Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[Newbirth]

It extends to the theocracy of Israel as well.

What extends to where??? You haven't explained how one becomes a citizen in no man's land.

Anyone can become a Jew and follow the law, provided they go through a halakhic conversion.

But not anyone can become an Israelite.Which is a descendant of the 12 tribe of Israel.

However, you have not done so. Nor are you following the 613 laws.

I never made that claim... You are the one claiming to be a Jew but undecided. You also worship an unnamed great spirit...

 

[Jewjitzu]

there are strangers that live with the Israelites that don't keep the law...
Deuteronomy 14:21
Ye shall not eat of anything that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Yes, there are several categories of stranger. A stranger that has converted is obligated in all of the laws. A stranger who cannot convert due to being unable to because of a spouse unwilling to convert with them, or unwilling to be circumcised, is not. In this specific case above, they can eat meat that has not been strangled, but is found dead by natural causes. The foreigner is a nokri that still abides by foreign gods, idol meats, etc.

I don't know and I don't care...the discussion is about natives and strangers...

You should care because you don't know the differences.

I never said they were...I just posted the scripture where God says it...your argument is with God...you seem surprised that God is going to bless all nations...

By Abraham's seed, Israel. The nations aren't blessed in themselves.

what is the land of citizenship when one is wandering in the wilderness?

The nation, not the land, grants citizenship, silly.

because they were wandering and had no fixed place of abode...

See above, silly.

I don't know and don't really care...since It is not a term I am using in my argument...

See above, silly.

bro you flat out lied and said priest only...did you not? post #1804

if you can't keep up now when I improve what will you do?

If you bothered reading Leviticus 22:10-16, anyone outside of the Priest and his household is excluded from the holy meats. Those excluded from the holy meats would be considered "strangers", newbirth. You sound pretty desperate.

See above, silly, and focus. Where are the lies? Please show it and prove that I lied, or retract your statement.

nothing to see except someone who is afraid to answer questions....

See above, silly.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Don't be shy!

Is that you? ​

JewJitzu Trailer WEB READY​

Pretty lame jokes. You can have all of the credit. I guess this is your last hoorah?

 

[GeneZ]

Pretty lame jokes. You can have all of the credit. I guess this is your last hoorah?

Does your mirror ever talk back to you? Or, does it just listen?

 

[Newbirth]

Yes, there are several categories of stranger.

I have been saying that from the get go.

A stranger that has converted is obligated in all of the laws.

so still a stranger

A stranger who cannot convert due to being unable to because of a spouse unwilling to convert with them, or unwilling to be circumcised, is not.

still a stranger also...

In this specific case above, they can eat meat that has not been strangled, but is found dead by natural causes.

does not matter still a stranger

The foreigner is a nokri that still abides by foreign gods, idol meats, etc.

that is also a stranger

You should care because you don't know the differences.

How do I know that they are all strangers And you don't?

By Abraham's seed, Israel.

Israel as a nation never blessed anyone...no one can just up and become an Israelite...a descendant of the 12 tribes...

The nations aren't blessed in themselves.

No they are blessed through the Messiah..

The nation, not the land, grants citizenship, silly.

Citizenship to where? The children of Israel were a wandering nation in the wilderness... that would make anyone who joined them a wanderer.

See above, silly.


See above, silly.

Nothing to see except your ignorance...

If you bothered reading Leviticus 22:10-16, anyone outside of the Priest and his household is excluded from the holy meats. Those excluded from the holy meats would be considered "strangers", newbirth. You sound pretty desperate.

Bro you said priest only...now you are saying not priest only... your honesty is the problem here..

See above, silly, and focus. Where are the lies? Please show it and prove that I lied, or retract your statement.

You said priest only

See above, silly.

Nothing to see except you are claiming that you didn't say priest only...

 

[GeneZ]

It extends to the theocracy of Israel as well.

Anyone can become a Jew and follow the law, provided they go through a halakhic conversion. However, you have not done so. Nor are you following the 613 laws.

Tell us, please. How many of those laws were followed by righteous Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

They were declared righteous before God before the Law was ever given!

