Why does God call people to repentence?

[Howie]

Mark 1:14-16
14 After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15 “The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!”

That scripture says he wants people to repent and believe the gospel, are you claiming he doesn't want that?

See this link.

Only since Christ has the proclamation gone out to all people everywhere to repent, Lee.

That said, it makes it conclusive, along with the fact that God could have saved everyone if He wanted to, that God does not want to save everyone.

That means Calvinism has it right, non-Calvinism doesn't.

My bet is, it won't make a bit of difference to you. You'll continue arguing against God

 

[Theo1689]

So he doesn't want everyone to repent and believe.

You continue to ignore the fact that "command" does not imply "ability". You may think it does, but we don't, so you have to factor that into the discussion.

You continue to ignore the fact that God has two wills, a will of desire and a will of decree:
(two wills of God). You may not believe this (in fact, you probably don't), but we do, so you need to factor this into the discussion.

You continue to ignore CONTEXT, as (I believe) howie pointed out that the "command everyone everywhere to repent" was a change that happened "now", meaning it didn't occur "before".

If you continue to ignore these key points, discussion will go nowhere.

So Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

You claim Acts 17:30 is not a genuine call to repentence then?

He's claiming that Acts 17:30 doesn't demonstrate that God commanded all people everywhere to repent pre-Acts. That's why it says "NOW" He does this, in contrast to "in the past God overlooked".

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”

Does your Bible not have "now" in it?

I would further point out that the next verse (we call this the "context") says that God has fixed a day in which he will judge the world in righteousness. This is clearly referring to the unsaved.

 

[SovereignGrace]

So he doesn't want everyone to repent and believe.

So Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

You claim Acts 17:30 is not a genuine call to repentence then?

I see.

Seeing both faith and repentance are gifts from Him, no He does not.

 

[Howie]

So he doesn't want everyone to repent and believe.

So Acts 17:30
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.

You claim Acts 17:30 is not a genuine call to repentence then?

I see.

When did it first begin, Lee? (see above in RED).

 

[David1701]

Does God want all people to repent and believe in him, does he command it?

If the answer is no, please explain why God commands something he doesn't want to happen?
If the answer is yes, then he must want all people to be saved, if he wants ALL people to repent and believe, what other purpose can there be for it?

God commands all men everywhere to repent, because that is what they ought to do.

In His determinative will (what he has determined to happen), God does not want every single person to repent.

In His preceptive will (what he tells us to do), God does want everyone to repent.

These are two different categories of will, so they do not contradict each other.

 

[Synergy]

God commands all men everywhere to repent, because that is what they ought to do.

In His determinative will (what he has determined to happen), God does not want every single person to repent.

In His preceptive will (what he tells us to do), God does want everyone to repent.

These are two different categories of will, so they do not contradict each other.

According to what I highlighted above, are you saying that God does contradict Himself?
Where is God's "determinative" will contrasted with His "preceptive" will in the Bible?

 

[Simpletruther]

Does God want all people to repent and believe in him, does he command it?

Yes and yes.

If the answer is no, please explain why God commands something he doesn't want to happen?
If the answer is yes, then he must want all people to be saved, if he wants ALL people to repent and believe, what other purpose can there be for it?

In Both of our views, it must be true that God wants something else more than He wants all to repent believe and be saved.
Or else all would repent and be saved.

 

[LeeH]

God commands all men everywhere to repent, because that is what they ought to do.

So obey Gods commands, it's a sin not to, agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

In His determinative will (what he has determined to happen), God does not want every single person to repent.

So God breaks his own commandment if he doesn't want everyone to repent. This is calvinsim over rulling Gods word, you can clearly see a clear bible truth being disregarded for calvinism here. When God gives a commandment he wants you to obey, period. God does not have a split personality disorder, he is not a God of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33.

He is not a God of lawlessness, that is satan, but calvinism renders him out to be one, who appears to suffer from Schizophrenia. He is not double minded.

In His preceptive will (what he tells us to do), God does want everyone to repent.

So he must love everyone than, thanks for confirming this, now maybe you should reject Calvinism.

These are two different categories of will, so they do not contradict each other.

Where in scripture does it clearly say he has two different wills?

If that were the case when he tells us we should repent, how are we supposed to know what he wants us to do, is God a God of confusion? Your theology is flawed, cavinism makes a mockery of the word of God, you should reject it and repent, IMO.

