Choice

Reformedguy said:
Lol, why not say you don't want to answer.

He sees it all in the time? What does that mean?
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It is obvious that you have lost the argument, and you know it, but don’t want to admit it, and it is pointless to continue with that discussion.
 
TomFL said:
Not found anywhere in scripture

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
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Yes, God is saving the believer who God has quickened out of death. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
zerinus said:
You err. That is the Calvinistic definition of grace, which is not biblical. In the biblical definition, grace is not “unmerited”:
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Wrong

That was an online dictionary

You err

Grace is contrary to merit

Grace definition

(in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

Romans 4:1-16 (KJV)
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,



zerinus said:
James 4:

6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

1 Peter 5:

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

Proverbs 3:

34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

According to these verses, being “humble” and “lowly” is one qualification for receiving grace. “Pride” doesn’t bring you grace, not in a million years.

Genesis 6:

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Psalm 84:

11 For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly.

So being righteous and upright is another qualification for receiving grace. Therefore grace is not “unmerited,” according to the biblical definition. Humility, faithfulness, uprightness etc. are the qualifications. I suggest you give up on your abominable heresy of Calvinism, and start believing the Bible. Your Calvinism is leading you far astray.
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Sorry but confound condition and merit

Why did Christ die if you could merit salvation

You are completely unbiblical here

zerinus said:
And as far as Romans 4:1-16 is concerned, being humble, walking uprightly, not sinning, and “believing” or having “faith” etc. are not “works”. Get that into your head for a change
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Maybe you should get it into your head I stated nothing at all about faith, believing etc are works

You seem to have invented that

However merit and reward are synonymous concepts

and such is denied in verses 4-5

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

online definition

Merit

  1. the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
So your claim of merit is unbiblical
 
SeventhDay said:
Yes, God is saving the believer who God has quickened out of death. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
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They believe first and then are made alive

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
SeventhDay said:
Yes, God is saving the believer who God has quickened out of death. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
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According to scripture God is saving quickening out of death those who believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
TomFL said:
Wrong

That was an online dictionary

You err

Grace is contrary to merit

Grace definition

(in Christian belief) the free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

Romans 4:1-16 (KJV)
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,




Sorry but confound condition and merit

Why did Christ die if you could merit salvation

You are completely unbiblical here



Maybe you should get it into your head I stated nothing at all about faith, believing etc are works

You seem to have invented that

However merit and reward are synonymous concepts

and such is denied in verses 4-5

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

online definition

Merit

  1. the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.
So your claim of merit is unbiblical
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Since we disagree so often, I want to express a point of agreement. We both completely agree that grace is the unmerited favor of God. I would also go to Romans 4 in a similar manner as you have done above.
 
His clay said:
Since we disagree so often, I want to express a point of agreement. We both completely agree that grace is the unmerited favor of God. I would also go to Romans 4 in a similar manner as you have done above.
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Great

its good to agree

It is probably just the subject matter as I am sure there are many things we can agree on
 
TomFL said:
According to scripture God is saving quickening out of death those who believe

1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Click to expand...
Interesting how faith comes to those who are quickened out of death by the grace of God is it not? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
Sethproton said:
the faith which is entrusting yourself to God, is the means by which we receive Christ
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God granting us faith comes first and that faith is given to new spiritual creations quickened out of death not to the old man dead in trespasses and sins and buried with Christ in his death. Just as Jesus rose out of death so does the new spiritual man with Christ. God is not saving the old man but rather has put him away for good!

2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
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God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
SeventhDay said:
God granting us faith comes first and that faith is given to new spiritual creations quickened out of death not to the old man dead in trespasses and sins and buried with Christ in his death. Just as Jesus rose out of death so does the new spiritual man with Christ. God is not saving the old man but rather has put him away for good!



God bless you,

SeventhDay
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Any scripture to support the idea that faith is given to a new creation?
 
Sethproton said:
Any scripture to support the idea that faith is given to a new creation?
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Meditate on the verses I gave you!

Who are they which live? Who are they living for? Are all alive? If not then how can they live for Christ? Take time to study those scriptures and may God spiritually guide you.

It is those quickened out of death which means they who are spiritually alive are granted faith to do what pleases God. The dead can not do that and the new spiritual man must reckon the old man dead.

2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
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Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others
.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
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God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
SeventhDay said:
Meditate on the verses I gave you!

Who are they which live? Who are they living for? Are all alive? If not then how can they live for Christ? Take time to study those scriptures and may God spiritually guide you.

It is those quickened out of death which means they who are spiritually alive are granted faith to do what pleases God. The dead can not do that and the new spiritual man must reckon the old man dead.





God bless you,

SeventhDay
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You are asking me to meditate on your logic. I am asking for specifics in in scripture
 
Sethproton said:
You are asking me to meditate on your logic. I am asking for specifics in in scripture
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I have given what you have asked for and I am asking you to let the Spirit guide you and to use the logic God has given you. God wants you to reason with him.

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
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Now, if one reasons as a sinner dead in trespasses and sins and is not one who is risen out of death who have their sins remitted and are like wool then they can not reason with God.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
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You can not reason with God if you are dead in trespasses and sins and thus reckon the old man dead and live as the new spiritual creation you are washed in the blood of Jesus. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
SeventhDay said:
I have given what you have asked for and I am asking you to let the Spirit guide you and to use the logic God has given you. God wants you to reason with him.



Now, if one reasons as a sinner dead in trespasses and sins and is not one who is risen out of death who have their sins remitted and are like wool then they can not reason with God.



You can not reason with God if you are dead in trespasses and sins and thus reckon the old man dead and live as the new spiritual creation you are washed in the blood of Jesus. :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
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No. You give scripture that does not say what you say and then you think somehow people will get the same conclusions you get despite the fact you do not want to explain where you get your ideas from.
I don't understand why a Christian would make up things about scripture. I say "make up" because you consistently refuse to show how you draw your ideas. I would encourage you to stick to what scripture says and stop fantacizng about hidden meanings.
 
Sethproton said:
No. You give scripture that does not say what you say and then you think somehow people will get the same conclusions you get despite the fact you do not want to explain where you get your ideas from.
I don't understand why a Christian would make up things about scripture. I say "make up" because you consistently refuse to show how you draw your ideas. I would encourage you to stick to what scripture says and stop fantacizng about hidden meanings.
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How come you are not understanding what the scriptures say and can not prove your accusations? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
SeventhDay said:
Interesting how faith comes to those who are quickened out of death by the grace of God is it not? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
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You got it backwards

Faith before being made alive

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
 
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