Whereas I'm finding it typical of any moral question addressed by Christians. There is no common agreed Christian line, just a lot of Bible quotes, condemnation and in-fighting.
Ok not bothered that there's no common ground on this.
We who follow Jesus have to decide if we're going to learn, and then obey the bible or if we're going to agree with the way the world wants us to think.
As a follower of Jesus and in my life before I came to Jesus, I've learned that the way people think in the world, it's destructive and self-centered.
This is by no means easily explained. Which is part of why I keep asking you guys to read the bible for the purpose of understanding.
If you don't actually want eternal life, that's a you thing. Jesus said that a lot of people would prefer their own ways over God's ways.
Psa 94:20-21 WEB 20 Shall the throne of wickedness have fellowship with you, which brings about
mischief by statute? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous, and
condemn the innocent blood.
It's a curious thing that this is an extremely ancient issue that is described in the bible.
As we read in Ecclesiastes....
There's nothing new under the sun.
What was, is.
Abortion is not a religious or a Biblical issue. It's a secular, public policy issue.
Curious how that works.
Psa 94:20-21 WEB 20 Shall the throne of wickedness have fellowship with you, which brings about
mischief by statute? 21 They gather themselves together against the soul of the righteous,
and condemn the innocent blood.
Sounds like you're looking to justify murder.
Ironically, the people who were slave owners used the same language you just used, to justify slavery.
As I recall, there were those in Germany who tried to do that too, with respect to the Jewish people and others who were slaughtered by the nazis.
When all Christians agree on what their faith position is, then you can bring it to the table and say " Christians believe this".
What do you think the word, Christian means?
Are you aware that it actually has a first century origin, and definition?
At the moment all you can say is "Those Christians who agree with me, believe this.
Actually, those christ-followers who study, and are learning to obey the bible think like this.
We're acutely aware that we are not among the popular crowds.
Anti-slavery people were in the minority too. Do you realize that one man, Wilberforce, stood against the British parliament to oppose slavery?
The abolition movement started with a handful of people who followed Jesus.
800 pastors in Germany opposed Hitler's efforts to destroy the Jews and others who were slaughtered.
Deitrich Bonhoeffer was among a very small group of people who realized that they had to stop Hitler at all costs. It cost him his life, at the end of a rope.
Jesus stood firm against the tyranny of sin and unrighteousness and those political power brokers killed him for it.
So, telling me that it's a political issue.... that just demonstrates that you really need to learn history.
Sin is always justified by political brokers.
The Christians who don't agree with me, don't count."
The religious beliefs that disagree with YHVH'S written word are those who will answer to YHVH.
They're entitled to their own beliefs, as are you.
Sure hope you're satisfied with the consequences of your choices, should you oppose what YHVH has explicitly stated.
I.e., if you really want to run off a Cliff, I'll try to warn you of the consequences and dangers associated with it, but in the end, you'll have to decide for yourself and then live with the consequences.
I don't wish them on anyone.
There were non-Christians and Christians on both sides of all these issues.
Indeed.
Ask the ones who support the right to murder unborn children what is the basis for their beliefs.
According to Genesis 1:26-27, God created us in his own likeness and image.
According to Genesis 9:5-6, those who commit murder will be held accountable.
According to psalm 94, those who are silent about it will give an account to God.
According to Proverbs 31:8-9, we're to give a voice to the voiceless and stand up for those who are being delivered to death.
Ask those who support abortion to read those passages and explain their support in light of them.
You can claim a victory for righteous Christianity, in fact I expect you to do so, but the claim is false.
Christ won the war at his resurrection.
Life ever since is about saving as many lives as possible, giving everyone the opportunity to engage YHVH on his terms and experience eternal life following death. So, I suppose the idea today is that there are many different skirmishes, and battles between people who love their sin and those whom God has saved from their sin, to give them enough information so they won't run off the cliff and destroy themselves.
Never. For two reasons. Firstly because genocide is an attempt to eradicate a particular ethnic and religious group, whereas every case of abortion, no matter how many of them, is an individual case with unique circumstances.
So, the destruction of hundreds of millions of a particular class of humans, from all over the world, isn't genocide...
I'm sure that the billion or so humans whose lives were stolen from them, and who were denied life, liberty and the pursuit of their own respective happiness would appreciate your opinions on that.
Perhaps you should explain it to them.
Oh.... wait.... I forgot.
You're not actually able to.
They're all dead. Their bodies were dismembered and dismantled by medical professionals.
And secondly, because no people are killed in an abortion.
Ah yes, as long as they're not actually identified as human beings.
Yep. Eerily reminiscent of the black slaves, the Jewish people, gypsies LGBTQ and disabled people in nazi Germany.
Congratulations! If you ever actually wondered if you would have complied with the nazis or slave owners, you have just given us your answer!
Isn't it nice to know that you're a perfect example of what slavers, and nazis were thinking about when it came to this question of whether or not people who are not in your clan/class/perspective are human.
The whole essence of genocide is people being killed because of who they are.
Yep.
The unborn children are being slaughtered because of who they are.
Perfect! You're catching on!
That's precisely what abortion is not.
Really? So because you, and your fellow citizens who have decided that unborn children aren't actually people, genocide isn't really happening....
Curious.
You just got done saying it's because of who they are.
Who the unborn children are....
Is unborn.
Yet, they've been alive for a few days to 9 months. The only difference is their location.
Inside the womb, instead of outside the womb.
What's the distance between the two?
Millimeters? Not even a single centimeter?
Imagine if you're leaning against a wall, and the construction worker on the other side shoots a nail or a long screw through.
Mere millimeters separate you from death.
No people, no innocence and not wholesale. Nor am I silent. You could not misrepresent me or the situation more if you tried.
No... you're quite clear about what you think.
As long as you're able to disconnect them from their humanity, they are able to be slaughtered without any reasoning.
No more than an ant or cockroach being stepped on.
It's always a great thing to see people who have no respect for human life. After all, it's not like they're actually human beings. Not really people.
At what point do you think the unhuman become people?
Birth, days, weeks, months or years after birth?
How about when they cease to be people?
70, 80, 90 years of age?
When they're no longer able to afford to live, because they didn't have enough money?
Or, maybe it's when their mental faculties fail?
As I have said, evil is a hugely over used word. It certainly doesn't apply to abortion. Nor, as I say again, am I silent.
Yet, you are silent.
You have no problem whatsoever with killing the unborn, simply because they're not actually people.
Just like black slaves, and Jewish, gypsies, LGBTQ, and disabled.... weren't people in nazi Germany and antebellum America.
Believe me, it's not something I will experience.
So you hope.
I hope you cut and pasted your Bible quotes with a minimum of effort, because every key stroke was wasted. Or not.
Not according to YHVH.
His word always achieves the purpose for which he gave it. Even if you disdain and disregard it as garbage, and insignificant.
<blame it on the 10,000 character limit>
you are more deluded than I thought.
Well, since you have made it clear that your beliefs are the only valid beliefs, I won't waste your obviously far more important time.
Have as good a life as you can now.
The day is coming when you'll beg for another chance.