The Law was designed to isolate God's chosen people from the Goyim nations. Satan had his nations. And, God had His one nation. The Law was not to make them righteous, but to be separated from Satan's peoples so a righteous people could have freedom. That is... Unless you can tell us that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not deemed righteous by God's sight for never following the 613 of the Law.

You break the Law all the time. For, its impossible for over two thousand year to fulfill the mandates of the Temple requirements. Its stupid. Sure, during brief periods of Israel's past when being disciplined by God for their perversity.... they were denied the Temple. But only for a relatively short period of time. Many who were dispersed by God in punishment later returned to the land and had once again a Temple to live under within their own lifetime.

But? For over 2000 years? Why does God now see the Jews as unrepentant for over 2000 years? For, the intent of dispersion was to get the Jews to repent of their wrong doing so God would return them to the Temple in the land.

I grew up a Jew. I see what those who claim to be "observant" Jews as dumb and spiritual clods. But, they are very preoccupied with themselves in their religious observances. Like a Boy Scout earning merit badges from God. Some may be very book smart. But when it comes to knowing the true nature of God? Its only dull and religious. Look at the religious Muslims today. They express the same kind of religious fervor as a religious Jew. And, they are not even speaking of the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Its why they murder when possible. But, the fervor is the same! Religion.

Book smart. But, God dumb. A minimally educated hick who has Jesus in his heart knows more about God than the highest academia established Jew. Its amazing how God makes salvation the "great equalizer."

I was born a Jew. My DNA is a Jew. But, my mind in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit is something no religious Jew can comprehend.
They can project and accuse. But, as long as they remain without the Holy Spirit they can not grasp the reality. Moses did. David did.... Isaiah did. Its really not something new in one sense. What makes it new is in what way God now gives His Spirit.

.... grace and peace.

 

[Open Heart]

What extends to where??? You haven't explained how one becomes a citizen in no man's land.

They have membership in the PEOPLE of Israel, which exists regardless of whether we have a nation state or not.

But not anyone can become an Israelite.Which is a descendant of the 12 tribe of Israel.

A convert has membership in the People of Israel, but does not have membership in any one of the twelve tribes.

I never made that claim... You are the one claiming to be a Jew but undecided. You also worship an unnamed great spirit...

Undecided about what? I'm not undecided about God -- I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The Great Spirit is simply the Lakota name for him. Jews recognize the righteous Gentile.

 

[Open Heart]

Tell us, please. How many of those laws were followed by righteous Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

They were declared righteous before God before the Law was ever given!

Because they were faithful. They obeyed God in those commands that God did give them.

You break the Law all the time.

You don't even know me!!! How can you determine this? The truth is, I break the Law only very rarely. And the standard is not perfection.

For, its impossible for over two thousand year to fulfill the mandates of the Temple requirements. Its stupid. Sure, during brief periods of Israel's past when being disciplined by God for their perversity.... they were denied the Temple. But only for a relatively short period of time. Many who were dispersed by God in punishment later returned to the land and had once again a Temple to live under within their own lifetime.

But? For over 2000 years? Why does God now see the Jews as unrepentant for over 2000 years? For, the intent of dispersion was to get the Jews to repent of their wrong doing so God would return them to the Temple in the land. The

The 2000 year disapora was due to Jews hating Jews without reason. That's a most serious of offenses. It is said that when Jews learn to love without reason, the Messiah will return and the Temple will be rebuilt.

I grew up a Jew. I see what those who claim to be "observant" Jews as dumb and spiritual clods.

You seem to be quite arrogant. You place yourself above those who are very spiritual. Not good.

 

[Open Heart]

Nope a follower of Jesus is a saint...

And a Christian.

There is only one true God and he demands that he alone be worshipped as God.

But it does matter if you are not referring to him.

I am referring to Him.

Then you are saying Tao is the God of Israel

Yes

If you are undecided then you are not sure if you are right or wrong in your beliefs also.

I think it is irrelevant whether a river has some kind of soul or not. It doesn't influence the core of my theology.

Then the great spirit is the same God of Israel and he lied to Israel...It seems like the great spirit have chosen other nations also.

Yes, the Great Spirit is the same God of Israel. No lying is involved. Jews recognize that there are righteous Gentiles that worship God.

