The Bodily Resurrection & Ascension of Jesus

JonHawk said:
Then Jesus declared, “I am he.” John 4:24-26
At least she opens that door.
Unlike blind gnostics who deny that Jesus is the Christ.
I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, John 10:9
JonHawk said:
Who was declared the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
5 Through him we received grace...Rom 1
Nope' Jesus is no longer with us
JonHawk said:
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Heb 13:7-8
Do not be carried about with strange gnostic doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, Heb 13:9
Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
 
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Unlike blind gnostics who deny that Jesus is the Christ.
Why do you keep repeating that Jesus was not the Christ? Why is it that you cant see that he was the Christ. It is because to you His ways are gnostic lies.
I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, John 10:9
Yes and Jesus opens that do to Him in Matt 3:16. The example God made for us to recieve the same from God Himself.
Do not be carried about with strange gnostic doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, Heb 13:9
And your strange doctrine of His ways as gnostic lies has you stymied
Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
And comes through us all who has from God that what Jesus had from Him. See Matt 3:16, this is what we in Christ has receieved from God Himself.

As long as His ways to receieve from God yourself is gnostic lies, you will go to a grave never knowing God nor His Christ, anointing, at all.
 
JonHawk said:
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
Then Jesus declared, “I am He.” John 4:24-26
Gary Mac said:
At least she opens that door.
Unlike blind gnostics who deny that Jesus is the Christ. I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, John 10:9

Do not be carried about with strange gnostic doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, Heb 13:9

He was declared the Son of God in power by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.
5 Through him we received grace...Rom 1 Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Gary Mac said:
Nope' Jesus is no longer with us
JonHawk said:
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Heb 13:7-8
Why do you keep repeating that Jesus was not the Christ? Why is it that you cant see that he was the Christ.
As long as His ways to receieve from God yourself is gnostic lies, you will go to a grave never knowing God nor His Christ, anointing, at all.
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matt 16:28
 
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matt 16:28
Spot on. We who has died to self and that new mind of Christ has seen the son of man and the son of God we are like Him.

You cant be of Christ until your self beliefs that Gods ways is gnostic lies and actually become that new man of Christ. Christ risen from that death.

You dont have a clue what that means to be born again for His ways is gnostic lies and you refuse to give up that right to accuse Him of.
 
JonHawk said:
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matt 16:28
Spot on. We who has died to self and that new mind of Christ has seen the son of man and the son of God we are like Him.

You dont have a clue what that means to be born again for His ways is gnostic lies and you refuse to give up that right to accuse Him of.
Believers certainly understand that it's not about your gnostic lies.

To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, Rev 1:4-7
 
Yes, God became a man without changing who He is, something we will never understand this side of eternity
Where we most likely diverge is that I don't see Jesus is still a man, His days of flesh are over
FYI, He raised His dead Temple ( Body ) back to life after 3 days in the tomb as per John 2:19-22! He did NOT Dispose of it ( His Supernatural resurrection body of Flesh & Bones - Luke 24:39 ) when He ascended Bodily to Heaven in Acts chapter one! Only JW's say that He disposed of His resurrection body when He ascended to Heaven after 40 days post resurrection! So are you a JW, as that would explain your view ? He has yet to REIGN for 1000 years on King David's throne on earth in His Flesh & Bone resurrection body as per Rev.20:4-6 in conjunction with Zec.14:4-16 & Acts 2:29-32!
 
FYI, He raised His dead Temple ( Body ) back to life after 3 days in the tomb as per John 2:19-22! He did NOT Dispose of it ( His Supernatural resurrection body of Flesh & Bones - Luke 24:39 ) when He ascended Bodily to Heaven in Acts chapter one! Only JW's say that He disposed of His resurrection body when He ascended to Heaven after 40 days post resurrection! So are you a JW, as that would explain your view ? He has yet to REIGN for 1000 years on King David's throne on earth in His Flesh & Bone resurrection body as per Rev.20:4-6 in conjunction with Zec.14:4-16 & Acts 2:29-32!
I am not JW and I do not know what they have to say about this or what scriptures they are looking at.
My position comes from scripture. I still have questions but. I do stick with what I read in the Bible and build doctrine upon that.
There are 10 to 12 scriptures that tell a different story from what you are saying, which is the same as what the church in general believes. So you are in the majority in your beliefs
Try to find a new testament verse that states He brought His old body back to life. You made that statement, so find that wording, or that idea and we can specifically discuss one verse at a time if you are inclined. Of note is that in the post resurrection appearances, He took different forms and no one in any appearance recognizes Him at first
 
