Rethinking the doctrine of "hell"

Certainly the Ezekiel verse is about death on earth.
But in Matthew "destroy" does not mean cease to exist

If a body is destroyed, does it cease to exist? Yes. Now if a soul is destroyed, does it cease to exist?

If you disagree please point to where someone’s body is after it is destroyed.

Another example, if cities are destroyed, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, did those cities cease to exist? Yes.
 
I'm curious how one can answer if annihilation for the wicked was true how does one explain the resurrection for the righteous and the wicked. Seems the wicked will receive a physical body as well so why would God do this if their existence is over? What would be the reason?
 
Because immortality is conditional. Not everyone receives immortality. If one doesn't receive immortality... they aren't alive forever in torment. Death is powerless over those in Christ.
Why would there be a resurrection of the wicked then. And why would there be degrees of different punishment for the wicked? How could there be varying degrees if everyone wicked experienced the same, non-existence?

Matt 10:15
 
Why would there be a resurrection of the wicked then. And why would there be degrees of different punishment for the wicked? How could there be varying degrees if everyone wicked experienced the same, non-existence?

Matt 10:15

The resurrection of the wicked is for the purpose of condemnation. Condemnation is necessary so that those who are put to their second death understand exactly why it's going to happen; this is the fairness, justness, and righteousness of God. Think of it like a day in court where the charges are explained and the sentence is carried out. Doesn't everyone at least deserve to know why they are punished? I believe God is also fair this way.

As for varying degrees [of punishment] for the wicked, the supplied verse Matthew 10:15 doesn't say there are varying degrees of punishment. It suggests there are varying degrees of judgement. In other words, there is varying degrees of leniency and strictness based on certain factors like repentance.

Matthew 10:15
15Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

Here's a passage that supplements Matthew 10:15:

Matthew 11
20Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
 
As for varying degrees [of punishment] for the wicked, the supplied verse Matthew 10:15 doesn't say there are varying degrees of punishment. It suggests there are varying degrees of judgement. In other words, there is varying degrees of leniency and strictness based on certain factors like repentance.
Doesn't Lk 12:47 seem to suggest that there is?

And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. Lk 12:47

 
it grieves me as well, but I am confident in the next world we will understand why He is a God of wrath as well as love
I think we can maybe understand that now. LOVE had to make the penalty for one's releasing spiritual death into the universe so sever to make beings think twice before participating in it. If God wouldn't have done this he wouldn't be LOVE.
 
All will stand before the Throne and those outside of Christ will experience the fullness of their loss and indeed suffer much anguish relative to their particulars. God is a God of justice and also Mercy and above all, Grace.
The following destruction is His final example of Grace and Mercy for the wicked…an example for all eternity. We who are in Christ will worship all the more for it…His Grace and Choices.
This scenario, although partial, is more in keeping with all that is revealed of Him in scripture, in Creation and in our hearts.
 
Doesn't Lk 12:47 seem to suggest that there is?

And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. Lk 12:47

The passage suggests to me, if I read it correctly, there might be some punishment for believers, but it isn't about eternal punishment. What the exact nature of these "beatings" are is unclear to me, but each believer will be judged on an individual basis, but not judged on the basis of sins. If we were judged by the sin, the automatic penalty would be death since the wages of sin is death per Romans 6:23.

Matt. 16
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

2 Cor. 5
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Rom. 14
10You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.

Eph. 6
8because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.
 
As I read the passage,
  • The everlasting punishment is death. They will return to dust and that is their eternal fate.
  • The righteous go to life eternal. This is the gift of God. And note it doesn't say eternal life in heaven.
I'm not sure what you are envisioning the passage to say.



The thing that is eternal here is the smoke of their torment, not the persons. Smoke persists long after the fire.
I don't read that their smoke endures forever and ever, but rises for ever and ever.

I believe the lake of fire that the false prophet and beast are cast into is a nuclear explosion. They are consumed in an instant while they stand upon their feet. The smoke rises very high into the heaven. It appears to rise forever and ever.
The nuclear explosion is what I understand to be called the abomination that causes desolation in scripture.