I get what you're saying except that in the grand scheme of things that same great spirit would be the great spirit of every nation even if they made an idol to represent him...

But there is no idol.

Did the nameless great spirit come? I suppose he must be sleeping... Anyway if you are a Jew why are you calling on a nameless great spirit ? Are you not supposed to call on Yahweh?

No we are not supposed to pronounce the sacred name of the tetragrammaton, lest we use his name in vain. And even if we wanted to, the correct pronunciation is lost back in time. We usually refer to him by his titles, God, Lord, etc.

 

[Open Heart]

You seem to be saying that there are a group of people that God would deny the opportunity to follow the law...

Anyone who wishes to can convert and become a Jew by going through a halakhic conversion. "Your people shall be my people." By becoming part of the People of Israel, they circumcise and take on the covenant.

 

[Newbirth]

They have membership in the PEOPLE of Israel, which exists regardless of whether we have a nation state or not.

The people of Israel are descendant of the 12 tribes... whether you have a nation state or not.

A convert has membership in the People of Israel, but does not have membership in any one of the twelve tribes.

That is why they are called strangers

Undecided about what? I'm not undecided about God

You said that you were

-- I worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Along with the great spirit

The Great Spirit is simply the Lakota name for him.

That is your claim... Where does God say his name is the great spirit ?

Jewsws recognize the righteous Gentile.

Jews cannot even recognize the righteous among them...

 

[Jewjitzu]

Does your mirror ever talk back to you? Or, does it just listen?

Mirrors are inanimate and incapable of responses.

Monkeys on the other hand, are hard to get off your back.

 

[Newbirth]

And a Christian

Where does the scripture say that the followers are called to be a Christian? I can show you where it says we're called to be saints. Please support your argument...

I am referring to Him.

That is not the name he gave to Moses that he should be called.

Yes

If that is the case then the Jews are not the only people God revealed himself to therefore they are not special... He seems to have spoken to many nations. Is that your position?

I think it is irrelevant whether a river has some kind of soul or not.

Well it should be relevant if you have a soul like a river or a rock.

It doesn't influence the core of my theology.

It does... the idea that river and rocks have soul like humans wouldn't sit well with Jewish theology.

Yes, the Great Spirit is the same God of Israel.

The God of Israel does not teach rivers and rocks have soul.

No lying is involved.

It would be double standard...

Jews recognize that there are righteous Gentiles that worship God.

Jews have a problem being righteous themselves...as a matter of fact Jews consider other nations as dogs...

But there is no idol.

The river and the rock

No we are not supposed to pronounce the sacred name of the tetragrammaton, lest we use his name in vain.

That is hogwash...to use God's name in vain is to call on him and continue to sin...

And even if we wanted to, the correct pronunciation is lost back in time.

It does not matter God sees the heart and know the intent of man.

We usually refer to him by his titles, God, Lord, etc.

And many have the same titles... but are not the same God...So when someone says the great spirit it is not necessarily referring to YHWH...

 

[Jewjitzu]

Tell us, please. How many of those laws were followed by righteous Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

They followed what ever commands God gave them, Genesis 18:19

For I have chosen him, so that he will command his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, in order that the LORD may bring upon Abraham what He has promised.”

And that's why they were righteous.

They were declared righteous before God before the Law was ever given!

See above.

The Law was designed to isolate God's chosen people from the Goyim nations. Satan had his nations. And, God had His one nation. The Law was not to make them righteous, but to be separated from Satan's peoples so a righteous people could have freedom. That is... Unless you can tell us that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were not deemed righteous by God's sight for never following the 613 of the Law.

See above.

You break the Law all the time. For, its impossible for over two thousand year to fulfill the mandates of the Temple requirements. Its stupid. Sure, during brief periods of Israel's past when being disciplined by God for their perversity.... they were denied the Temple. But only for a relatively short period of time. Many who were dispersed by God in punishment later returned to the land and had once again a Temple to live under within their own lifetime..

How did Daniel manage without a temple?

But? For over 2000 years? Why does God now see the Jews as unrepentant for over 2000 years? For, the intent of dispersion was to get the Jews to repent of their wrong doing so God would return them to the Temple in the land.

