The foundation of all salvation.

Thank you for admitting the trickery involved by anti-Calvinists.

You have spoken more than once about engaging in "Frankenstein-ism", combining a person's beliefs with something they don't believe, and creating a "Frankenstein" variant straw-man that nobody believes.

You are doing PRECISELY that.

You are ASSUMING that "regeneration" is the same as "eternal life", and projecting that onto our beliefs, to falsely CREATE an error that doesn't otherwise exist. You have created a "Frankenstein" monster that doesn't exist and that nobody believes.

Please provide a BIBLICAL CITATION which states, "regeneration is identical to eternal life", or "born-again is identical to eternal life". If not, then stop misrepresenting Calvinists.
You have a couple of problems

The first being Calvinism teaches the unbelievers is dead and cannot believe

John teaches one must first believe then one receives life

second you position requires one first have life before they can get life

however the bible teaches without faith in Christ you have no life


John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.




John 6:53 (KJV)
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Wordsearch Search results for: "see life"
John 3:36 (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

third

regeneration is the impartation of new life

Regeneration

It is the act of God whereby He renews the spiritual condition of a sinner. It is a spiritual change brought about by the work of the Holy Spirit so that the person then possesses new life–eternal life.



REGENERATING (Titus 3:5)

Although the word regeneration is used only twice in the Bible (Titus 3:5, where it refers to the new birth, and Mt 19:28 where it refers to the millennial kingdom), the concept of being born again is found in other passages, notably John 3. Technically, it is God’s act of begetting eternal life in the one who believes in Christ.

Charles Caldwell Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972).

(6) spiritual or eternal life, a state of regeneration or renewal in holiness and fellowship with God (John 3:15–16, 36; 5:24; 6:47); (7) the life that is in Christ and God—divine life itself (John 1:4; 1 John 1:1–2; 5:11).

Walter A. Elwell, Evangelical Dictionary of Theology: Second Edition (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2001), 394.

c) Eternal life, which begins not after death, but immediately upon the regeneration of the sinner, as all life has its beginning in birth. John 3:14, 15, 1 John 4:9.

Otto Thelemann, An Aid to the Heidelberg Catechism, trans. M. Peters (Reading, PA: James I. Good, D. D, Publisher, 1896), 154.

3824 παλιγγενεσία, παλινγενεσία [paliggenesia /pal·ing·ghen·es·ee·ah/] n f. From 3825 and 1078; TDNT 1:686; TDNTA 117; GK 4098 and 4100; Two occurrences; AV translates as “regeneration” twice. 1 new birth, reproduction, renewal, recreation, regeneration. 1A hence renovation, regeneration, the production of a new life consecrated to God

Succinctly stated, to regenerate means “to impart life.” Regeneration is the act whereby God imparts life to the one who believes.
Moody Handbook of theology

In this sense of the word regeneration may be defined as that act of God by which the principle of the new life is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy.
Berkhoff
 
Why do they teach it in one thread then deny it in another?
Of course part of it is that they say regeneration is before faith, as if regneration does not mean new life
It is the only way Calvinism survives

Calvinist teach regeneration is new life at Col 2:12,13 and Eph 2:5-8

and deny it at John 20:31 and other other passages
 
.
So you believe the logical sequence is: first there is regeneration, then afterwards faith, then afterwards eternal life?
He has to invent multiple occasions for life

and pick and chose how he wants to define life based upon the needs of his theological system

One must have life in order to obtain life in his view

and contradict scripture which shows without faith one has no life

John 3:36 (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 6:53 (KJV)
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
 
And what’s really bad is, by him teaching such as truth, it’s claiming this is what God has said. He should keep the third commandment in mind.
Lets see

John 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Seems you are the one with the problem and should keep the commandments in memory
 
It’s salvation by works, as plain as the nose on your face.
More evidence your theology is not founded on the bible

Romans 4:3-5 (KJV)
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

faith is not a work
 
With a side of choice meats (conditional election) thrown in.
Lets see

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

In him that is in Christ

That is a condition

Seems having a biblical argument is replaced with mocking

That seems to be a typical pattern
 
Exactly Carbon, it always perplexes me that fallen mankind thinks that have something to offer God! That they possess some power of their own to cooperate with God in their Salvation. Our Salvation has always been Monergistic; God doing what we could not, this is the good news for the ungodly!

4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
That appears to be somewhat confused

God saves He does that all by himself

Man believes that is what God asks him to do. God does not do it for him

Salvation is God's doing

Faith man's responsibility

you confound the two as one
 
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 1 John 5:12.

It is impossible for man to engage in any saving good unless there is a living bond between them and Him who declared:
Apart from Me you can do nothing. John 15:5.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. Romans 8:9.