 

[LeeH]

Yes and yes.

Agreed then, thank you. So he must love everyone then, agreed?

In Both of our views, it must be true that God wants something else more than He wants all to repent believe and be saved.

I want lots of things, like you giving up Calvinism because it's theology is flawed, but I am not getting it and may never get it, but I still want it.

Did God want Adam and Eve to break his commandment? If you say no, well God didn't get what he wanted there. So why do you insist because God doesn't get all that he wants, he must not want everyone to repent and be saved?

Or else all would repent and be saved.

God has said they refused to receive love of the truth and be saved, not that God didn't want them to be saved, they refused God, because they loved their sin. 2 Thessalonians 2:10, is God lying here, that wasn't the reason why people perish. Is God a God of deception?

 

[ReverendRV]

Agreed then, thank you. So he must love everyone then, agreed?

I want lots of things, like you giving up Calvinism because it's theology is flawed, but I am not getting it and may never get it, but I still want it.

Did God want Adam and Eve to break his commandment? If you say no, well God didn't get what he wanted there. So why do you insist because God doesn't get all that he wants, he must not want everyone to repent and be saved?

God has said they refused to receive love of the truth and be saved, not that God didn't want them to be saved, they refused God, because they loved their sin. 2 Thessalonians 2:10, is God lying here, that wasn't the reason why people perish. Is God a God of deception?

The Bible says that God SO Loves the World; but that's not all the Bible says. Posters here at CARM like to use the Love of God as the Prime Hermeneutic. God says he Hates Esau? Well the Love of God means this is not true. People like to say the Verse means God loves Esau less, but since they like to reference the OT to confirm a NT definition; the OT reference means Hate...

The Prime Hermeneutic is Sola Scriptura, not Sola Agapao...

Sola Apapaoists use the introductory tactics that Jehovah Witnesses use; John 1:1 says Jesus is 'A' god, this is the Prime Hermeneutic to understand the rest of the Bible. No; All Scripture is Good for Doctrine, this is the Prime Hermeneutic...

 

[CookedGoose]

So God breaks his own commandment if he doesn't want everyone to repent. This is calvinsim over rulling Gods word, you can clearly see a clear bible truth being disregarded for calvinism here. When God gives a commandment he wants you to obey, period. God does not have a split personality disorder, he is not a God of confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33.

Did God want Adam and Eve to break his commandment? If you say no, well God didn't get what he wanted there. So why do you insist because God doesn't get all that he wants, he must not want everyone to repent and be saved?

God determined to give the command "thou shall not murder"
God also determined to murder His Son.

It's not just Calvinists who have to reconcile these biblical realities, you have to do it too.
I'm not familiar with the idea of separate wills either, but it would help explain the 2 inescapable facts listed above.
A person either reconciles the 2 or puts a cloth over one and accepts the other.

 

[CookedGoose]

So God breaks his own commandment if he doesn't want everyone to repent.

God wants Jews and Gentiles to repent = No commandment broken
God wants every single person to repent = A broken commandment

Either your definition of "everyone" is incorrect, or God has broken His own commandment.
It's possible we may not be able to go straight to graduate level theology without some more foundational things being covered first.

 

[Rockson]

God determined to give the command "thou shall not murder"
God also determined to murder His Son.

God never in the law associated "thou shall not murder" with putting to the death of people who needed to receive judgement. Even in the day it was given if you were there they would have told you that.

I'm not familiar with the idea of separate wills either, but it would help explain the 2 inescapable facts listed above.

The things you mentioned above is not some kind of smoking gun proving Calvinism at all. Thou shall not murder did not mean what you've thought. Murder has to do with taking away the life of the innocent.

 

[CookedGoose]

God never in the law associated "thou shall not murder" with putting to the death of people who needed to receive judgement. Even in the day it was given if you were there they would have told you that.

Right, murder is killing the innocent, not the guilty. Yet you'll also claim Jewish babies were innocent when the Assyrian army was sent by God to kill (murder) them.

The things you mentioned above is not some kind of smoking gun proving Calvinism at all. Thou shall not murder did not mean what you've thought. Murder has to do with taking away the life of the innocent.

And Jesus was perfectly innocent, so He was murdered by God.
This all has to be reconciled, and not just by Calvinists.