The lake of fire would resemble this.


Zech 14:12

And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

They are simply not saved. Those who are saved can walk through the fire.
 
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The destructive power we can unleash is indeed a terrible thing, but I think the LOF is entirely symbolic....very real and yet symbolic.
 
The destructive power we can unleash is indeed a terrible thing, but I think the LOF is entirely symbolic....very real and yet symbolic.
I don't think so.I think we are looking at it in the video.
I do believe Armeggedon involves the use of nuclear weapons in the middle east and I believe this man orders their use.

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

I believe the land of the Lord will be emptied of all its sinners.
 
I'm curious how one can answer if annihilation for the wicked was true how does one explain the resurrection for the righteous and the wicked. Seems the wicked will receive a physical body as well so why would God do this if their existence is over? What would be the reason?

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

2 Tim 2:20
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
 
If a body is destroyed, does it cease to exist? Yes. Now if a soul is destroyed, does it cease to exist?

If you disagree please point to where someone’s body is after it is destroyed.

Another example, if cities are destroyed, such as Sodom and Gomorrah, did those cities cease to exist? Yes.
if you are talking from a natural POV, a destroyed body still exists, but in a different form. The atoms are not gone. They will reconnect in other ways. It just is not a body anymore.
When you talk about a city, are you using destroyed to mean completely disintegrated to atoms and molecules. In the Bible when a city is destroyed, it generally means conquered and subjugated
 
No I didn’t. Did you even read the whole verse? Life and immortality is through the Gospel of Christ. Non-believers don’t have life or immortality forever in hell then. As I said, immortality is conditional. The verse you’re standing on debunks your position.

2 Timothy 1:10
10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.

"ONLY FOR BELIEVERS" is adding to the text.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.

John 5:28-29
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when ALL who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

1 Tim 4:10
For to this we toil and strive, because we have hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers.

Jesus destroyed death for ALL men. The wicked, when they are raised from temporal death, after hearing His voice, will be given eternal bodies and won't be able to die.
 
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"ONLY FOR BELIEVERS" is adding to the text.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ ALL will be made alive.

John 5:28-29
“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when ALL who are in their graves will hear his voice 29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

1 Tim 4:10
For to this we toil and strive, because we have hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers.

Jesus destroyed death for ALL men. The wicked, when they are raised from temporal death, after hearing His voice, will be given eternal bodies and won't be able to die.

Do you believe in Universalism then?
 
if you are talking from a natural POV, a destroyed body still exists, but in a different form. The atoms are not gone. They will reconnect in other ways. It just is not a body anymore.
When you talk about a city, are you using destroyed to mean completely disintegrated to atoms and molecules. In the Bible when a city is destroyed, it generally means conquered and subjugated

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed with fire and brimstone. So you think if a city is destroyed with fire, but there is still rubble and ashes left, that the city is still there because the atoms weren't destroyed? I'm not following your logic about destruction. If something, a body for example, is reduced to ashes with fire, it isn't a body anymore; it is effectively destroyed and no longer a body even if the base elements and smoke still linger around.
 
Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed with fire and brimstone. So you think if a city is destroyed with fire, but there is still rubble and ashes left, that the city is still there because the atoms weren't destroyed? I'm not following your logic about destruction. If something, a body for example, is reduced to ashes with fire, it isn't a body anymore; it is effectively destroyed and no longer a body even if the base elements and smoke still linger around.
the word destroyed as used in the Bible is what i was focusing on.
As far as Sodom. no. the "city" was no longer there, as a city, but pieces were left showing that destruction of the physical city was not complete, meaning that the destruction was of the concept of a city, not merely its buildings, but all the things that go on to make a place a city,
And yes when a body is utterly destroyed for instance by burning, those molecules are no longer united in a body, but they are still existing.
And the real point was about a soul in hell, and what it would mean for God to destroy a soul there. We do not have enough info given in the Bible to explain that, but we do know that people are tormented in Hell forever, or in outer darkness.
 
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