JonHawk said:
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” Matt 16:28
Yep and you have not died that death to be born again. you cant be born again to be like the Father until you do give up that right to yourself and receieve Himself as your now way, and have His truths, an live His life of Christ to be His anointed one.
Believers certainly understand that it's not about your gnostic lies.
Your beliefs for a god are much like Jim Jones and David Koresh by accusing Gods ways as gnostic lies.
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, Rev 1:4-7
And when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him as well but because 1 John 3 is gnostic lies for that aint gonna happen is it !!!
 
I am not JW and I do not know what they have to say about this or what scriptures they are looking at.
My position comes from scripture. I still have questions but. I do stick with what I read in the Bible and build doctrine upon that.
Jesus and myself let God build our doctrine and walk in it as He walks in it.
There are 10 to 12 scriptures that tell a different story from what you are saying, which is the same as what the church in general believes. So you are in the majority in your beliefs
Try to find a new testament verse that states He brought His old body back to life. You made that statement, so find that wording, or that idea and we can specifically discuss one verse at a time if you are inclined. Of note is that in the post resurrection appearances, He took different forms and no one in any appearance recognizes Him at first
This is true, and even appeared to others in another form of a man. The fisherman with the nets didnt have a clue who that man was cooking them fish for breakfast, only that they know it was of God.

It is the same today. He appears everywhere and all one has to do is look inside the people in their words and actions if they are of Christ as Jesus was of Christ for the same words Jesus spoke from the Father are the very same as us all who are of Christ as Jesus was of Christ and anointed of God.

It isn't hard to see who is like Him and who isn't if you are of Gods anointing as Jesus was of His anointing, mind, which is Christ in you, or is supposed to be in you as He was in Jesus. But that would tack an act of God as in Matt 3:16 come and do the same in you.
 
Yep and you have not died that death to be born again.
Do you mean to be born to another, to him who was raised from the dead, and bear fruit for God? (Rom 7:4)
And when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him as well but because 1 John 3 is gnostic lies for that aint gonna happen is it !!!
How would a gnostic liar prevent it from happening?
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. (1 John 5:1)
Your beliefs for a god are much like Jim Jones and David Koresh by accusing Gods ways as gnostic lies.
What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. Rom 3
 
Do you mean to be born to another, to him who was raised from the dead, and bear fruit for God? (Rom 7:4)
Born to another? I am born of God just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16, born again.
How would a gnostic liar prevent it from happening?
Because to you Gods Spirit in man is gnostic lies, that is spawned by your agnostic disbelief that God can revel Himself in you as He did in Jesus and others we read of and me trying to witness the Christ to you.
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. (1 John 5:1)
Thats what I keep telling you -- but then you make those stu[pid remarks that I dont believe that Jesus was the Christ -- ROFLOL. Satan has a tight grip on your mind for sure.
What if some were unfaithful?
As yourself accusing Hims of being a liar.
Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness?
No' you are just void of His righteousness to be like Him. If you would repent and receieve from GHod that what Jesus did, you would be like Him instead of calling Him a gnostic liar.
4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. Rom 3
You should indeed. That is why I followed Jesus to the Father. In that I dont need any man teach me nor did Jesus for God Himself is our knowledge by having His same mind. but for you you rely on a man as a sinner to teach you, mainly Paul, and you probably learned that for another man standing in a pulpit.

As for me and Jesus, God was sufficient to supply our need spiritually that you call gnostic lies from your agnostic mind.
 
