret this verse as indicating that God controls the circumstances around us while leaving our wills untouched?
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Not untouched, because we have two natures. Choose this day whom you will serve:

Deuteronomy 30:19​


Said to the Israelites though. Those who were given laws. The law leads to Christ.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
Are you holy and blameless apart from Jesus ? Ephesians 1 is about being chosen in Him, and you do not become part of the body of Christ based on a heavenly lottery. You become part of the body of Christ by believing and placing YOUR faith in Him. The good pleasure of His will is that Jesus is the way the truth and the life and no man goes to the Father but by Him.
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You're not staying on point. When did I ever argue on the contrary? The Plan of Redemption and Application of it are not contrary either. God's Word shall come to pass. So, in the Covenant of Redemption (Plan of Redemption) God chose his elect before the foundation of the world to be saved and redeemed by His Son and his finished works that fulfilled God's Covenant that unfolded throughout time and history to the culmination of the Cross, Resurrection and Reign of Christ on the throne. All of this was God's Plan, Covenant, Promise, his word that He will do, and this is the Pure Gospel that Paul preached!

The Gospel is calling of God's voice through the preaching of it, his word is alive, it brings to life those who are his sheep to hear and see. They understand, believe and follow him. And it's not by anything we contribute or do. Titus 3 is crystal clear on that.​
 
Ladodgers6 said:
You're not staying on point. When did I ever argue on the contrary? The Plan of Redemption and Application of it are not contrary either. God's Word shall come to pass. So, in the Covenant of Redemption (Plan of Redemption) God chose his elect before the foundation of the world to be saved and redeemed by His Son and his finished works that fulfilled God's Covenant that unfolded throughout time and history to the culmination of the Cross, Resurrection and Reign of Christ on the throne. All of this was God's Plan, Covenant, Promise, his word that He will do, and this is the Pure Gospel that Paul preached!

The Gospel is calling of God's voice through the preaching of it, his word is alive, it brings to life those who are his sheep to hear and see. They understand, believe and follow him. And it's not by anything we contribute or do. Titus 3 is crystal clear on that.​
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Many find it hard to stay on point. I don’t think it necessarily their fault. They get overwhelmed.
 
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