The most important doctrine in Scripture- The bodily Resurrection of Jesus !

4Him said:
Jesus said FLESH and bone. Now, if there is some different kind of human that you know of and we don't, feel free to share that info.



YOUR BODY....redemption of your BODY produces a BODY.



That's not even remotely what the verse says.
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Did you read the verse? You are claiming it has something to do with after we die? Where does the verse speak of death? What gives you the idea it has to do with after death?

The human body I know has flesh and blood. No living human I know has flesh without blood. So what body are you talking about?
And yes, a body is produced. No argument. It just is not a flesh and blood body
 
SeventhDay said:
Even if a mortal body does not corrupt and there is no scriptures to state that that is so a spiritual body does not corrupt.
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A glorified body, as Jesus has. doesn't corrupt.

SeventhDay said:
Further more we know that one does not inherit heaven in a body of flesh and blood where incorruptible can take place.
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Again, you don't understand what INCORRUPTABLE means.
 
SeventhDay said:
Even so Jesus stating he was not a ghost and that the body he was in was flesh and bone does not mean that Jesus rose in a spiritual body
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Right, it's because He rose in a PHYSICAL body.

SeventhDay said:
and does not mean he though he appeared in a flesh and bone body that he was not a spiritual body.
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Flesh and bone is not spiritual.


See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.”
 
Sethproton said:
Did you read the verse? You are claiming it has something to do with after we die? Where does the verse speak of death? What gives you the idea it has to do with after death?
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What on earth are you talking about?

Sethproton said:
The human body I know has flesh and blood. No living human I know has flesh without blood. So what body are you talking about?
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See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.”
Sethproton said:
And yes, a body is produced. No argument. It just is not a flesh and blood body
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See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.”
 
Greetings again Sethproton,
Sethproton said:
Think about this. John is talking. He saw Jesus after He resurrected. He saw Thomas put his fingers in the holes, yet here John is saying he has never seen Jesus as He is. What did John see? Why wasn't that Jesus as He is?
Add to that thought that John says here he does not know what we will be? Why doesn't He if the resurrected Jesus already appeared to him? Wouldn't John teach that we will be like Jesus he saw post resurrection?
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Possibly I have not properly considered the full teaching of 1 John 3:1-3, but I suggest that even though they had encountered Jesus after his resurrection, the full implication of what that will be like for us is yet to be experienced. We will be changed and will be given some powers, of perception and other things. I believe that 1 John 3:1-3 will involve more than physical appearance, but aspects of the mind. I believe that Jesus was immortal during the 40 days, but he was able to withhold the physical glory that Jesus revealed to Paul when Paul was on the way to Damascus.
Sethproton said:
A question to consider. Why would it be needed for Jesus to have a human body? What purpose would there be for that? What would be changed about heaven and us, if we were not going to live in eternal bodies of flesh?
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One of the problems with a thread like this, is that the participants have many other teachings that they believe. We have a SDA, a JW, and I am a Christadelphian, and these three do not believe in immortal souls going to heaven at death. But even here the SDAs and JWs do believe something similar, that the SDAs will go to heaven when Jesus returns, possibly leaving their body behind, or it is dissolved. Similarly with the JWs, they believe something similar with Jesus and the 144,000, while the rest of the JWs will be resurrected and live on the earth. Christadelphians and myself believe that they will be resurrected, firstly in their mortal body, and if found faithful at the Judgement, our body will be changed to immortality, not replaced. We do not believe that we go to heaven, but believe that we will be upon the earth and interacting with the mortal nation of Israel and the mortal nations. As such they need a body, even if equivalent to the body revealed when angels appeared.

Perhaps one question, what is the difference between your view, and the common view that man's immortal soul goes to heaven at death? What in reality is the resurrection?

Kind regards
Trevor
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Sethproton,

Possibly I have not properly considered the full teaching of 1 John 3:1-3, but I suggest that even though they had encountered Jesus after his resurrection, the full implication of what that will be like for us is yet to be experienced. We will be changed and will be given some powers, of perception and other things. I believe that 1 John 3:1-3 will involve more than physical appearance, but aspects of the mind. I believe that Jesus was immortal during the 40 days, but he was able to withhold the physical glory that Jesus revealed to Paul when Paul was on the way to Damascus.

One of the problems with a thread like this, is that the participants have many other teachings that they believe. We have a SDA, a JW, and I am a Christadelphian, and these three do not believe in immortal souls going to heaven at death. But even here the SDAs and JWs do believe something similar, that the SDAs will go to heaven when Jesus returns, possibly leaving their body behind, or it is dissolved. Similarly with the JWs, they believe something similar with Jesus and the 144,000, while the rest of the JWs will be resurrected and live on the earth. Christadelphians and myself believe that they will be resurrected, firstly in their mortal body, and if found faithful at the Judgement, our body will be changed to immortality, not replaced. We do not believe that we go to heaven, but believe that we will be upon the earth and interacting with the mortal nation of Israel and the mortal nations. As such they need a body, even if equivalent to the body revealed when angels appeared.

Perhaps one question, what is the difference between your view, and the common view that man's immortal soul goes to heaven at death? What in reality is the resurrection?