Do you mean to be born to another, to him who was raised from the dead, and bear fruit for God? (Rom 7:4)

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God. (1 John 5:1)
Thats what I keep telling you -- but then you make those stu[pid remarks that I dont believe that Jesus was the Christ -- ROFLOL. Satan has a tight grip on your mind for sure.
No doubt you keep double talking -- but the stupid gnostic remarks are yours:
Gary Mac said:
I do reject redemption through Jesus ...
What part has a believer with an unbeliever? 2 Cor 6:14-16
No' you are just void of His righteousness to be like Him. If you would repent and receieve from GHod that what Jesus did, you would be like Him instead of calling Him a gnostic liar.
'I Jesus, delivered you and now send you to open their [spiritual] eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness and release from their sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified (set apart, made holy) by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:17:18
In that I dont need any man teach me nor did Jesus for God Himself is our knowledge by having His same mind. but for you you rely on a man as a sinner to teach you, mainly Paul, and you probably learned that for another man ...
God has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead. Acts 17:31
 
I am not JW and I do not know what they have to say about this or what scriptures they are looking at.
My position comes from scripture. I still have questions but. I do stick with what I read in the Bible and build doctrine upon that.
There are 10 to 12 scriptures that tell a different story from what you are saying, which is the same as what the church in general believes. So you are in the majority in your beliefs
Try to find a new testament verse that states He brought His old body back to life. You made that statement, so find that wording, or that idea and we can specifically discuss one verse at a time if you are inclined. Of note is that in the post resurrection appearances, He took different forms and no one in any appearance recognizes Him at first
FYI, did you NOT correctly read my post that you just replied to?! It CLEARLY states John 2:19-21, which states that He will RAISE ( resurrect ) His destroyed ( Crucified ) temple ( His BODY ) three days after they destroy it ( by Crucifixion )! Here it is as is -------------------

John 2:19-21
New International Version

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. ------------------------------ Now since the temple that He said He ( " I " ) would RAISE ( resurrect ) in 3 days was His BODY ( and NOT the Jewish Temple that they wrongfully though He meant ), then He ( as the 2nd divine person of the TRINITY - FSHS - ) played a part in resurrecting His own crucified Body on day three! Now do you see that FACT ( the destroyed Temple that He was talking about Raising to them in those Bible verses was His crucified BODY!
 
FYI, did you NOT correctly read my post that you just replied to?! It CLEARLY states John 2:19-21, which states that He will RAISE ( resurrect ) His destroyed ( Crucified ) temple ( His BODY ) three days after they destroy it ( by Crucifixion )! Here it is as is -------------------

John 2:19-21​

New International Version​

19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
20 They replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. ------------------------------ Now since the temple that He said He ( " I " ) would RAISE ( resurrect ) in 3 days was His BODY ( and NOT the Jewish Temple that they wrongfully though He meant ), then He ( as the 2nd divine person of the TRINITY - FSHS - ) played a part in resurrecting His own crucified Body on day three! Now do you see that FACT ( the destroyed Temple that He was talking about Raising to them in those Bible verses was His crucified BODY!
Yes, I know that verse, but for a start, obviously the different bodies they saw Him in post resurrection, were not the body He died in, nobody ever recognizes Him on first sight. So that tells us that the simple explanation of the word "raise" is not as simple as we think. Consider what you think Jesus meant by "raise" and see if that aligns with what the descriptions of Him post resurrection tell you.
So yes, His body was raised. But what does that mean and what scriptures explain it?
In 1 Corinthians Paul discusses this new body at length, explaining how different it is from the old body.
John says that no one has seen Jesus as He is. Therefore what they saw post resurrection is not Him as He is.
My best suggestion so far is that a resurrected body is created to live in the Spiritual world, but in order to let us know that He came back to life, He had to adopt some forms so He could speak to the disciples in a way they would understand.
Since we can not see the invisible spiritual world or the beings that populate it, there are most likely no words that can tell us what it is like. If you think about it, any description of heaven is metaphorical and the Father looks like an old man.
 
Yes, I know that verse, but for a start, obviously the different bodies they saw Him in post resurrection, were not the body He died in, nobody ever recognizes Him on first sight. So that tells us that the simple explanation of the word "raise" is not as simple as we think. Consider what you think Jesus meant by "raise" and see if that aligns with what the descriptions of Him post resurrection tell you.
So yes, His body was raised. But what does that mean and what scriptures explain it?
In 1 Corinthians Paul discusses this new body at length, explaining how different it is from the old body.
John says that no one has seen Jesus as He is. Therefore what they saw post resurrection is not Him as He is.
My best suggestion so far is that a resurrected body is created to live in the Spiritual world, but in order to let us know that He came back to life, He had to adopt some forms so He could speak to the disciples in a way they would understand.
Since we can not see the invisible spiritual world or the beings that populate it, there are most likely no words that can tell us what it is like. If you think about it, any description of heaven is metaphorical and the Father looks like an old man.
So true. A key to this resurrection is in 1 John 3, when one really does see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him.