All in God's timing.

I grew up a Jew. I see what those who claim to be "observant" Jews as dumb and spiritual clods. But, they are very preoccupied with themselves in their religious observances. Like a Boy Scout earning merit badges from God. Some may be very book smart. But when it comes to knowing the true nature of God? Its only dull and religious. Look at the religious Muslims today. They express the same kind of religious fervor as a religious Jew. And, they are not even speaking of the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Its why they murder when possible. But, the fervor is the same! Religion.

You grew up non observant and had no idea what Judaism truly is. Even now you don't.

Book smart. But, God dumb. A minimally educated hick who has Jesus in his heart knows more about God than the highest academia established Jew. Its amazing how God makes salvation the "great equalizer."

Really? Well you've failed miserably.

I was born a Jew. My DNA is a Jew. But, my mind in the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit is something no religious Jew can comprehend.
They can project and accuse. But, as long as they remain without the Holy Spirit they can not grasp the reality. Moses did. David did.... Isaiah did. Its really not something new in one sense. What makes it new is in what way God now gives His Spirit.

.... grace and peace.

And the spirit leads one to Torah observance. You have a different spirit.

 

[Open Heart]

The people of Israel are descendant of the 12 tribes... whether you have a nation state or not.

That is why they are called strangers

They are strangers that have become Jews, much like Ruth. I feel like we are playing "Here we go 'round the Mulberry Bush.

You said that you were

No. The only thing I said I was undecided about was whether rocks and rivers have souls. This is an irrelevant question, however. It doesn't impact whether I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or whether I honor my covenant.

Along with the great spirit

That is your claim... Where does God say his name is the great spirit ?

It does not matter if others call him by another name. There is only one God, the Creator of the Universe. If you worship him, you ARE worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even if you are unaware.

Jews cannot even recognize the righteous among them...

Sure we can. The Rebbe, for example, was a righteous man.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I have been saying that from the get go.

Really? Show where you did.

so still a stranger

A nokri is a foreigner who follows foreign gods and not within the gates, inclusion of Israel. They eat unclean idol foods, bugs, strangled animals as you and your teachers do.

still a stranger also...

See above.

does not matter still a stranger

See above.

that is also a stranger

See above.

How do I know that they are all strangers And you don't?

One category is ger the other nokri. Learn the difference.

Israel as a nation never blessed anyone...no one can just up and become an Israelite...a descendant of the 12 tribes...

Well, we know that no one has benefited by your country or culture, right newbirth? You're very quiet on this point. And we know that those that bless Israel are blessed, and those that curse...

Again, becoming part of the people of Israel is spelled out in Isaiah 56:1-8.

No they are blessed through the Messiah..

Nothing says that in Tanakh.

Citizenship to where? The children of Israel were a wandering nation in the wilderness... that would make anyone who joined them a wanderer.

Citizenship is not limited to land. You're quite ridiculous in your argument.

How are nomadic peoples in Africa, Asia, the Middle East, jungles, etc., citizens of their clans, or tribes?

Nothing to see except your ignorance...

See above.

Bro you said priest only...now you are saying not priest only... your honesty is the problem here..

No, newbirth. The context is clear. Why are you being so silly?

You said priest only

Nothing to see except you are claiming that you didn't say priest only...

You're so silly. You're back to swallowing the gnat, camel, and everything else unclean.

 

[Open Heart]

Where does the scripture say that the followers are called to be a Christian? I can show you where it says we're called to be saints. Please support your argument...

1 Peter 4:16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

That is not the name he gave to Moses that he should be called.

Mhm. Abraham didn't know him by that name either.

If that is the case then the Jews are not the only people God revealed himself to therefore they are not special... He seems to have spoken to many nations. Is that your position?

It is one thing to have an intuition about a Creator. It is another for God to speak to your people, giving them a covenant.

Well it should be relevant if you have a soul like a river or a rock.

Nah

It does... the idea that river and rocks have soul like humans wouldn't sit well with Jewish theology.

The God of Israel does not teach rivers and rocks have soul.

It would be double standard...

Jews have a problem being righteous themselves...as a matter of fact Jews consider other nations as dogs...