 

[ReverendRV]

Right, murder is killing the innocent, not the guilty. Yet you'll also claim Jewish babies were innocent when the Assyrian army was sent by God to kill (murder) them.

And Jesus was perfectly innocent, so He was murdered by God.
This all has to be reconciled, and not just by Calvinists.

When he wrote that, I wanted to say something; but I knew you would do it

I wonder; what's got to be going on in their Minds??

 

[LeeH]

God determined to give the command "thou shall not murder"
God also determined to murder His Son.

Show me where in the bible God murdered his Son, where does he say he murdered him?

It's not just Calvinists who have to reconcile these biblical realities, you have to do it too.

I have and the bible makes perfect sense, it doesn't need any doctrines to interprete it.

I'm not familiar with the idea of separate wills either, but it would help explain the 2 inescapable facts listed above.

You can't have God tell you to do this, when in reality he doesn't want you to, yet without this thought process Calvinism falls apart. If God has two will, how are we supposed to know which one he wants us to do?

A person either reconciles the 2 or puts a cloth over one and accepts the other.

Calvinism claims that God doesn't want everyone to be saved, so it has to invent this conundrum and inject it into the equation.

 

[LeeH]

God wants Jews and Gentiles to repent = No commandment broken

My understanding was, there are only these two groups, what other group does God not call to repent then?

God wants every single person to repent = A broken commandment

By whom, those that don't repent, do tehy include Jews and Gentiles? If so your first statement can't be true.

Either your definition of "everyone" is incorrect, or God has broken His own commandment.

How can God break his own commandment if those he is directing the law at, refuse to do it? How has God broken his own law?

It's possible we may not be able to go straight to graduate level theology without some more foundational things being covered first.

Is it possible that you are understanding scripture based on the doctrines of Calvinism? What if the doctrines of Calvinism are flawed?

How can God have two wills that contradict what he wants, who then can do his will?

 

[ReverendRV]

Show me where in the bible God murdered his Son, where does he say he murdered him?

It's why we as Calvinists have to be careful about the words we use. God doesn't Murder, he gave his only begotten Son to Murderers...

 

[LeeH]

It's why we as Calvinists have to be careful about the words we use. God doesn't Murder, he gave his only begotten Son to Murderers...

Yes Rev, you do have to be careful about words, we all do, not just Calvinists.

The bible is clear who murdered who, Matthew 21:33-40

Parable of the Evil Farmers​

33 “Now listen to another story. A certain landowner planted a vineyard, built a wall around it, dug a pit for pressing out the grape juice, and built a lookout tower. Then he leased the vineyard to tenant farmers and moved to another country. 34 At the time of the grape harvest, he sent his servants to collect his share of the crop. 35 But the farmers grabbed his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 So the landowner sent a larger group of his servants to collect for him, but the results were the same.

37 “Finally, the owner sent his son, thinking, ‘Surely they will respect my son.’

38 “But when the tenant farmers saw his son coming, they said to one another, ‘Here comes the heir to this estate. Come on, let’s kill him and get the estate for ourselves!’ 39 So they grabbed him, dragged him out of the vineyard, and murdered him.

40 “When the owner of the vineyard returns,” Jesus asked, “what do you think he will do to those farmers?”

Reading this parable from Jesus, can we trust this parable that God is telling us? Who murdered the heir, ie, the son, was it the father?

Who is the father, who is the son in this you think? Please tell cookedgoose, they need to know, because calling God a murderer is not only not biblical, it's blasphemous.

When we speak of murderers, God does too, who does he call the first murderer, who, see below?

John 8:44
44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[Theo1689]

Show me where in the bible God murdered his Son, where does he say he murdered him?

Really?

1) Jesus was killed (crucified on a cross).
2) Jesus was innocent of any wrondoing.
3) His death was intentional.
4) God was behind it all (Acts 4:27).

So which heresy do you hold that goes against that?
Are you denying that Jesus died, that He was killed?
Are you denying that His death was intentional?
Are you claiming that Jesus was not innocent, but a sinner?

Calvinism claims that God doesn't want everyone to be saved, so it has to invent this conundrum and inject it into the equation.

Wrong again.

We don't interpret Scripture according to our theology.
We get our theology FROM what the Bible teaches.