Now if we look at Matt 3:16 this is exactly what 1 John 3 is saying. Jesus didnt know God nor His heaven until what? God manifested Himself in Jesus and saw God as He really is and became like Him and not before. compare the before and after that event in that mans life. It is the very same with us all if we are to be of the Father and His child as son or daughter, Jesus was His som just as we all are who has seen the very same as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

It is the same revelation that Adam had in Gen 3:22, Abraham saw Him, Moses saw Him, 120 in an upper room saw Him as He is and all of these became like Him. Jesus described his change of mind as born again, born of Gods Spirit, or mind to know what He knows about who He is and who we are in Him.

With my discussions with many here do not believe Matt 3:16 and say Jesus didnt need to be born again, which obviously he did,. we can read it. These cant see the temper of mind Jesus received from God from lack in being born of God Spirit, born again, themselves.

When the natural power of vision, as Jesus did in Matt 3:16 became devoted to Gods Holy Spirit, Spirit is the mind and the condition of it, it becomes the power of perceiving Gods will and the whole life is kept in simplicity.

The great crisis comes spiritually when a person has to emerge a bit further on than the creed one has accepted just as the creed of the Jewish temple that Jesus creed to their laws and taught even from a young age. He emerged from the laws of and conformed by obedience into the image of God starting in Matt 3:16 and until then he was teacher of their laws.

Ironic is when Jesus was born again, the very ones who reverend him as a great Rabbi even from young, are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme, a sinner against their belief system. And it is the very same scenario as we have in the creeds of denominations today. When one sees Him as He is and becomes like Him one can no longer sit in the pews for law. How many life changing sermons from a pulpit can one endure anyway. Actually denominations are not much more than establishments for enterprise. They want to hold you in the grip of their pews for that very reason just as they didnt want Jesus to be rejected out from those and tri3ed to silence him through death, which actually backfired for them. For everyone who has seen Him as Jesus did can no longer be of their laws to govern their creeds for a god.

I have seen Him as He is for the Spirit that God is does not have flesh and bone as you see me, Jesus was very clear in that with Thomas. Put your finger in his hands and side is not physical, I see it through Spirit. I cant physically put my finger in the holes in his body, but I can put my finger in those holes spiritually.
 
@rod.ney
I am not JW and I do not know what they have to say about this or what scriptures they are looking at.
My position comes from scripture. I still have questions but. I do stick with what I read in the Bible and build doctrine upon that.
There are 10 to 12 scriptures that tell a different story from what you are saying, which is the same as what the church in general believes. So you are in the majority in your beliefs
Jesus did say it was imperative John 3:3 to be born anew to see His kingdom Matt 16:28.
Try to find a new testament verse that states He brought His old body back to life. You made that statement, so find that wording, or that idea and we can specifically discuss one verse at a time if you are inclined. Of note is that in the post resurrection appearances, He took different forms and no one in any appearance recognizes Him at first
So true. A key to this resurrection is in 1 John 3, when one really does see Him as He is, ye shall be like Him. ...
He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ; 2 Cor 5
 
Jesus did say it was imperative John 3:3 to be born anew to see His kingdom Matt 16:28.
Yes, holy pure and without sin. Many here say they are sinners instead of being of Christ.

Didnt I hear you say you are a sinner instead of being of Christ who is without sin? LOL. To you that would be a gnostic lie to have Christ as your own mind, or Spirit the mind is referred to.
He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.
Yes, Holy, pure and without sin
Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.
Not for you, you still think that man was a god, one of flesh.
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Not for you, your old ways are still of sin, the new way is without sin.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ; 2 Cor 5
Just as with Jesus in Matt 3:16 God reconciled us through His Spirit. Read how He did that in Jesus in Matt 3:16. You cant relate to the same in you is all. That is why to you His ways is gnostic lies.
 
Jesus did say it was imperative John 3:3 to be born anew to see His kingdom Matt 16:28.


He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ; 2 Cor 5
yes
 
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