Kind regards
Trevor
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I have to tell you how much i appreciate your thoughtful response. obviously you are listening even though you disagree. Rare here, probably rare everywhere.
I think my view is the same as the common in this instance. Our soul goes to be with Jesus.
But where I differ from the church in general is that I do not see the Bible showing any examples or teaching that our new body is the old body, but glorified. In fact the phrase "glorified body" is not in the Bible as far as I know. It is a term coined to express what the church thinks will happen: God will transform the old body and fit it for eternity.
 
Dizerner said:
The point seems kind of unimportant, certainly not a salvation issue.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself. (Phi 3:20-21 NKJ)

I personally have no desire for having the same body or any body at all, but this does seem to make some causal link from our old body to our new one and use the description "glorious." Maybe the purpose of the link is just to show the redemptive connection, or that a body in and of itself is not necessarily inferior or unholy.
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Does God have a spiritual body or a flesh body? :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
Dizerner said:
"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luk 24:39)

:)
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Out of context!

A ghost does not have flesh does it? Jesus did appear as a flesh body however Jesus is a spiritual body despite his appearances!

I ask you is Jesus God?

Is God Spirit? Is the Spirit of Christ flesh?

Is Christ that is in us which is the Spirit in us flesh?

Is the church body a spiritual body?

Is the church joined to one Spirit?

Is a quickening Spirit flesh?

There is a natural body and a spiritual body Which body is flesh?

There is an earthly and heavenly body. Which body is flesh?

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
SeventhDay said:
Out of context!

A ghost does not have flesh does it? Jesus did appear as a flesh body however Jesus is a spiritual body despite his appearances!

I ask you is Jesus God?

Is God Spirit? Is the Spirit of Christ flesh?

Is Christ that is in us which is the Spirit in us flesh?

Is the church body a spiritual body?

Is the church joined to one Spirit?

Is a quickening Spirit flesh?

There is a natural body and a spiritual body Which body is flesh?

There is an earthly and heavenly body. Which body is flesh?

God bless you,

SeventhDay
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For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2John 7.

"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luk 24:39)
 
Carbon said:
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2John 7.

"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." (Luk 24:39)
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No comment! :)

God bless you,

SeventhDay
 
Dizerner said:
The point seems kind of unimportant, certainly not a salvation issue.

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself. (Phi 3:20-21 NKJ)

I personally have no desire for having the same body or any body at all, but this does seem to make some causal link from our old body to our new one and use the description "glorious." Maybe the purpose of the link is just to show the redemptive connection, or that a body in and of itself is not necessarily inferior or unholy.
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As far as the new body, think about the verse where the dead are under the altar yearning for a new body. It does seem important.
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Sethproton,

I believe that we die and return to the dust awaiting the resurrection.

Yes, I agree. The old is not left behind, replaced or dissolved, but it is changed.

Kind regards
Trevor
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There is no verse I am aware of that states this directly: "The old body will be transformed" We do have the verse translated "we will be changed" But it is of interest that the word does not mean transform, but exchange. The Greek word is used in the Bible to change clothes or exchange money. WE do not read that to mean our money or clothing was transformed, but exchanged.
It occurs to me that a person might think that because we already know that we are transformed, that must be what the verse means. But what other verse teaches this transformation? Where is that verse? I do not think it exists. That doctrine comes from the verse that says we will be changed, using the Greek word for exchange.
 
Greetings again Sethproton,
Sethproton said:
We do have the verse translated "we will be changed" But it is of interest that the word does not mean transform, but exchange.
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I am not an expert on Greek words, and rely on a few resources. I am thinking of two references, and I have added the two different Greek words that are translated "changed" in the KJV. Perhaps you could give an explanation of the meaning of each of these two words.

Philippians 3:20–21 (KJV): 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Strongs #G3345 metaschematizo

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV): Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Strongs #G236 allasso

Kind regards
Trevor
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Sethproton,

I am not an expert on Greek words, and rely on a few resources. I am thinking of two references, and I have added the two different Greek words that are translated "changed" in the KJV. Perhaps you could give an explanation of the meaning of each of these two words.

Philippians 3:20–21 (KJV): 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Strongs #G3345 metaschematizo

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV): Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Strongs #G236 allasso

Kind regards
Trevor
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I have to run to church, but I will get back afterwards. The one thing that I would mention about Phil 3:21 is that what is changed is "the body of our condition" and it is in understanding that phrase, that we understand the verse. But I will return
 
TrevorL said:
Greetings again Sethproton,

I am not an expert on Greek words, and rely on a few resources. I am thinking of two references, and I have added the two different Greek words that are translated "changed" in the KJV. Perhaps you could give an explanation of the meaning of each of these two words.

Philippians 3:20–21 (KJV): 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Strongs #G3345 metaschematizo

1 Corinthians 15:51 (KJV): Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Strongs #G236 allasso

Kind regards
Trevor
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TrevorL said:
The word in the NAS "condition" is defined:
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  1. Lowness, low estate
  2. spiritual abasement, leading one to perceive and lament his (moral) littleness and guilt

As I was saying, what is changed in Phil 3, is our estate. Paul calls it the "body of our...condition(estate)" So the word body there, which is soma, is not our physical body, but a metaphor for the situation we are in before coming to Christ: the body of our...estate is changed to be a spiritual one.
 
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