Alexander the adequate
Well-known member
it grieves me as well, but I am confident in the next world we will understand why He is a God of wrath as well as loveThat grieves me, friend.
it grieves me as well, but I am confident in the next world we will understand why He is a God of wrath as well as loveThat grieves me, friend.
Certainly the Ezekiel verse is about death on earth.
But in Matthew "destroy" does not mean cease to exist
Because He is Just.it grieves me as well, but I am confident in the next world we will understand why He is a God of wrath as well as love
Why would there be a resurrection of the wicked then. And why would there be degrees of different punishment for the wicked? How could there be varying degrees if everyone wicked experienced the same, non-existence?Because immortality is conditional. Not everyone receives immortality. If one doesn't receive immortality... they aren't alive forever in torment. Death is powerless over those in Christ.
Why would there be a resurrection of the wicked then. And why would there be degrees of different punishment for the wicked? How could there be varying degrees if everyone wicked experienced the same, non-existence?
Matt 10:15
Doesn't Lk 12:47 seem to suggest that there is?As for varying degrees [of punishment] for the wicked, the supplied verse Matthew 10:15 doesn't say there are varying degrees of punishment. It suggests there are varying degrees of judgement. In other words, there is varying degrees of leniency and strictness based on certain factors like repentance.
I think we can maybe understand that now. LOVE had to make the penalty for one's releasing spiritual death into the universe so sever to make beings think twice before participating in it. If God wouldn't have done this he wouldn't be LOVE.it grieves me as well, but I am confident in the next world we will understand why He is a God of wrath as well as love
Doesn't Lk 12:47 seem to suggest that there is?
And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. Lk 12:47
I don't read that their smoke endures forever and ever, but rises for ever and ever.As I read the passage,
I'm not sure what you are envisioning the passage to say.
- The everlasting punishment is death. They will return to dust and that is their eternal fate.
- The righteous go to life eternal. This is the gift of God. And note it doesn't say eternal life in heaven.
The thing that is eternal here is the smoke of their torment, not the persons. Smoke persists long after the fire.
I don't think so.I think we are looking at it in the video.The destructive power we can unleash is indeed a terrible thing, but I think the LOF is entirely symbolic....very real and yet symbolic.
I'm curious how one can answer if annihilation for the wicked was true how does one explain the resurrection for the righteous and the wicked. Seems the wicked will receive a physical body as well so why would God do this if their existence is over? What would be the reason?
if you are talking from a natural POV, a destroyed body still exists, but in a different form. The atoms are not gone. They will reconnect in other ways. It just is not a body anymore.If a body is destroyed, does it cease to exist? Yes. Now if a soul is destroyed, does it cease to exist?
If you disagree please point to where someone’s body is after it is destroyed.
Another example, if cities are destroyed, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, did those cities cease to exist? Yes.
No I didn’t. Did you even read the whole verse? Life and immortality is through the Gospel of Christ. Non-believers don’t have life or immortality forever in hell then. As I said, immortality is conditional. The verse you’re standing on debunks your position.
2 Timothy 1:10
10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
"ONLY FOR BELIEVERS" is adding to the text.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.
John 5:28-29
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when ALL who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
1 Tim 4:10
For to this we toil and strive, because we have hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers.
Jesus destroyed death for ALL men. The wicked, when they are raised from temporal death, after hearing His voice, will be given eternal bodies and won't be able to die.
if you are talking from a natural POV, a destroyed body still exists, but in a different form. The atoms are not gone. They will reconnect in other ways. It just is not a body anymore.
When you talk about a city, are you using destroyed to mean completely disintegrated to atoms and molecules. In the Bible when a city is destroyed, it generally means conquered and subjugated
the word destroyed as used in the Bible is what i was focusing on.Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed with fire and brimstone. So you think if a city is destroyed with fire, but there is still rubble and ashes left, that the city is still there because the atoms weren't destroyed? I'm not following your logic about destruction. If something, a body for example, is reduced to ashes with fire, it isn't a body anymore; it is effectively destroyed and no longer a body even if the base elements and smoke still linger around.
Do you believe in Universalism then?