This goodness that some people claim by faith of the natural man is unbiblical and nonsense.

It is the mystical union through regeneration, which gives the gift of faith, and maintains faith, hope and love. it is out of the fullness of Christ that we even receive grace for grace.
For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. John 1:16.
You have a problem here interpreting scripture according to context

Having Christ refers to believing on him

1 John 5:10-12 (KJV)
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

so if one does not believe on the son one does not have life

again refuting the Calvinist position that one must have life before he can believe
 
Thank you for admitting the trickery involved by anti-Calvinists.

You have spoken more than once about engaging in "Frankenstein-ism", combining a person's beliefs with something they don't believe, and creating a "Frankenstein" variant straw-man that nobody believes.

You are doing PRECISELY that.

You are ASSUMING that "regeneration" is the same as "eternal life", and projecting that onto our beliefs, to falsely CREATE an error that doesn't otherwise exist. You have created a "Frankenstein" monster that doesn't exist and that nobody believes.

Please provide a BIBLICAL CITATION which states, "regeneration is identical to eternal life", or "born-again is identical to eternal life". If not, then stop misrepresenting Calvinists.
Let us clarify terms, because they seem to be handled without care. Let us get more specific.
No, regeneration does not mean new life
No, born again does not mean new life
Both of those are the means of new life

No one has intended to teach that regneration is new life, but that it produces life
No one has intended to teach that born again is new life, but that it produces life.

In our chats we have been sloppy, so let us clean up and use these words correctly.
 
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False.
Again.



Here is what he wrote:

"The way I see it, we do need the Holy Spirit to produce faith, but if you had regeneration before faith, you wouldn't need faith to be regenerated, faith would be unrelated to regeneration, and it would have nothing do with actually becoming saved. Surely we can see that faith is connected to becoming saved, so the only conclusion is that faith is instrumental towards and not a product of regeneration."

And you can't get that from John 20:31.
Sorry.

Again you have multiple problems

1 Calvinism teaches the unbeliever is dead and cannot believe until life is imparted

The bible (John 20:31) teaches you must believe before you can have life

just the reverse

Further it also shows without faith one does not have life

You turn such verses on their head and necessitate one does have life without faith

Still Further Calvinists routinely appeal to Col 2:12,13 and Eph 2:5-8 and quickening (made alive as regeneration)

So your objection is rather selectively and based upon the needs of a theology

further those two passages also teach that faith precedes regeneration

In Eph 2:5 regeneration - quickening bein made alive is referred to as salvation

Salvation we know from verse 8 is through faith

Col 2 presents two further proofs in that our being raised with Christ is through faith and the fact remission of sin precedes regeneration and we know without faith one does not receive remission of sin

Your positi0on is full of contradictions
 
That appears to be somewhat confused

God saves He does that all by himself

Man believes that is what God asks him to do. God does not do it for him

Salvation is God's doing

Faith man's responsibility

you confound the two as one
Tom I do not like debating with you. But I'll indulge you this one time. So is Faith the root of our Salvation?
 
Tom I do not like debating with you. But I'll indulge you this one time. So is Faith the root of our Salvation?
Where did i state any such thing ?

TomFL said:
That appears to be somewhat confused

God saves He does that all by himself

Man believes that is what God asks him to do. God does not do it for him

Salvation is God's doing

Faith man's responsibility

you confound the two as one

no grace is the root of our salvation


it is God's grace that He saves those that believe


1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
 
Exactly Carbon, it always perplexes me that fallen mankind thinks that have something to offer God!

Maybe it's because you forgot you believe that God as first caused of all effects unconditionally meticulously predetermined ie gifted them to think that way? That is it's really not of their own works but God's?

It's not perplexing, right?
 
Maybe it's because you forgot you believe that God as first caused of all effects unconditionally meticulously predetermined ie gifted them to think that way? That is it's really not of their own works but God's?

It's not perplexing, right?
That is the conundrum Calvinism faces

They want to claim that God determines all but then they want to deny that God determines that which is inconvenient for their theology
 
Lets see

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

In him that is in Christ

That is a condition

Seems having a biblical argument is replaced with mocking

That seems to be a typical pattern
There are no conditions given here. This verse is descriptive not prescriptive, Understand the difference?
 
That is the conundrum Calvinism faces

They want to claim that God determines all but then they want to deny that God determines that which is inconvenient for their theology
I'm wondering whether many Calvinists really believe some sort of molinism/neo-molinism and don't know it.
 
There are no conditions given here. This verse is descriptive not prescriptive, Understand the difference?
In Christ is a condition

and one is not in Christ until one believes

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

that is a condition


you remain in error
 
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