Why does God call people to repentence?

Rockson said:
Also notice this. What you're reading about in Ez 36:27 was speaking of the time when men would receive the Spirit of God into their lives. The curtain of the temple when Jesus died split from top to bottom meaning God was no longer going to be in such physical places but take up is abode in the hearts of men. There is no such thing as, "I will put my Spirit when you" without men choosing to do what's said below,

“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. This promise belongs to you and your children and to all who are far off—to all whom the Lord our God will call to Himself.” Acts 2:38

He did not force them to do these things. He did not make them do these things. They had the free will choice yah or nay as to whether they would.
Click to expand...
The Bible says that repentance is a gift from God (N.B. actual repentance, not some supposed "ability to repent").

2 Tim. 2:25, 26 (WEB)

25 in gentleness correcting those who oppose him: perhaps God may give them repentance leading to a full knowledge of the truth,
26 and they may recover themselves out of the devil’s snare, having been taken captive by him to his will.
 
preacher4truth said:
Kind of a side issue of course, yet since you used it to make a point, I believe I've heard it stated that there is a difference between murder & killing, Biblically. Killing permitted, murder forbidden. "A time to kill...?" I haven't studied it out though I believe it is accurate.

Secondly, my point as well, and it was overlooked, and not just by anti-Calvinists; We are not saved because we repent and believe. Because we are saved, we repent and believe.
Click to expand...

Do you think God was saying repent of not being?

As in alot of people will demand you cannot be.
 
LeeH said:
If God had, yes that would be the case.

Adam had free will, God knew he would fall, God did not have to ordain that to happen, but because that happened God had to have a plan to redeem mankind. Do you agree Adam had free will?
Click to expand...
Define "free will".

Also, God planned the Cross before Adam fell, not afterwards. It was not a response to anything, since God could easily have prevented Adam's fall.

Adam had free will, where is the proof God determined Adam to disobey his commandment? Are you saying God wants Adam to break his own commandments? He wants Adam to sin? Satan wants that, so he can murder Gods creation, cause seperation, not God.
Click to expand...

You are again conflating God's preceptive and determinative wills.

If God gives Adam free will to choose, God sist back and has to let him,
Click to expand...

God is in charge, not man. God's word says that God works all things according to the counsel of his own will. He has not hamstrung himself, in any way.

So because God did not jump in and stop it, knowing full well what would happen, he predetermined it, he allowed it to happen, is that correct?
Click to expand...

Since God knows what would happen, in any given set of circumstances, his action and inaction are both determinative, bringing about what he intends to be.

So God issues a commandment, because he has to, but is hoping they disobey it, which they did. That is your take on the two wills, yes? You see I do understand it.
Click to expand...

Oh, good grief! :rolleyes:

How about God gives them free will, knows they will break his commandment, but doesn't want them to and then has to deal with all the fall out, meaning the chaos that will come after. Maybe God knew it would happen, but couldn't prevent it because of God giving man free will. If you have a son or daughter, do you lock them in a room for their whole life in case they do something wrong, like take drugs? Or do you give them freedom and give them advice and hope they will listen?
Click to expand...

If you have a son or daughter, and see that child running towards a cliff, do you:

A) Sit there wringing your hands helplessly, because you can't countermand the child's "free will"?

B) Rush out and grab the child, so that a disaster does not happen?

Adam and Eve didn't listen.

The problem you have is once you say God has two wills and one will is opposed to the other, especially when we are dealing with sin, if God commands man to obey, but Gods other will is for him not to, if man disobeys Gods commandment, Gods will is being thwarted by his own determinsitic will. God has become divided within himself.
Click to expand...

You still don't understand that determining what will happen is in a different category from telling man what he ought to do.

What does Jesus say about a divided house? Mark 3:24-25
Click to expand...

The house is not divided at all, but you don't grasp why.

The bible is very simple to understand, but Calvinism introduces such complexities, that things like two wills have to be introduced into scripture to make Calvinism seem plausible, but it becomes very exposed.
Click to expand...

Some things in the Bible are easy to understand, but others are hard, as even the apostle Peter stated.

God cannot be divided against himself, his will was for Adam and Eve to keep his commandment, they had free will, they didn't keep it, it's that simple. God commands man to repent and believe in the gospel, some will, many won't it's that simple. No need for two wills.
Click to expand...

Check what the Bible says about God bringing his purposes to pass. It's not nearly as simplistic as you make out.
 
Rockson said:
And we have one thing in common. We're trying to help you understand too. Maybe we can keep the helping thing to go on.


An parent may not prevent an adult offspring to experience the consequences of their actions. Just because they had the ability to do something doesn't mean it was the logical right thing to prevent it.


He warned him about a wrong action and what would occur. That most certainly is sufficient.


The very test was to demonstrate God gave man free will.


They were told what LIFE and DEATH was. They choose. And you don't know anyway even if he did they might have still did the same thing. No need therefore to consider your speculation. They were told. Right?
Click to expand...

Please provide scriptural evidence for your claims, thanks.
 
preacher4truth said:
Even in Psalm 23:2 "He makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters."