The river and the rock

If the river and the rock have a soul, it is not like that of a human. And the river and the rock are not deities, nor are they idols. They are not worshiped -- simply respected. This respect is something I see missing from Western mentality.

That is hogwash...to use God's name in vain is to call on him and continue to sin...

It does not matter God sees the heart and know the intent of man.

One can be sincere, but be sincerely wrong. One can objectively sin, regardless of the intent of one's heart.

And many have the same titles... but are not the same God...So when someone says the great spirit it is not necessarily referring to YHWH...

If they are referring to the Creator of the universe, then they are referring to the one and only God that exists.

 

[Newbirth]

They are strangers that have become Jews, much like Ruth.

But are still strangers... they are not descendant of the 12 tribes of israel.

I feel like we are playing "Here we go 'round the Mulberry Bush.

You are playing... joining a religion does not make one a descendant of Israel.

No. The only thing I said I was undecided about was whether rocks and rivers have souls.

That shows you are undecided if you are a person..a rock or a river.

This is an irrelevant question, however.

It is very relevant, it tells me what you believe... and what you are unsure about.

It doesn't impact whether I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or whether I honor my covenant.

It does impact...it proves that you don't believe God. You think He chose other nations to reveal himself as great spirit

It does not matter if others call him by another name.

It does... you are claiming that he goes around telling people to call him by different names.

There is only one God, the Creator of the Universe. If you worship him, you ARE worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, even if you are unaware.

Some people build idols and say that is the representation of the creator of the universe. Would they be worshipping the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob?... According to your understanding they are, because God didn't tell them not to make any images of him...he only told the Jews that.

Sure we can. The Rebbe, for example, was a righteous man.

Not sure what you are babbling here... what Rebbe?

 

[Newbirth]

1 Peter 4:16 However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name.

That was a mocking term... can you not read...suffer as a Christian...

Mhm. Abraham didn't know him by that name either.

No he didn't what is your point? Abraham was not a descendant of Israel...

It is one thing to have an intuition about a Creator. It is another for God to speak to your people, giving them a covenant.

What is your point here? It is not as if Israel ever kept their end of the covenant

If the river and the rock have a soul, it is not like that of a human. And the river and the rock are not deities, nor are they idols. They are not worshiped -- simply respected. This respect is something I see missing from Western mentality.

The idea that a river or rock having a soul is contrary to Jewish teaching... Obviously you are following another God

One can be sincere, but be sincerely wrong. One can objectively sin, regardless of the intent of one's heart.

So what does that have to do with God knowing you heart???

If they are referring to the Creator of the universe, then they are referring to the one and only God that exists.

Even if they worship him in the form of an Idol...?

 

[Open Heart]

But are still strangers... they are not descendant of the 12 tribes of israel.

They have become part of the People of Israel. How do you think Ruth was permitted a Levirate marriage? Because she had become a Jew.

You are playing... joining a religion does not make one a descendant of Israel.

Conversion is more than just to a religion. Indeed the word religion doesn't even occur in the Tanakh -- there is no concept of religion. There is only becoming part of the People of Israel and taking on the covenant as part of that People.

That shows you are undecided if you are a person..a rock or a river.

Oh, no. I know that I am a person. YOu are pretty desperate to make this stuff up.

It is very relevant, it tells me what you believe... and what you are unsure about.

It does impact...it proves that you don't believe God. You think He chose other nations to reveal himself as great spirit

It does... you are claiming that he goes around telling people to call him by different names.

God revealed himself to Noah, did he not? And Noah was not a Jew, not part of Israel. Nor did Noah know God by the tetragrammaton name. Your arguments have no substance.

Some people build idols and say that is the representation of the creator of the universe. Would they be worshipping the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob?... According to your understanding they are, because God didn't tell them not to make any images of him...he only told the Jews that.

But I am talking about the Lakota, who do NOT make idols.

Not sure what you are babbling here... what Rebbe?

Rebbe Menachem Mendel Schneerson, of Lubavitcher fame, of blessed memory. Some of the Lubavitchers thought he may have been the Messiah, but he died.

Menachem Mendel Schneerson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org