Haven't heard a sheep claim that's unfair, but they would if they were consistent in their belief of "force" and/or that God doesn't do what His word says He does, i.e. "causing."
Click to expand...
" makes me " is nowhere in the Hebrew.

yar·bî·ṣê·nî literally means : stretch oneself out, lie down, lie stretched out

oops
 
Christian said:
" makes me " is nowhere in the Hebrew.

yar·bî·ṣê·nî literally means : stretch oneself out, lie down, lie stretched out

oops
Click to expand...

I doubt very much that you know the least bit of Hebrew.
I don't claim to know any Hebrew (except for a handful of vocab).

But you have to ask yourself (and explain to others) WHY all the major translations render it, 'maketh me".

According to my copy of BHS in Accordance, the Hebrew form rendered "lead" is in the "hif imperfect 3 masc singular".

Searching on "hif Hebrew", I found:

"he Hiphil form is a verbal stem formation in Biblical Hebrew, usually indicated by a הִ prefix before the 1st radical and a hireq-yod (or sometimes tsere) vowel under the 2nd radical of the verb. (This ה changes in the participle and Imperfect forms.) The Hiphil stem is generally used to express causative action in active voice."

So it appears that the Hebrew scholars behind the major Bible translations DO in fact understand Hebrew than you do, and your "oops" seems to be premature.

Have a nice day!
 
LeeH said:
Does God want all people to repent and believe in him, does he command it?

If the answer is no, please explain why God commands something he doesn't want to happen?
If the answer is yes, then he must want all people to be saved, if he wants ALL people to repent and believe, what other purpose can there be for it?
Click to expand...
A Resounding YES according to Scripture. Jesus and the Apostles taught us just that !

Acts 17
In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone

Titus 3:4
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared

so we can see from the above that salvation is for everyone and God commands everyone to repent.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

God wants/desires everyone to repent and be saved :)


1 Timothy 2:4
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Jesus concurs below :)

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Matthew 11:28-29
Come unto me,all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me;for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Jesus tasted death for everyone, every man, every individual- the whole world John 3:16: 1 John 2:2, 2 Corinthians 5:15

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he-by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

The gospel is for everyone without exception !

Colossians 1:23
But you must stay deeply rooted and firm in your faith. You must not give up the hope you received when you heard the good news. It was preached to everyone on earth, and I myself have become a servant of this message.

cf Mathew 28:18-20. For all nations, all people, everyone !

The universal Gospel to all men under heaven !

Amen !
 
Last edited:
David1701 said:
I doubt if you are going to understand, but I'll try anyway.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that God had determined Adam not to fall. In this case, since Adam did fall, someone would have had to overpower, or outwit, God, in order for Adam to fall. Not only that, but, God ordained the Cross, before he even created Adam, so Adam had to fall, otherwise the Cross would have been completely pointless.

Another proof that it was God's determinative will for Adam to fall, is that God could have prevented it, in an infinite number of ways, without doing any violence to Adam's will (e.g. he could have warned Adam about the serpent; he could have prevented the serpent from tempting Eve; he could have stepped in and reminded Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, etc, etc.).
Click to expand...
If I may add to this, Adam fell by his own free-will, God did not coerce Adam to sin. He disobeyed willingly. Only Adam, Eve and Christ had a total free-will or power of contrary choice; a libertarian free-will to choose.
 
Ladodgers6 said:
If I may add to this, Adam fell by his own free-will, God did not coerce Adam to sin. He disobeyed willingly. Only Adam, Eve and Christ had a total free-will or power of contrary choice; a libertarian free-will to choose.
Click to expand...
where does the bible say they lost that "LFW " ?
 
Theo1689 said:
I doubt very much that you know the least bit of Hebrew.
I don't claim to know any Hebrew (except for a handful of vocab).

But you have to ask yourself (and explain to others) WHY all the major translations render it, 'maketh me".

According to my copy of BHS in Accordance, the Hebrew form rendered "lead" is in the "hif imperfect 3 masc singular".

Searching on "hif Hebrew", I found:

"he Hiphil form is a verbal stem formation in Biblical Hebrew, usually indicated by a הִ prefix before the 1st radical and a hireq-yod (or sometimes tsere) vowel under the 2nd radical of the verb. (This ה changes in the participle and Imperfect forms.) The Hiphil stem is generally used to express causative action in active voice."

So it appears that the Hebrew scholars behind the major Bible translations DO in fact understand Hebrew than you do, and your "oops" seems to be premature.

Have a nice day!
Click to expand...
So now he knows more than Hebrew scholars, lol!!!!!!! And we're to believe his message of being saved by humility.

Um. No.
 
Christian said:
I was asking what verses you use to distinguish adam from us . Thanks
Click to expand...
God created Adam upright and good, and was without sin. Totally capable of fulfilling God's commands in the Garden to receive blessings from God or curses. After the fall Adam plunged into darkness along with his progeny in solidarity. Which bound all fallen mankind to sin by a curse brought by disobedience.

Romans 6:17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart

Romans 6:20 For when you were slaves of sin

Ephesians 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

Romans 5:19 For as by the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man’s obedience the many will be made righteous.​
 
Ladodgers6 said:
If I may add to this, Adam fell by his own free-will, God did not coerce Adam to sin. He disobeyed willingly. Only Adam, Eve and Christ had a total free-will or power of contrary choice; a libertarian free-will to choose.
Click to expand...
Well, the Bible does not tell us about the condition of Adam and Eve's will, prior to the fall; and Christ is God manifest in the flesh, so he cannot sin.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top